Loss of talent? Is it the age?

[Musky]

There is no age to write songs. 30y is pretty young to me. Most of songwriters start having success at around 40y. As for the successful young artists most of them don't write their stuff. If you are not able to sing it is a bit tricky since most of the great songs are based on great melodic line that fit on specific vocal.

[jdsowa]

If you're like most people, your musical tastes were defined in your teenager years, and you stopped absorbing new influences by the age of 25. Most pop music (and especially electronic music) is made for teenagers on alcohol and drugs. As you get over the age of 30, the idea of making this kind of music might start to seem a little silly.

Are you married? Do you have children? Do you have a meaningful day job? All of these things go towards satisfying some aspect of your creative drive. You only have so much energy in life.

[Polarelch]

Well. I agree that my musical taste was defined in my teenager years, but I was never a big fan of current trends. I enjoyed the Euro-Dance and Techno in the 90s, but I was never doing that myself, the stuff I always did was mostly classic/alternative/synth pop. Adult contemporary if you want to use that term. I never even attempted to sound modern or attractive for young people, not even when I was young myself.
Electronic music is a lot more than EDM

I always did what I wanted, even if I had the most uncool band in school Just now, not even that attitude works well anymore. Ideas come, but stop growing quickly. Maybe my head is full, maybe I cut ideas away too quickly, like, "had that before" or "not good enough, doesn't even impress myself."

And to answer your questions: I'm a happy single with lots of mostly younger friends, self-employed as a designer. Sometimes I have a busy time, sometimes lots of free days. So time and energy is not the problem.

[jdsowa]

Well, Beethoven--just to name one individual--composed into his 50s, so it's not like age is some absolute obstacle.

It may be that topically or stylistically, you've covered all the ground you want to cover, and unless you broaden your horizons, you're just going to feel like you're repeating what you've done in the past. So perhaps take up a new instrument, listen to new styles of music, or mess around with new compositional techniques.

[Polarelch]

That's actually a good idea.
Also, I heard of people way over 60 who still write (partially good) songs. They just happen to be popular for decades already.
So I myself don't think it's the age, and I might indeed do what you suggested.
Trying new techniques, new instrument, etc. Does that qualify as an excuse to buy a theremin?

Also, I might take the pressure away from myself because now, one year older or younger doesn't matter that much anymore as it did with 25-30, so I might take a break for a year.

[apartment dog]

Hi, I recognize what you described, also around my thirty's.
I think that hormonal change has to do with it.
But it doesn't have to mean that you must stop.
Maybe songs will come in a different way.

For me, I choose for improving my chops on the recording front, playing guitar, bass, keyboard and vocals. Work on arrangements better than (or different from) before and learning a bit of mixing.
I work as a music teacher and that can also interfere with the melodic space you need to get inspired.

I think it's important to take it as it is and still try out ways.
I didn't find it unnatural to loose some and win some other.

I didn't choose to try to become a pro songwriter/artist around my thirtys so having made that desicion I have to accept the consequences.
I believe it very often comes down to desicions like that.

But as it doesn't leave you cold maybe there will be a new way of working.
Or a new need to work on it.
Try to find out why you need it now in stead of holding on to the need you had before.

I wish you inspiration.

[tjporter]

Turned 50 this summer. Writing some of the best stuff of my life. Mind you, I went through a complete change (a mid-life musical crisis ) three years ago, gave up playing punk/alt rock guitar, started getting into synths & playing ambient/Berlin School.
So, don't give up hope yet - you've still got a long way to go. And, with music, the journey really is half the fun.

[Jason West]

Originally Posted by Musky

There is no age to write songs. 30y is pretty young to me. Most of songwriters start having success at around 40y.

Yep! The age bracket of 30s and 40s for songwriters is a very common period for quality output and not too old at all. The "shelf life" for pop singers does seem to peak in the 20s but songwriters have a much longer expiration date.

Michael_Masser was 32 when he quit his job as stockbroker and wrote his first hit.

Giorgio_Moroder was over 40 when he did some of his best work composing soundtracks for American Gigolo, Flashdance, Top Gun.

John Williams was 43 when he created the famous 1975 Jaws soundtrack. Even with that success, he still had future years of outstanding work in front of him including soundtracks for Star Wars, Superman, Indiana Jones, Schindler's List.

Age isn't the issue.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Polarelch

Hey guys. I have been writing (pop) songs since my early youth, and I think I have/had a good talent in that. However, I had no talent at all to make anything more out of my songs than them being in my head, or at best demos.
Up to now I must have composed several hundreds of songs and/or parts of them. But because I used to be very shy (and still am a bit), plus have no vocal talents at all to do my own stuff on a level good enough, all those songs were mostly just for myself and a handful of people who listened to some of my stuff online (and a crazy obsessed friend of mine who loves my stuff, well...). I just never knew how to properly proceed with my songs.

Ever since I'm well over 30, new ideas became less and less.
I have been thinking a lot, what's the reason. I also have less of a drive to make anything out of them, so it's a double dilemma. I came to an age where dreaming of a career in music (and I never had any) is, well... over. So this negativity must have affected my talent.

I do get a lot of short ideas still, but in my head, the "automatic" growth of an idea to a full song has somewhat stopped for me.
Maybe my brain thinks it's not worth it, maybe it comes with age naturally, maybe it's just a phase.

However, the other part of my brain wants to go on as it's the most natural thing for me to make music, as I identified myself as songwriter over decades now, and as a teenager saw my future in exactly that.

Sometimes I think, in order to reactivate the "flow", I have to have a vision of what can still be achieved, what's still possible, so that there is a basic drive for me. But maybe that's just a thing that fades away with age, unless you already had your stuff out in your 20s.

I actually didn't want to yet again get into this age drama, but I think it's responsible for my lack of new ideas.
And giving up my music is a thing that I just don't want to do.

Get the hell off my lawn, you damn fool whippersnappers!




Actually, I hear you. I've gone through phases where my songwriting has really fallen off for a spell. And, to be sure, my output is nothing like it was when I was gigging regularly a decade or two ago. But then the quality of what does get done is a lot better, I've found, and part of the reason I seem to have less output is that I'm less inclined to just rough out some sketchy blues idea just to have a new song to do at my next gig.

I've gone through other dry spells. I even went through about 7 months back in the 70s when I barely picked up an instrument. (When I realized it, it was a bit of a shock. But that was the only time that's happened and I'm still not sure why it did or what all was going on. I'm a moody guy and, back then, I used to self-medicate with alcohol. It's entirely possible I was having too good a time blotting out the symptoms of chronic depression to actually pick up a guitar. [Wait, what's so funny about that?])

Now, I try to make sure I always have a guitar out and grabbable (and, actually, looking around my front room, I realize there are usually at least 3 guitars out on stands). And I have been making a lot of progress on developing my guitar playing (after 4 decades of playing, I find it comforting that I'm still growing -- OTOH, it is a little daunting that there's still so much room to grow... if not necessarily so much time left to grow in. )

With regard to songwriting and slumps...

When I've recognized I was in dry spells in the past, I've sometimes taken 'proactive' steps of various kinds, starting projects (in the mid-90s I decided to jump start my writing by coming up with an album of girl-name songs loosely based on the female barista line-up at my favorite coffee house) or even getting involved with social efforts like songwriting workshops. (I've been actively involved with a songwriting forum on another big music BB for some years now, although I'm afraid I've entered a period where I'm usually there in my official capacity as a mod more than as a participant, something I lament.)

[rdstreets]

I've been writing songs since I was 12 and I agree we tend to have the closest affinity and strongest emotional ties to the music of our childhood and later our youth.

But that does not mean new music cannot make an impression. At the same time we have to acknowledge that we mature (hopefully) as we get older and as with other forms of art, all music is not equal. I loved rock growing up but when I hit my 30s I started to get bored with it. So I turned to Sinatra and Nat King Cole. Then I went further back to the older masters (Mozart/Beethoven/Puccini). All these styles can find their way into anything new you create.

But here's the thing for me... I found that writing songs is very much akin to digging a well. You need to dig regularly to get down to the cool, clean water. It takes time and you have to filter thru a lot of mud until you reach the good stuff.

In other words you have to allow yourself to write some duds before you stumble upon the tune you're actually proud of. Then after some time the gates start to creak open and you start to notice a stream of higher quality stuff flowing out.

Hope this helps!

[ksandvik]

Complaining about age is just another excuse...

[Polarelch]

Thanks guys, some great replies there.

First of all, no, I was not complaining about age, I was just considering it could be a reason why I have this phase. I grew out of this age drama that I was in some years ago (omg I'm 30 now whatttt), done, still alive, and much more relaxed than with 29 where this 30 was like an immense pressure on me.

Originally Posted by Jason West

Yep! The age bracket of 30s and 40s for songwriters is a very common period for quality output and not too old at all. The "shelf life" for pop singers does seem to peak in the 20s but songwriters have a much longer expiration date.

Good points you have there. Another name to mention there is currently David Guetta who is in his mid 40s.

Originally Posted by theblue1

When I've recognized I was in dry spells in the past, I've sometimes taken 'proactive' steps of various kinds, starting projects (in the mid-90s I decided to jump start my writing by coming up with an album of girl-name songs loosely based on the female barista line-up at my favorite coffee house) or even getting involved with social efforts like songwriting workshops. (I've been actively involved with a songwriting forum on another big music BB for some years now, although I'm afraid I've entered a period where I'm usually there in my official capacity as a mod more than as a participant, something I lament.)

Hah that concept sounds cool. I also considered doing some concept album, but I'm not sure. I can't decide if I should let my mind go free or if I should follow some restrictions in order to be creative.

Originally Posted by rdstreets

But here's the thing for me... I found that writing songs is very much akin to digging a well. You need to dig regularly to get down to the cool, clean water. It takes time and you have to filter thru a lot of mud until you reach the good stuff.

In other words you have to allow yourself to write some duds before you stumble upon the tune you're actually proud of. Then after some time the gates start to creak open and you start to notice a stream of higher quality stuff flowing out.

Hope this helps!

That was one amazing reply. This I will keep in mind for the next times when I discard idea after idea.

In general, I think I need to relax more and not put me under such a pressure, that also applies for other parts in life.

One concrete question though:
I noticed, that I - in recent years - try too much to work after a plan that I have set for myself (example: wanted to do a new highly instrumental album this summer). So new ideas might come, but I'd think they don't fit to the task I have set for myself, so I forget about it. Like, a pop ballad would come to my mind when it just doesn't fit to the thing that I planned to do.

I might rather forget about those plans and tasks and rather develop an idea as it comes, and then afterwards decide if it's for my band, my solo synth project, or maybe for another artist. Maybe I also should turn to some older ideas and make something out of them finally.

Hard to find a balance between "I *should*" and "I *want*"

[theblue1]

rdstreets is straight on on the writing a lot angle.

Someone said that you had to write a million words before you could even consider yourself a writer. They were talking about prose, of course, and, well, a million words is, like, 10 novels... but you get the drift. You have to write a lot -- and if you're like most folks, you're probably going to have to write a lot of crap -- I mean crap that you recognize is crap as soon as you write it, that bad. But it's part of the learning process.

[apartment dog]

Originally Posted by rdstreets

I found that writing songs is very much akin to digging a well. You need to dig regularly to get down to the cool, clean water. It takes time and you have to filter thru a lot of mud until you reach the good stuff.

In other words you have to allow yourself to write some duds before you stumble upon the tune you're actually proud of. Then after some time the gates start to creak open and you start to notice a stream of higher quality stuff flowing out.

Wow, as good as a good lyric. Very well put.

[rdstreets]

Thanks all.. You might also want to check out the book "Talks with Great Composers" by Arthur Abell. I noted that some posters at Amazon have doubts whether these interviews ever really happened. All I can say is that I didn't get that impression when I read the book. It all seemed very real and helped me to understand how the Masters went about accessing inspiration..

"Between the years 1890 and 1917 Arthur M. Abell engaged in lengthy, candid conversations with the greatest composers of his day-- Johannes Brahms, Giacomo Puccini, Richard Strauss, Engelbert Humperdinck, Max Bruch, and Edvard Grieg-- about the intellectual, psychic, and spiritual tensions of their great creative endeavors. The result of their probing and insightful discussions is quite simply a masterpiece-- a document that reveals the agony, triumphs, and the religiosity inherent in the creative mind.

The six composers readily agreed to explore with their friend their innermost thoughts regarding the psychology of the creative process. Brahms insisted, however, that his disclosures not be published until fifty years after his death, because, he said, "I will not find my true place in musical history until at least half a century after I am gone."

Talks With Great Composers: Arthur Abell: 9780806515656: Amazon.com: Books

[UltimateOutsider]

I started writing and recording when I was in high school, and stopped completely when I was 27, only to resume again 12 years later. I've thought a lot about why I backed away from music for over a decade, and I came up with these observations:

• My early work was mostly the product of suffering. Songwriting was my primary mode of emotional expression when I first started out. All the confusion of growing up and suffering through relationships came out there. When my life became more stable and comfortable, I had less to write about.
• I was married, with a full-time job. When I was in high school and college, I'd get a song idea in the morning and have a track written and recorded before the sun came up the next day. I am a marathon worker who doesn't do well when I have to break things up into chunks. With less free time and a work schedule, I found it difficult to keep up the momentum to complete individual tracks.
• I had too much gear. Haha, this is prolly the wrong place to mention this, but I definitely reached a point where my musical productivity was inversely proportional to the amount of synths and effects I had. I'm an engineer by nature and I'm very easily distracted by little technical details. This is something I still struggle with today. This is my own struggle- some people do great when more technical opportunities open up to them.
• I developed other creative outlets. By that time I was managing personal web sites for fun, and I also began writing programs professionally and in my spare time. I just plain like making stuff, whether it's creative writing or programming, so the music kinda fell to the background.

I got back into it because I started getting a bunch of musical ideas again a couple years ago. I have been working very hard to ramp up on all the new technology that's blossomed since the MIDI-only days when I went into hiatus. I'm fascinated (and yes, still very distracted) by all the current DAWs and plugins and instruments available now, but I hope to be productive once again soon. I use the voice recorder app on my phone to save song ideas when I get them, and I tap them out in Cubase when I get a chance.

As a way to sort of keep things simple as I come to grips with modern DAWs and instruments, I've been sticking to instrumental electronic music. More on the minimal and classic Trance side, not just because I like that stuff, but because some electronic sub-genres are very demanding, production-wise. It will take a while to work up to some of that stuff.

Anyway, I don't think age alone has anything to do with it. But I also don't think creative people ever stop being creative. They just sometimes find different avenues to express themselves.

[NoVi]

First I was going to write that yes, age comes with loss of talent regarding composing ... simply look at all those stars from the 60s/70s, how many of them are still writing songs that are in some way have an impact on today's generation.... I couldn't think of any. But I realized that their fame as composer was linked with their fame as an artist. On the other hand their famous songs from back then are still popular today. So I'm not sure what to make of it

When you look at the classical composers many of them didn't get very old (Mozart, Chopin, Schuhmann, Schubert) some that did grow old and continued to compose impressive works (Verdi, Haydn, Bach, Tchaikowsky), but most did suffer from a combination of loss of talent and aging.

[theblue1]

Sure, there are a lot of aging rock stars that are more than faintly embarrassing -- but that is often because their songwriting isn't 'allowed' to mature along with their chronological age. Labels tell them the fans want them to keep making the music the fans fell in love with when they were all much younger -- and many fans will probably tell you the same thing.

But trying to give people what you (or maybe worse, some soulless, ear-dead suit*) think they want is often a way to set yourself -- and your fans -- up for ultimate disappointment. You're not 25 any more and neither are they. They might love the songs you wrote about making love in the back seat of your '62 Dodge back then -- but if you keep on writing about teen love, it's unlikely that your new songs will displace your beloved hits in fans' minds and they'll just assume you just can't write as well anymore.

Which is why it's nice to see artists mature.

I was already in my late 20s when I got involved with the punk/new music scene in the late 70s -- and I remember saying to my (slightly) younger friends that still being a punk rocker at 40 or 50 was probably going to be pretty embarrassing. I suggested that a move to genres that might allow a little more dignity with age would be a good strategy, suggesting country and blues/roots as likely paths for many of the then-punkers that would give them an agreeable cultural space to work in (obviously others came to the same conclusion).

A few writers I think have matured very nicely over the years are Leonard Cohen, Richard Thompson, and Guy Clark -- just off the top of my head -- but there are lots of others.



*Yes, I know my new avatar pic is me wearing what appears to be a suit and tie.

[Graeme Lang]

I'm 44 (yikes) - always harboured ambition but never really had the balls to take it further but never lost the love of writing and recording songs when the inspiration strikes.

Stylisticly - when I was a teenager it was in the 80's and I was mostly influenced by the electronica around at that time. My music is like a timewarp back to the 80's probably (lol).

To echo the sentiments of others - (also the name of one of my tracks) "Never Give Up"!!

[wakestyle]

Originally Posted by Polarelch

Hey guys. I have been writing (pop) songs since my early youth, and I think I have/had a good talent in that. However, I had no talent at all to make anything more out of my songs than them being in my head, or at best demos.
Up to now I must have composed several hundreds of songs and/or parts of them. But because I used to be very shy (and still am a bit), plus have no vocal talents at all to do my own stuff on a level good enough, all those songs were mostly just for myself and a handful of people who listened to some of my stuff online (and a crazy obsessed friend of mine who loves my stuff, well...). I just never knew how to properly proceed with my songs.

nothing at all wrong with that bro

Ever since I'm well over 30, new ideas became less and less.
I have been thinking a lot, what's the reason. I also have less of a drive to make anything out of them, so it's a double dilemma. I came to an age where dreaming of a career in music (and I never had any) is, well... over. So this negativity must have affected my talent.

I can relate, I consider much of what I wrote 'in my youth' to be more firey, spontaneous, chaotic etc.. basically all the things that I now consider to be more valuable, original, inspiring etc.
It could also be because that my tastes have changes (natually) and it's simply a matter of being in (b) mode, where as now (a) mode is different again, therefore enticing once again.

I do get a lot of short ideas still, but in my head, the "automatic" growth of an idea to a full song has somewhat stopped for me.
Maybe my brain thinks it's not worth it, maybe it comes with age naturally, maybe it's just a phase.

However, the other part of my brain wants to go on as it's the most natural thing for me to make music, as I identified myself as songwriter over decades now, and as a teenager saw my future in exactly that.

Sometimes I think, in order to reactivate the "flow", I have to have a vision of what can still be achieved, what's still possible, so that there is a basic drive for me. But maybe that's just a thing that fades away with age, unless you already had your stuff out in your 20s.

I actually didn't want to yet again get into this age drama, but I think it's responsible for my lack of new ideas.
And giving up my music is a thing that I just don't want to do.

As you said, you still get a lot of new ideas, but the means to put them together seems to be holding you back. Perhaps you just don't put enough time aside for that to happen?

One thing I can point out in this "age" debate, is that one of the things I can remember from when I first started out, was my energy levels were often far higher. No problem to work 8-12 hours come home, party, jam, write etc till 3-4 am, get up at 8am start over. I can't just do that anymore, it's not physically possible for me, at least.

[sameal]

i think your just in a musical rut friend. you need to find something to dislodge you.

depression can certainly halt your forward momentum. but you can harness it for forward momentum. use it as the focus on your song, write a tear jerker.

can't sing? who cares. find YOUR voice. this guy couldn't really sing. he found HIS voice. he had some bitchin' lyrics too.

U-MV112 - Jim Carroll - People Who Died - YouTube

some people buy a new toy and get inspired by it's ability's. some people go through traumatic event's, some people go through extremely happy event's, some people get inspired working with others and many many more.

try some of all that. it's only over if you say it's over. creativity has no age limit.

[Electric Blue]

Originally Posted by jdsowa

You only have so much energy in life.

amazingly well put.

[wakestyle]

Originally Posted by sameal

some people buy a new toy and get inspired by it's ability's. some people go through traumatic event's, some people go through extremely happy event's, some people get inspired working with others and many many more.

try some of all that. it's only over if you say it's over. creativity has no age limit.

+1 nothing like new slutty toys to inspire!

[Papanate]

Originally Posted by Polarelch

Sometimes I think, in order to reactivate the "flow", I have to have a vision of what can still be achieved, what's still possible, so that there is a basic drive for me..

If I were to guess - I'd say you've ran out of things to say. Sometimes that's temporary other times it's permanent.

So What's the Papanate Solution? Go get involved. Get your life active in what's interesting to you. Get your brain moving again too. Challenge yourself with tasks or otherwise that make you think about things.

[sameal]

Originally Posted by wakestyle

+1 nothing like new slutty toys to inspire!

indeed.

i got a theremin finally. i have no idea what I'm doing with it, but god damnit I'm going to record it!

new gear = slumpbuster.

[Papanate]

Originally Posted by jdsowa

You only have so much energy in life.

I disagree.

[Tallowah]

Originally Posted by Polarelch

Ever since I'm well over 30, new ideas became less and less.
I have been thinking a lot, what's the reason. I also have less of a drive to make anything out of them, so it's a double dilemma. I came to an age where dreaming of a career in music (and I never had any) is, well... over. So this negativity must have affected my talent.

What, why on earth would you ever think that? What's considered "too old" to make music? Heck, I know people approaching 50 who still produce music & DJ in night clubs.

Do whatever YOU love/like. As long as you're providing a roof, basic everyday necessities etc, who the heck cares? If on the other hand you're walking the streets strumming a guitar while begging for change, you may want to re-evaluate. The fact that you're involved in a public forum (and probably own a computer), leads me to believe that the latter doesn't describe you though.


As far as the "negative" thinking part.... Yeah, THAT can be a problem. You might want to consider finding a way to eliminate negative thinking. It only serves as a hindrance!



`

`

[Polarelch]

Yeah, thanks guys, so the consensus is clearly that age is not the problem here, and some of you have guessed some things right.
No I'm not gonna take my monotron and walk through the subways to ask for money

I agree I need to get into something new, or find a new aspect of an existing hobby. Also need to find out if I have some depression... now that I got some free time, I will also have more time to look after my wellbeing.

New gear will be a part of that process (hey we're on gearslutz)

And I already decided to turn the internet off for some hours every day.

[baskervils]

Youth being an inhibitor is a myth of the rock age. Many of the guys who composed standards were doing it well into old age. Some of the Brill Building people were much older than the hits they were writing for the target audience.

That said, there is something nice about being young and energized and writing for the first time. But, with age and study you can start creating music that was hard to do in youth.