![]() | All Advertisers |
| Member Services Directory | Classifieds | Reviews | Jobs | Deal Zone | Merchandise | Marketplace | Books, DVDs & Gadgets | Video Vault | Tips & Techniques |
| |||||||
New Reply | Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| | #1 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,525
Thread Starter | Revamping my live room: live and roomy, or tight and dry I'm in the process of renovating my studio. Primarily I'm working on converting one of my bigger rooms into a control room. But while I'm tearing everything apart, I'm starting to think about tweaking the sound of my live room a bit. I've had some discussions with Glenn from GIK Acoustics about how I should approach the room, but it would be great to get some other people's thoughts as well. The live room is currently about 18x21 with slightly sloping ceilings that average about 11 feet. There is a mix of absorptive and diffusive/reflective acoustic treatment in the room currently, but the room seems to have a bit of a midrange honk in the 500-700Hz range that is building up across my tracks in an unpleasant way. I should add that the ceiling is covered with acoustic ceiling tile for better or worse. I inherited the room that way--I would never put that crap up. I put a coat of paint on the ceiling tile this past weekend in an attempt to restore some high frequency response. My question is this: For a room of this size and volume that is primarily used to record rock music, would it be functionally better to have a well controlled, tight sounding room with signficant treatment, or would it be more constructive to have a mostly untreated, boomy, live room? Ideally I'd love my room to have a nice live ambience to it, but maybe it's just not possible given the volume of the room. Am I better off making it slightly drier and more dead than I would prefer, but with a flatter, more pleasing tonality? Anyone have an strategies or tips for getting rid of midrange honk in a room without destroying the ambience? thanks, Brad
__________________ plotagainstrachel.bandcamp.com Little Red Wagon Studios How to integrate your analog tape deck with your DAW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bswx5...eature=channel |
| | |
| | #2 |
| Lives for gear | Its not too expensive to hire someone to come over to take a look at your room and give you some suggestions. I recently had Wes Lachot (www.weslachot.com) take a look at my place and I learned a ton about the space (and that my control room couldnt be more flawed... ugh). In my case I've decided to just have him design me a brand new control room. In the long run it will save you money to do it right once, rather then keep going back trying to fix your room. I could have saved a lot of money not doing the last 10 'acoustic renovations' I've done in the last 5 years and just had someone that knew what they were doing give me some advice. |
| | |
| | #3 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,525
Thread Starter | That's a really good point. I think Bob Hodas is actually in my area too. How much did Wes charge you? Brad |
| | |
| | #4 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: SF, CA
Posts: 1,405
| that decision all comes down to how much you want to spend ...I'm sure you know * Brad, I'd like to check out your site but your sig link doesn't work
__________________ ------------------- E. Wesley Hill ::Supersonic Samples::Premium Drum Replacement Library/ WAV & GOG Heavy Hitters Edition coming soon! ------------------- |
| | |
| | #5 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,525
Thread Starter | Well I don't really want to spend money right now on consultation. So let's say for the purpose of this thread that getting someone to look at the room is off the table. Which do you think would be more useful as a tracking room of the size I mentioned? 1. Tight and dry, but well-balanced tonally? 2. Live and roomy, but acoustically "quirky"? Brad p.s. I know my website is down. I need to get new hosting. I have a myspace site although it needs updating too. Hmm...maybe that's what I'll do tonight. |
| | |
| | #6 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,525
Thread Starter | Feel free to email or PM me about my studio by the way. Brad |
| | |
| | #7 |
| Gear addict | IMO... Live and roomy. You can always do things later to baffle it down....or whatever. But at least you'll have the big room thing when you want it. D. |
| | |
| | #8 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,705
| posting from my phone here .... I'm a fan of live and quirky.. I like the idea of movable baffles to manipulate room sound. hardwood or laminate floors might be enough to make you happy...with your royers on overheads a little brightness from the source might be appreciated. |
| | |
| | #9 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,525
Thread Starter | Dude, you've been in my room. You know what it's like. But it can always be better. ![]() Brad |
| | |
| | #10 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sweden
Posts: 708
| Quote:
Deaden the beast & make it playable without risking your hearing. ![]()
__________________ http://www.mmvstudios.com | |
| | |
| | #11 | |
| Gear Guru Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 12,050
| Quote:
--Ethan
__________________ Ethan's audio book is coming! | |
| | |
| | #12 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,525
Thread Starter | Okay this is what I need to hear. If there is no chance in hell that a room that size can have decent ambience then maybe a bunch of treatment is my only option. Ethan--in your opinion how many 4" thick 2x4 foot absorbers would be required to make such a room "tight and clear". I have a bunch of traps on hand to work with. I'll try to post some MP3's of various drum overhead and room mics I've recorded over the last year something this weekend. Then at least everyone could hear where I am right now. thanks, Brad |
| | |
| | #13 |
| Gear Head Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 40
| I'm bored of "tight dry acoustically treated" sound. I like things that sound like the room they were recorded in. |
| | |
| | #14 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,525
Thread Starter | Care to elaborate on that thought? Brad |
| | |
| | #15 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bloomington Il
Posts: 5,032
| My live room is close to that size. I've got a really simple 4'x8' 'diffuser' made of 1'x4' that are on dowels so I can turn them in the frame. There is Auralex behind them. On one section of the ceiling I have a 4'x8' cloud with pink rolled insulation on the inside with a colored fabric stretched on the front. The other side/end of the room is pretty un-treated, though there some angles in the walls and ceiling. If I want the room super dry I can hang packing blankets on mic stands and get a very Sound Factory/Sunset Sound thing, Or I can leave it as is and get a nice splashy room thing happening. Personally I'd rather have that than an always dead/controlled sound that if I start looking of ambience I need to go to a box of some sorts. I can't think of the last time I used reverb on drums, I just push up the room mics and/or the parallel drum buss comp. My $.02
__________________ Tony Oxide Lounge Recording See the Oxide Lounge! Follow me on TWITTER! WWJMD? Come see me on the Tape Op boards! It's only inches on the reel to reel |
| | |
| | #16 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,525
Thread Starter | Do you have any pics of your room that show the diffusor thing you are describing? Brad |
| | |
| | #17 | |
| Gear Guru Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 12,050
| Quote:
--Ethan | |
| | |
| | #18 |
| Lives for gear | i just revamped my live room as well. it's a little smaller than that size (17x14) and i went with a tight/dry sound. i did choose to go with wood floors so it isn't completely dead. i put 4" 703 bass traps in each corner i could possibly fit into and a few ceiling clouds. i just finished up last week and i've only recorded drums once. so far i'm liking it a lot better than my old extremely "dead" room, i feel like everything is much more focused and yet still very open. there's really not much of a natural reverb, but the use of room mics adds a lot of body to the drums. i do have a few problems with some parallel walls which i hope to treat soon with some diffusors. i will try to post some sound clips soon. |
| | |
| | #19 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bloomington Il
Posts: 5,032
| Quote:
| |
| | |
| | #20 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,705
| Quote:
Brad, if you at all like the sound of my drum sample set is my sig, all of those drums were recorded in a 15 x 22 ft room in an old house with 10ft ceilings. Really old and thick hardwood floors. Absolutely no acoustic treatment. You'll never get the "big" room sound from your room, but you can certainly get a nice tight and lively sound from it. I think you've done a good job with the walls and ceiling... do you have any plans for the floors? | |
| | |
| | #21 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 548
| i don't know if this is possible with your room/budget, but the live room at my school has absorption panels on rollers, that can be pulled out to deaden the space or rolled behind the other parts of the wall to gain a more lively sound |
| | |
| | #22 | |
| Gear Guru Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 11,003
| Quote:
I would tend to agree with you on this, but I have worked with Brad and he really wants some of the room sound in the mix. 20 panels might just be the right number, but I think he should start with fewer panels and put in proper diffusion throughout the room. I am assuming that the bass traps are not in the 20 number you said. Brad also you may want to get some panels that are 6" by 4 ' and space them apart 6" along one of the further walls. This will help break up the sound but also help absorb. Glenn
__________________ Glenn Kuras GIK Acoustics USA GIK Acoustics Europe 770 986 2789 (USA) +44 (0) 20 7558 8976 (UK) See the NEW Soffit Bass Trap | |
| | |
| | #23 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,525
Thread Starter | Quote:
I saw the pics on your website. It doesn't look like there is much treatment in your room at all, although you don't have many parallel surfaces. Do you have any clips of room mics or drum overheads you could send me or post here? thanks, Brad | |
| | |
| | #24 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,525
Thread Starter | Quote:
Electrical Audio - Studio B - Live Room To address what Ethan and Glenn said... I think 20 panels would totally suck the life out of the room. Out of curiosity how many people reading this thread actually have 20 panels in their "live" rooms? Of all the pictures I ever see I notice very few. with any significant amount of treatment in their rooms. I want my room to have character...just not bad sounding character. My current theory is that because of all the acoustic tiles on the ceiling, all the high end energy is being sucked out of the room. Therefore when I had traps to even out the mids and low end ringing, I just end up removing even more high end. So my thought is to maybe hang absorbers but with something hard and reflective covering the front face so that the high end is not absorbed further. Any thoughts on this? Brad | |
| | |
| | #25 | |
| Gear Guru Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 11,003
| Quote:
Glenn | |
| | |
| | #26 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bloomington Il
Posts: 5,032
| I have some here done with the TOMB group buy ribbon and I can make a CD of the Pearlman tests i did too. Those are just one mic recordings to listen to new mics, and on the Pearlman play with pres a bit too. |
| | |
| | #27 |
| Lives for gear | I worked in a studio once that had a bunch of gobos made with 4'x8' sheets of plywood on one side and 703 on the other. They were all in pairs connected with door hinges and placed up against the walls. For a live sound you could keep them plywood side out and kept them open at an angle to break up the parallel walls. The 703 on the other side took care of some of the mud in the room and the angled plywood made it super live. I'm doing a terrible job describing it, but it was really effective and affordable. |
| | |
| | #28 | ||
| Gear nut Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York City
Posts: 103
| Quote:
In that case, I agree with Ethan that 20 bass trap panels in that room would help a lot. And perhaps you will want to add some diffusors as well. Quote:
We're talking about so much more space and more surface for sound to bounce around and develop what can actually be considered "reverb". You're simply not going to get that kind of decay time in a room the size of yours, and certainly not with enough density to offer you a nice reverberant quality. And I think I can take a pretty good guess that we're also talking about entirely different construction materials. Brick and concrete walls in and of themselves have completely different sonic qualities from wood and drywall construction. At a certain point, you kinda have to look at what you have (room shape, size, construction materials, etc., and figure out what's the best way to get the best out of that particular room, rather than trying to make the room into something it isn't. From there you may need to just go to a good reverb box to add the ambiance. I'd really need to have more information about what you have in that room now, and what materials are used (pics?), but I really suspect that your best bet is going to be to go more in the direction of tight and dry, as long as you can do it without absorbing too much high and mid frequencies out (which is certainly do-able!). Ethan's got 42 traps in his home theater room, and it's literally one of the nicest sounding rooms I've ever been in -- and I've played in literally hundreds of rooms the world over in the course of my career as a professional musician. I don't like "overly dead" or lifeless rooms either, but I would be happy to play/record my drums (or other instruments) in that room, and equally I'd be happy to mix in that room. I've also got my drums completely sounded with MiniTraps, and I love the sound in there. Everything is clear, full and punchy, and I get to hear ALL of the wonderful subtleties from my gorgeous Istanbul cymbals -- nothing gets washed out.
__________________ http://www.realtraps.com/ | ||
| | |
| | #29 |
| Gear Guru Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 11,003
| I am pretty sure Ethan was talking about thinner panels along with bass traps. but thanks for letting us know about real traps. ![]() ![]() Glenn |
| | |
| | #30 | |||
| Gear nut Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York City
Posts: 103
| Quote:
Quote:
![]() Quote:
![]() Sometimes if someone hasn't had experience with the best, they don't have any way of knowing how good it really CAN be. ![]() Anyhoo . . . just thought it were time for me to join y'all post wh*res. ;-) (j/k) | |||
| | |
New Reply
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Similar Threads | ||||
| Thread | Thread starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Mic pre in the live room vs in the control room | Shaman | High end | 13 | 26th December 2010 10:37 AM |
| Guitar and amp ties from control room to live room?!? | Tyrone | Low End Theory | 10 | 8th April 2009 07:11 PM |
| guitar heads in control room. how to connect to cab in live room??? | lwr | So much gear, so little time! | 7 | 3rd January 2007 12:03 PM |
| Guitar Player in Control Room, Amp in live Room | HiRaX | So much gear, so little time! | 28 | 10th December 2006 12:16 AM |
| Tracking rooms: live/boomy vs. tight/dry | Brad McGowan | So much gear, so little time! | 24 | 17th July 2006 10:25 PM |
| |