How can I fix this song. Pleeease listen!

[Doughboy]

I like it. It's a nice original sounding tune. The beginning to me thou doesn't seem very tight. It's kind of like a spontaneous deal that juuuuust isn't quite there. That one guitar chord that is strummed fast kind of seems out of place.

I think your close though. Just tighten it up and you'll have a killer song.

What town in Michigan are you from?

[smalltownjon]

I'm in Ferndale. You around here?

Thanks for the comment. Definitely a slop fest in this lil demo.

[Dotour]

Pick one or two rhythmic ideas and stick with them. The beginning is very confusing and I think you could help clear that up by establishing your meter clearly in the drum line starting right at the beginning. I'd suggest that you take the drum part at 1:03 with the tambourine and use that as your rhythmic theme at the beginning so that we can hear right away where the beat is. Once you get rolling, it's not so bad.

The dramatic buildup at 1:46 comes too early. It'll be more effective if you put that at the end of a longer breakdown or solo section. The verse that comes afterward is quite decent. If you want a big finish, I'd suggest that you repeat that a couple of times and ramp up the instrumentation and dynamics as you go.

Also, the kick drum and bassline together kind of crowd out the low end of the mix at 0:47 and again at 2:05. You might want to separate those two.

[jdsowa]

You are a good songwriter. You have a very nice melodic and harmonic sense. In the past, a person like you would've worked with a real band of musicians so that their ideas could be translated in a reasonable period of time. Now they're fumbling around at home for 10+ years trying to learn how to do absolutely everything by themselves. Hopefully you'll go the former route.

As for advice, I think the 2nd verse is strange. The organ/synth pad thing is icy cold (sounds like the choir from Madonna's "like a prayer") and doesn't match the warm sound of the 1st verse where you had the guitars and everything. I would recommend keeping it quite similar to the 1st verse, but just adding 1 extra additional element for variety. Don't need a completely different feel.

Then you go into the chorus where it has this very dramatic build-up. I don't think that's really appropriate for only the 2nd appearance of the chorus section. I think you should have a normal chorus here. Go into a bridge. And then do the dramatic build-up into the final chorus. Instead of breaking the textures down at the end (which is a thing people often do on home demos), I would just have a phrase repeat (maybe in falsetto--distant and grand) and just fade the song out or end on a solid downbeat where it rings out. See ending of Coldplay "Yellow", Interpol "PDA", etc etc.

[smalltownjon]

Really cool suggestions here. It's good to see people have an opinion and I'm definitely going to fool around with a lot of what everyone has had to say. Thanks for everyone who so far has helped to make clear how this song is perceived.

[creegstor]

There's nothing wrong with it conceptually or rhythmically. You just need better musicians who have rehearsed the ying-yang out of it all playing it at the same time. At the moment it sounds like one guy who can kinda half-play doing overdubs so it sounds scrappy. Also I think if you rehearse a great band on it, the song form and dynamic-build issues will naturally start to sort themselves out.

[smalltownjon]

Yeah, it certainly does sound like terrible musicianship. Most of it was a one pass improvisation. Then copied and paisted around to get ideas down.

I'm a very amateur percussionist though.

So yeah, the idea is to get my musician friends together and record this song. Though only once it's prepared, and a few other songs are mapped out as well.

Thanks for the reply

[Doughboy]

Small town....I'm from Gaylord. Can't wait to hear your tune after it's been touched up.

[smalltownjon]

Awesome. I'll definitely post the finished product.

Here's my current project I'm playing around in.

El Dee

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by smalltownjon

I would like to make the percussion and overdubs more interesting. Maybe less bass, drums, and guitar. I would to do some more unique percussion. More unique arrangments but, i don't even know where to begin.

Lyrics aren't finished. This is a demo. Guitars were direct. Everything was done just to get it on tape. No time was spent perfecting anything. I figure it's a waste of time to do on a demo that's just going to get rerecorded.

Please give me any advice on how to make things more interesting or if you think there are parts that should or shouldn't be there. That feel empty or too busy. That change to quickly. Stuff like that.

I know the song needs a grand ending. I haven't even really gotten there because I'm not sure what to do with the song.

Does anyone have a good mind for organizing songs?

Thanks.

You've got some interesting ideas. I like what I think you're trying to do. But, dang, you are a long way off from pulling it off. I started getting seasick from the rhythm problems once you fell into the 'normal' part. The spacy, 'herky jerky'* parts actually work better because they make the problems with basic timing/rhythm less obvious.

A for effort.



*Damn, I really hate that term, but it seems to have long ago taken root as the most chosen term of art for aggressive/unexpected rhythms. (Seems like you couldn't get through reading a single Talking Heads article without... )

[smalltownjon]

As far as the rhythm problems go are you referring to the fact that they aren't well in time, as in, on the grid. Or that the rhythm is pretty erratic and unpredictable and too progressive?

If the latter then, I'm not sure what to do because I feel unmoved as of late writing parts that are repetitive. Maybe I need a rhythmic element to tie it all together and give the listener some thread of timing to hang onto.

Thank you for your reply.

[pinkheadedbug]

It all hangs together once you get the sixteenths on the tambourine in there. You need something like that from the get go.

Love the powerpop feel. Terrific song.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by smalltownjon

As far as the rhythm problems go are you referring to the fact that they aren't well in time, as in, on the grid. Or that the rhythm is pretty erratic and unpredictable and too progressive?

If the latter then, I'm not sure what to do because I feel unmoved as of late writing parts that are repetitive. Maybe I need a rhythmic element to tie it all together and give the listener some thread of timing to hang onto.

Thank you for your reply.

As I'm perceiving this, the most pressing problems are in performance. I like the ideas that seem to be expressed in the intro and some of the more 'angular' sections where there's more an outside feel (as well as more space in the arrangement).

In the intro, I suspected the timing was kind of off, but it was outside enough that it didn't seem as obvious. Once you fell into a more conventional rock combo rhythm, it became clear that the individual parts were in serious rhythmic disarray, performance-wise.

FWIW, I like the adventurous attitude and the outsider pop sensibility. (The vocals are pretty cool, too!) But to work, I'm afraid it needs more disciplined, on-the-money playing.


To borrow a quote from 60's Dylan: To live outside the law, you must be honest.

Only we're talking about rhythm. Same thing.

[pinkheadedbug]

Don't be afraid of being obvious. There is enough un-obvious stuff going on in the song, but it needs a spine. theblue1 is totally right about the performances but I get the strong sense that you can fix that easily. It's more about the arrangement. You have a wonderfully deconstructed pop song here, but because you're down on repetition, it doesn't have anything that the listener can hook onto to make sense of it. It's clear to me that it makes sense to YOU -- so now you just have to clue the listener in. That could be as simple as tambo 16ths, or a bass line, or any kind of repetitive or rhytmic figure that underlies the whole song. Go listen to some Love, or early Wire.

To borrow a quote from 60's Dylan: To live outside the law, you must be honest.

Only we're talking about rhythm. Same thing.

Yep, exactly. Exciting stuff, among the most interesting (to me) I've heard on this forum.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by pinkheadedbug

[...]

Yep, exactly. Exciting stuff, among the most interesting (to me) I've heard on this forum.

Absolutely, I don't want my admiration for the conception/sensibilities behind the track to be overshadowed by my practical complaints. We need to encourage this kind of adventurous spirit!

[Mefistophelees]

I think it's a great track, has a 10cc feel about it. I don't think it needs any radical reworking, just tidied up a bit.

[smalltownjon]

Thank you guys. I appreciate the compliments and I'm in no way being discouraged by your helpful comments.

I spent a little time lining some things up in this newer version.

Next I'll rearrange some things, add some things, and take away some, with these suggestions in mind. Then post it.


EDIT: also there is some delays going on with the vox in the chorus and later that a little out there but, I suppose we're not really talking about the mix in this forum.