Legal help?

[scruffydog]

not sure why no one else has any thoughts....i have some..

-Does that count as composition?

not so sure....did you write the melody or the lyrics?
arranging and producing a song is a little different from 'writing' it...

-should you get credit?

yes....if you made the additional contribution you suggest here you need to get credit.
If you did not write or add any 'melody or lyric' you can go for 'poduction' or even 'additional production' as well as 'additional engineering.'

Also have credit for any keys or other instruments you played.

Is it important?

well...to the industry pro's it seems so!



cautionary tales abound regarding 'picking your fights carefully'.
the industry is quite small and word gets around..so things have to be done properly.

You imply that this is your first shot..and you were happy to have a good go....
putting yourself on the map is one part but building on it is another.
if you are a young production team i advise a youthful spirit of hope!
rather than an untimely fight that colours your whole career.

did you write it?

ask yourself and think deeply on this before you shoot off any nasty emails or make 'that call'.
maybe fighting over a few chord embellishments is a distraction to the much bigger picture you might paint in times to come?

to really get on in the business...i have noticed...bridge builders get on so much better than bridge burners.

if you do take a more confrontational stance..remember one thing and one thing only..
it's not what you say it's how you say it!!

any help?
'

[theblue1]

There is some gray area, but, basically, when considering authorship rights of a song, the primary considerations are main melody and lyrics, if any. Arrangements can be copyrighted themselves (more than a little hazy on that) but it is separate from the copyright of the song. Now, while melody is generally considered the primary, proprietary musical feature (you can't protect a chord progression), if there is a key musical element that is integrally tied with the identity of the song (say, like the bass line from "Shot Gun" or the drum tattoo from "Big Noise from Winnetka"), that feature may be considered.

Sadly, when push comes to shove, a lot of times, the guy with the biggest lawyer wins. :(


As always, it pays go get everything in writing. You can do the music biz equivalent of the jailhouse lawyer thing but entertainment and copyright law is a lot different from most of the classical, Anglo-American common law-derived legal system -- basically because the laws have largely been written by music biz lobbyists for benefit of big monied interests within the music biz (which is why, by law, the publisher gets half of the mechanical royalties.


http://entertainment.howstuffworks.c...royalties6.htm

[Heyclown]

** On compose/co-compose **

I am thinking that if you kept the same melody line, the song still goes in the same key. If the SBS(semibigshot) wrote the original then I believe you will have a hard time claiming composition. On this side of the planet (Europe) I don´t believe it is common to recomposition a track without having a clear deal on doing so up front. In my belief you can claim arrangement/production but not co-composition. Unless you off cut that deal with him now. Tell him you would want cocomp if possible and listen to his story.

Be polite and friendly and tell them about your thought/worries. Always pays off.

[creegstor]

Originally Posted by timsmolens

I have produced and arranged songs for a moderately successful indie artist. We arranged and orchestrated a lot of stuff, engineered and produced the tracks. On one of the tracks I completely reharmonized the entire song, taking a simple minor key progression and changing the chords in the vein of Brian Wilson (sophisticated bass notes and altered chords), lots of half diminished chords, etc, in essence changing the whole song. Does that count as composition? The stuff is finally going to see the light of day and it looks like my contribution to the song is not being considered composition. We also were not payed very well, because we were just excited to have the "big" name.... So my question is, should I be fighting for composition credit.... The song was about 3 chords.... and changed it to be about 30 different chords in succession, but keeping the original melody..... Thanks for your help?

The first question you have to answer before anyone can give you any real insight is What exactly were you hired to do? What was the initial work agreement/understanding whether written or verbal?

[wakestyle]

This sounds like it could become a headache in this situation if this type of thing is not discussed BEFOREHAND.

I personally don't think that what you described is not 'writing'. I also understand he may not want to have some producer guy on the immediate band credits which could clash with the style/ego of the artist?

I would consider this writing if you were contributing actual hooks and arrangement changes, but you describe that you guys were working together, so you essentially were realising HIS ideas which he could not express himself?

Best guess is go for production credits?

[Jeff Hayat]

Originally Posted by timsmolens

I have produced and arranged songs for a moderately successful indie artist. We arranged and orchestrated a lot of stuff, engineered and produced the tracks.

That is arranging and not composing (aka writing). You should get credit for all of that, assuming you had a prior agreement. If you didn't, then you can ask for credit, but if it is denied, you have no legal footing here. Even if you get credit, you do not get your name on the copyright form(s), your name does not go on any cue sheets, and you do not get to share in any performance royalties if any are to be had.

Originally Posted by timsmolens

I completely reharmonized the entire song, taking a simple minor key progression and changing the chords in the vein of Brian Wilson (sophisticated bass notes and altered chords), lots of half diminished chords, etc, in essence changing the whole song. Does that count as composition?

AFAIC, that is a bit of a grey area, but leaning towards no - that what you have there is arrangment and not composition. When you say "changing the chords" what do you mean specifically? If the original was A F G with only the root and fifth for all three, and then you added the maj/min, making the chords Am Fmaj Gmaj, then that's not composition. If you actually added chords that were not there to begin with - let's say the progression is A F G 4x, and after you got done with it, it became Am Fmaj Gmaj, Cmaj Fmaj Em, Am Fmaj Gmaj, Bm Cmaj Dm, that might qualify as composition. But I wouldn't be the one to say for sure. Best bet there is contact an attorney. Most states in the US (possible WA) have lawyer referral services. Call them, and have them refer you to the appropriate attorney. It might cost around $25 for a 15-20 min consultation, but where you are, that should be plenty of time, and the money will be well spent. You can even add it to your taxes if you itemize.

Good luck.

[cool.as.i]

Had a related question regarding songwriting credits, more specifically, about singer songwriters and their backing bands.

I've noticed that many singer songwriters will write songs (lyrics/chords/general arrangement) and then show it to their band who add their own parts over the song, sometimes with the songwriter's instruction and sometimes not. From articles and interviews I've read, singer songwriters will give a lot of credit to a particular guitarist or drummer or whatever for the parts they added but then on the album credits, the singer/songwriter is the only one listed.

On some songs the band's contribution is minimal but on other songs the details can really make or break them so I was wondering if there is any rule of thumb or anything regarding what the difference is between being a member of the backing band and a co-writer. I'm sure some of it has to do with how famous/successful the singer songwriter is but as someone trying to work with other musicians on some material, is this something that is usually hammered out before working on a project or is it something decided after the fact (i.e. "...that guitarist really helped make that song what it turned into....")??? Thanks