Critique My Lyrics!

[Miharbi]

Kudos for giving a sh%t about lyrics, and putting effort into them. I like the second song better than the first, although the title seems obscure (who or what is Raph?). It's impressionistic and evokes a certain feeling of the simple pleasures and perceptions of youth. If I were to suggest one thing it would be to maybe rethink the refrain, since "...to shine on until the next dawn" is kind of a cliched phrase/image. You might brainstorm other ways to capture what you want to say there.

As for the first song, I think it suffers from "Nobody gets it but the writer" disease. We get the general drift but the meaning of the details is not so accessible.

[lovenara]

the 1st song looks like an uptempo song but the chorus is not,chorus should be the summation of what the song about and for fastsong it always will be something people yelling about

Try write chorus first,make it short,understandable,repeatable
just my 2 cents

[Dave.R]

i don't have a critique but i do recommend the Muse's Muse forum. when i started writing lyrics i got a lot of excellent comments/advice/help from ppl on that forum

Muse's Muse Songwriting Message Board

nothing against Gearslutz but this is the specialty over there

[modularjack]

My advice is to pay a little more attention to the diction. In other words the syllable count. Perhaps these phrases fit your exact melody and its rhythm but reading it on the screen, it feels like you need to play around with some of the lines so they roll smoothly. If it were a poem anyways, you would make a big improvement with some subtle changes like:

Inside out, it tears me up.
I am stuck in between my thoughts.
I tried to run, I tried to run
I fell back, I came undone
Lessons to learn:, Crossed one more off the list,
Without you I don't exist.

becomes:

Inside out, it tears me up.
Stuck inside out in my own thoughts.
I tried to run, I tried to run
But I fell back, I came undone
Lessons to learn, one more off that list
Cause without you girl, I don't exist.

This way, the rhymes hit more on the beat/rhythm of the words. It's more symmetrical. Now granted, like I said, perhaps that fits exactly in some syncopated melody you have going. But based on just reading it as if it were a poem, I feel it would be a lot better if you added and took away some syllables and turned a phew phrases around so the rhymes drop in time with each other.

[MacFamousKid]

Originally Posted by modularjack

My advice is to pay a little more attention to the diction. In other words the syllable count. Perhaps these phrases fit your exact melody and its rhythm but reading it on the screen, it feels like you need to play around with some of the lines so they roll smoothly. If it were a poem anyways, you would make a big improvement with some subtle changes like:

Inside out, it tears me up.
I am stuck in between my thoughts.
I tried to run, I tried to run
I fell back, I came undone
Lessons to learn:, Crossed one more off the list,
Without you I don't exist.

becomes:

Inside out, it tears me up.
Stuck inside out in my own thoughts.
I tried to run, I tried to run
But I fell back, I came undone
Lessons to learn, one more off that list
Cause without you girl, I don't exist.

This way, the rhymes hit more on the beat/rhythm of the words. It's more symmetrical. Now granted, like I said, perhaps that fits exactly in some syncopated melody you have going. But based on just reading it as if it were a poem, I feel it would be a lot better if you added and took away some syllables and turned a phew phrases around so the rhymes drop in time with each other.

Haha, I know exactly what you're saying, but believe it or not, they fit perfectly with the melody. My songs aren't your typical 4/4 rock songs. They get a little weird.

[MacFamousKid]

Originally Posted by Miharbi

Kudos for giving a sh%t about lyrics, and putting effort into them. I like the second song better than the first, although the title seems obscure (who or what is Raph?). It's impressionistic and evokes a certain feeling of the simple pleasures and perceptions of youth. If I were to suggest one thing it would be to maybe rethink the refrain, since "...to shine on until the next dawn" is kind of a cliched phrase/image. You might brainstorm other ways to capture what you want to say there.

As for the first song, I think it suffers from "Nobody gets it but the writer" disease. We get the general drift but the meaning of the details is not so accessible.

The title of the second song is simply a line from Ninja Turtles 2, haha. I love obscurity. I think the refrain is pure crap right now. Thank you for agreeing! It's what I need to push my brain to secrete something better. This line is actually stretched out between a chorus/bridge. Doesn't quite make sense on cyber-paper. So I'm having trouble getting across what I want to say in few words. (though I can't even tell you what it is that I'm trying to say!)

And again, the first song suffers from me being weird, but definitely a little un-relatable.

Thanks for the advice!

[MacFamousKid]

Originally Posted by Dave.R

i don't have a critique but i do recommend the Muse's Muse forum. when i started writing lyrics i got a lot of excellent comments/advice/help from ppl on that forum

Muse's Muse Songwriting Message Board

nothing against Gearslutz but this is the specialty over there

Oh man, never knew this site existed. Thanks for the heads up!!!

[Scouser]

Good stuff, +1 Modularjack

Its just the little things

Difficult to tell without hearing the melody.

When I listen to a good song, its the whole package and how they fit together

[RKrizman]

It's hard to critique just the words on a page. I mean, anything could be a good lyric if the song succeeds in selling it. That said, I'd just say that those are a lot of words. I constantly suffer from overwriting the lyrics, and when it comes to creating melodies sometimes I find that discovering a simpler or more pithy way to say something really opens up the song and melodic possibilities.

-R

[Electric Sugar]

Some nice imagery there. I particularly like the "Dandelioned asphalt" part.

[creegstor]

You definitely can string language together but, from a songwriting perspective, we still have no idea of the appropriateness (or not!) of these words with music. There are many people who can write words well but cannot match the language of words to the language of music in a way that works. So without the context of music there's not much to go on.

Some nice lines though!

[MacFamousKid]

Originally Posted by creegstor

You definitely can string language together but, from a songwriting perspective, we still have no idea of the appropriateness (or not!) of these words with music. There are many people who can write words well but cannot match the language of words to the language of music in a way that works. So without the context of music there's not much to go on.

Some nice lines though!

Well then I guess it's time to throw some rough demos together, haha! Stay tuned...

[Jason West]

Originally Posted by MacFamousKid

Well then I guess it's time to throw some rough demos together, haha! Stay tuned...

Most people prefer great music with mediocre lyrics rather than great lyrics with mediocre music.

Sometimes the writers who are deeply invested into lyrics forget that point.
The music itself without the words has to be awesome to keep the listeners' attention and compel them to replay it again and again.

[Dave.R]

when it comes to a song of course the music is more important than the lyric. IOW, poor lyrics can be overcome with good music

BUTT its awesome when both are good

[MacFamousKid]

[MacFamousKid]

Alright here it is. I like to think that I put as much, if not more, effort into the music than the lyrics. Lyrics always come second for me. The singing sucks and the guitar(s) are rough. Deal with it, haha.

[creegstor]

Originally Posted by MacFamousKid

Alright here it is. I like to think that I put as much, if not more, effort into the music than the lyrics. Lyrics always come second for me. The singing sucks and the guitar(s) are rough. Deal with it, haha.

There are some decent musical ideas in the backing parts in places but unfortunately the vocal melodies themselves are weak and forgettable. There are maybe two bars in the whole vocal melody that would serve as decent jump off points to start developing. There is also a massive massive disconnect between what you have lyrically and melodically in the vocal line.

It's hard to instruct you what to do here. I think you do have some good music ideas in the backing. I think you have some good word ideas that evoke on a page. Your job is to find the melody that will allow some of those words to evoke in the air with the music. When (if) you do find that melody, there is no way on earth that all the lyrics you have now will work with it. At that stage your job becomes to recognize what is vital and works elementally and just junk the rest. And then you work from there.

[Dave.R]

Originally Posted by MacFamousKid

Alright here it is. I like to think that I put as much, if not more, effort into the music than the lyrics. Lyrics always come second for me. The singing sucks and the guitar(s) are rough. Deal with it, haha.

nice intro, grabbed me right away. too long, however. cut it in half: perfect

there's not much to "hold onto" in the verse and the 2nd varies too much from the 1st. try melodic patterns like imitation and sequences

the chorus just doesn't sound like a chorus. one thing is, it stays in the same range as the verse. and where's the hook? everyone is waiting for a payoff, give it to them

it has good instrumental ideas. i suggest starting over again with the vocal

your voice is fine, stop excusing yourself. sing everyday and it will get bettter

[Dave.R]

Originally Posted by creegstor

There is also a massive massive disconnect between what you have lyrically and melodically in the vocal line.

you need to explain that

[creegstor]

Originally Posted by Dave.R

you need to explain that

I would've thought it's pretty self-explanatory. There's a fundamental lack of prosody in the lyric to melody relationship. It hardly matters here as the melody needs to be completely changed anyway but such a disparity suggests it may be a particular weakness/gap in his understanding.

[Dave.R]

Originally Posted by creegstor

I would've thought it's pretty self-explanatory

a "disconnect" between lyrics and melody can mean anything

[creegstor]

Originally Posted by Dave.R

a "disconnect" between lyrics and melody can mean anything

Please explain how it could "mean anything".

[MacFamousKid]

Now now, let's not argue! First, thanks for the comments! Greatly appreciated. Dave. R, I can sing a lot better than this recording, that's what I meant. I did these quickly and quietly. In order to hit the notes I want, I need to sing at a fuller volume, which I wasn't really able to do at the time. As far as hooks, I tend to stray away from them for some reason. The moment my songs start to sound "radio-friendly" I get scared, haha. But you're right, there needs to be more of a pay-off.

The melody itself, I'll work on. For me the song, in a nut shell, is about learning to embrace your roots.The chorus is supposed to be loud, hard and raw, as though I'm finally learning and coming to the conclusion that I where I'm from will always be a part of who I am. I thought the lyrics and music matched (at least in my mind). I will admit, that more feeling need to be put into the melody and singing. LIke I said, I'll work on it.

Thanks for the honest feedback. I wish I could bounce every one of my ideas off you guys, haha.

[Jason West]

Originally Posted by MacFamousKid

I thought the lyrics and music matched (at least in my mind).

For my curiosity, did you write the lyrics first and then the music?
Or the music and then the lyrics?

I have no followup comments no matter how you answer but I am curious what your process was.

[MacFamousKid]

Originally Posted by Jason West

For my curiosity, did you write the lyrics first and then the music?
Or the music and then the lyrics?

I have no followup comments no matter how you answer but I am curious what your process was.

Music first, lyrics second.

[Dave.R]

Originally Posted by MacFamousKid

As far as hooks, I tend to stray away from them for some reason. The moment my songs start to sound "radio-friendly" I get scared, haha.

you don't want to write memorable music?

nothing to do with being radio-friendly (pop?). there are hooks in classical music, there they call them motifs

[MacFamousKid]

Originally Posted by Dave.R

you don't want to write memorable music?

nothing to do with being radio-friendly (pop?). there are hooks in classical music, there they call them motifs

Blech. Who wants their music remembered?

In all seriousness though, you're right. Obviously I want something to catch an ear or two, but I actively try to keep myself from falling into the "expected" (for lack of a better word) hook. I like wordiness. I dislike short uninspired phrases (though I certainly spew my fair share of banality). I guess I need to find the balance between writing music for me and writing music for others. I don't think I would ever want one of my songs morphed into a ringtone. So I tend to write in avoidance of such frivolities. But after this exchange, I think it's time to re-write this song a bit.

My other songs are little more riff-based. Think queasy, bendy, odd timey one noter guitar riff that eventually explodes into Valley-Forge-sized chorus, then back down to smooth grimey bass, only to return to the uneasiness of the beginning. That's what the other lyrics I posted are attached to. Not real big on the refrain yet. But maybe, if I can conquer my lazy bones, I'll record a rough demo of that and throw it to the dogs, so to speak.

I'm not sure if you're some "troll" that spends time on the Interwebs critiquing others, which ok, that's what you do, to each their own. But if you're a normal being of human that spent their own time helping a schmuck like me, than I truly thank you, as well as the other posters on this thread. There seems to be a general consensus of "great poetry, now use something other than a glue stick to attach it to music." So it's back to the drawing board for me.

And again, thank you!!

[Dave.R]

Originally Posted by MacFamousKid

I'm not sure if you're some "troll" that spends time on the Interwebs critiquing others, which ok, that's what you do, to each their own. !

that's ****ed up

have a nice life

[MacFamousKid]

Originally Posted by Dave.R

that's ****ed up

have a nice life

Ahh man, you completely misunderstood what I was trying to say there. Some people do that, but I can see that you're not like that. I was trying to say thank you for actually helping me out with this song. Perhaps I should have been clearer. No BS, I really appreciate your comments and efforts to help me improve my songwriting.