OK So Now What?

[Blast9]

A well-connected Music Biz lawyer who has personal relationships with publishers and artists?

In London, the US collection societies ASCAP and BMI periodically hold various song writing workshops - good for networking

Seek out well-regarded high-quality singer-songwriter nights and go and hang out as much as poss, armed with your biz card

[Roisky]

AnR's on Twitter are constantly accepting songs.

[Heyclown]

Originally Posted by Breaks Dude

who do you get in touch with once you have a portfolio of work? And HOW do you get in touch with them? Mail? Email? Facebook?

Try to get a manager. Or do the job yourselves. People I know in the business knocked the door of really big managers not once; but 3-4 times until they actually got a deal. The managers normally take 20% of your income of royalties and other income but is more than worth it if they are good. And if your songs are really good, managers will seriously consider letting you into their portfolio; after finding out about your goals and capacity.
Also keep in mind that there are many unserious managers out there. Google them. There are also many good websites out there to get in touch with the business but I don´t wanna post any of them here as I then easily is taken to be a part of the site I post a link to.
And do networking! Write songs with others. It´s better to own 25% of 100.000 than 100% of nothing.

Keep it up - it´s all really about hard work. Best of luck.

[Breaks Dude]

Originally Posted by Roisky

AnR's on Twitter are constantly accepting songs.

LOL.

Originally Posted by Heyclown

Try to get a manager. Or do the job yourselves. People I know in the business knocked the door of really big managers not once; but 3-4 times until they actually got a deal. The managers normally take 20% of your income of royalties and other income but is more than worth it if they are good. And if your songs are really good, managers will seriously consider letting you into their portfolio; after finding out about your goals and capacity.
Also keep in mind that there are many unserious managers out there. Google them. There are also many good websites out there to get in touch with the business but I don´t wanna post any of them here as I then easily is taken to be a part of the site I post a link to.
And do networking! Write songs with others. It´s better to own 25% of 100.000 than 100% of nothing.

Keep it up - it´s all really about hard work. Best of luck.

Thanks. I write music only. I've been producing for 14 years and am very fast when it comes to writing middle of the road pop type stuff. I've had a successful indie label for years (EDM) but am now just finding I might have a knack for producing the musical side of pop. Actually it's not something I thought I'd be any good at but I guess my experience writing dance music all these years makes it a bit of second nature.

So do I just seek out a few managers and send them demos of my music? I don't feel like developing an act, only working with acts who need this kind of production. I've been nominated for a few dance music and DJ awards in the past and have a previous #1 Billboard charted dance remix under my belt (dunno if that helps though).

I picked up a copy of the Songwriter Market and find that eye opening as far as how submissions are to be sent. They have a section for management - guess I should start there.

[Heyclown]

I have a copy of songwriter´s market from 2006 and it´s the biggest waste of my money ever. Mostly because it seems to be written towards the American market and I´m in Europe. Never version´s might be good - I dunno - I never cared to check. Back on track now...

I know that songquarters.com and/or hitquarters.com is alive and breathing but I cannot tell you how much value you get for your money there.
If your work is good - I would try to contact some big shot managers right on. Look at the big songwriters. Google their management. Send them your 3 best tracks and a bio. They might not take you into their portfolio but they might pass you on to a less known friend up and coming. And that way you WILL BE HEARD. But then again; it has to be great stuff. A potential hit song or two. If the song is a buster you will hear from them. But keep in mind that these guys gets stuff all the time. If it ain´t blowing their toupee off from bar two they will stop it and use their precious time on what they do for a living.
You will only get ONE first impression opportunity. Be VERY wary of what you are sending out.

Be professional. No excuses. To quote future music magazine - wich actually just had an article on how to earn money from your music:
"Be calm and professional - as you paddle hard beneath the surface."

You can buy that issue for your iPad on appstore. Just search future music magazine in the appstore.

There is so much more that could have been said but it boils down to...
Having great songs/productions. To quote Mikkel Eriksen of Stargate:
"You gotta have such great songs that they cannot say no."
It´s so true. It´s an whole industry out there looking for the next fantastic hit. In the meantime they sell what passes their bar in lack of the next fantastic hit song. If you got that song you´re golden. Very few will turn that down. Although Britney Spears management turned down Umbrella when they was offered the song. Beat that! oO

Best of luck!

[dabianzo]

Originally Posted by Heyclown

I have a copy of songwriter´s market from 2006 and it´s the biggest waste of my money ever.

could not agree more.

[Breaks Dude]

Originally Posted by Heyclown

I have a copy of songwriter´s market from 2006 and it´s the biggest waste of my money ever. Mostly because it seems to be written towards the American market and I´m in Europe. Never version´s might be good - I dunno - I never cared to check. Back on track now...

I know that songquarters.com and/or hitquarters.com is alive and breathing but I cannot tell you how much value you get for your money there.
If your work is good - I would try to contact some big shot managers right on. Look at the big songwriters. Google their management. Send them your 3 best tracks and a bio. They might not take you into their portfolio but they might pass you on to a less known friend up and coming. And that way you WILL BE HEARD. But then again; it has to be great stuff. A potential hit song or two. If the song is a buster you will hear from them. But keep in mind that these guys gets stuff all the time. If it ain´t blowing their toupee off from bar two they will stop it and use their precious time on what they do for a living.
You will only get ONE first impression opportunity. Be VERY wary of what you are sending out.

Be professional. No excuses. To quote future music magazine - wich actually just had an article on how to earn money from your music:
"Be calm and professional - as you paddle hard beneath the surface."

You can buy that issue for your iPad on appstore. Just search future music magazine in the appstore.

There is so much more that could have been said but it boils down to...
Having great songs/productions. To quote Mikkel Eriksen of Stargate:
"You gotta have such great songs that they cannot say no."
It´s so true. It´s an whole industry out there looking for the next fantastic hit. In the meantime they sell what passes their bar in lack of the next fantastic hit song. If you got that song you´re golden. Very few will turn that down. Although Britney Spears management turned down Umbrella when they was offered the song. Beat that! oO

Best of luck!

This is pretty interesting. Thanks for that.

I am aware 90% of this is WHO you know. One thing I've learned (and I learned it the very hard way) is that you do not necessarily need to be even that great - only good enough. This fact made no sense to me at all for many years. Granted there are some super talented and truly gifted people out there but my experience is that, by and large, you do not need to be super gifted to make it an ANY field - just know the correct people who might have an interest in helping you. Dumb but unfortunately true.

Because of my label, I am fortunate to know a few industry people. They may be 1 or 2 degrees removed from the right folks but I am reaching out them any way. All know me as a long time artist who is consistent and current musically and works very hard. I also learn fast.

In the meantime I am going to submit stuff the way everyone else does too because I cannot rely on anything at this point.

I would judge this as both an exciting and very scary time in my career. LOL.

Thanks guys...all very good advice as usual.

[brockorama]

I would be interested in music 180 and whether anyone has submitted anything there ? I have watched the videos but can't find any feedback anywhere. I know Kara deguardi (sp?) from idol accepts submissions and other industry types (one from a pensado episode). Anyone had any dealings with music180 ??

[Roisky]

Originally Posted by Breaks Dude

LOL.

For example... https://twitter.com/LisaDavisMusic/s...24735508037634

[theblue1]

I'm afraid, in the real world of the music biz, it's all about connections.

Managers and publishers you really have to watch out for. A lot of them are the worst kind of scum. They'll sign you up on hopes and dreams and then lock up your work for years while they twiddle their thumbs or look for the perfect 16 year old hottie to start pimping up. The music biz is seriously a vile snake pit of people who will screw you into the ground and not think twice about it. It's what they do.


Frankly, as long as I've been observing (of course, I'm a songwriter, as well), the best ways I've seen to get over are to be in a hard-working, hard-touring band with a good and growing fan base or, alternatively, to also develop other skills that will put you in demand with other working and recording musicians who you can then pitch your songs to. Probably my most successful 3DW songwriter friend who's not in his own band started out as a sax player, but realized he'd get a lot more gigs playing stand up bass. And he's played with many of the major artists in his field (blues) and -- probably not coincidentally, has successfully pitched songs to a number of those artists. (He also is signed to a somewhat aggressive publisher; but that's no guarantee, one of my other pals had a very successful local band, ended up on that same publisher and then had them sit on his work for 7 years, doing nothing, while he couldn't do ANYTHING with it.)

Seriously, it's a tough biz.

I make music because I love music. I got out of the biz because it turned my gut.


[Gee, I hope I don't sound cynical or anything. ]

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by brockorama

I would be interested in music 180 and whether anyone has submitted anything there ? I have watched the videos but can't find any feedback anywhere. I know Kara deguardi (sp?) from idol accepts submissions and other industry types (one from a pensado episode). Anyone had any dealings with music180 ??

This business is filled with people who want to take your money in exchange for blowing hot air up your backside. I don't know much about Music180 -- but it looks just like dozens of other outfits that have sprung up trying to con musicians into spending money to give away their music -- or worse.

That said, they don't seem to charge up front, so that is certainly refreshing.

What does Music180 charge?

Pros: Pro accounts are free. Music180 enters into an 80/20 partnership with Pros for Services and Opportunities where Pros keep 80% of the revenue. Payments from sales are rendered ‘30 days end of month.’ Therefore all sales for any given calendar month are processed during the following month and payments are sent out at the end of that month.

Members: We do not charge for membership with Music180. We will be unveiling a new bundle of premium services in the future that members will have the option of buying for a low monthly subscription fee.

However, it does look like they are hoping to make their money off of 'pros' selling 'services' to 'members... so money WILL be changing hands...

Once I buy a service, what process takes place?

1) Once a member clicks on “Buy Service,” they are taken to a page where they can upload media (songs, videos, images, documents) or choose media from their personal vault to submit to the pro. Members can also write a message to be sent to the Pro detailing specifics about their song/video/document.
2) Once submitted and paid for, the pro receives an email notification that someone has purchased one of their services and gives them instant access to the uploaded media and message. The member receives notification for a successful submission.
3) Depending on the service purchased, the pro will then carry out the selected service within the turnaround time (if applicable). Notification of a completed service will be sent to the member.
4) The pro will be paid cumulatively at the end of the month and the member will receive feedback (if applicable). If the pro likes what he hears, he may want to establish a more long-term relationship and will contact the member through his/her Music180 account.

I've seen this stuff come and go for years now. Just once, I'd like to see one of these outfits stick around. But, by and large, they don't. Something to ponder.



(The primary exception to that is TAXI, which has been around for a long time but which never seems to rise above its peculiar niche. I've run into a lot of folks who subscribed for a year or two but I'm not sure if I've run into more than one who was on the service more than two years. And I think I've only ever run into one person online who's placed anything through them. That said, they're quite up front about what they do. It's not cheap, and at a songwriting forum I participate in that has a workshop orientation, more than a few ex-TAXI members have suggested they have received better, free, 'crowd-sourced' critiques from the assorted forum members than they got from the paid song submission critiques that TAXI gives. But at least TAXI seems pretty straight up. Whether its worth it to a given artist is a question that can't be answered here.)

[wakestyle]

Originally Posted by Breaks Dude

So now you've written a bunch of pop-type songs, a few of them actually passable. You don't have a band, aren't a "performer" so-to-speak and don't wish to develop new talent on your own. What do you do with them?

I see a lot of tips on songwriting here and they are very informative, but who do you get in touch with once you have a portfolio of work? And HOW do you get in touch with them? Mail? Email? Facebook?

Having decent songs is nice but, with no idea how to pitch them, it's like having a really nice new car in your garage but the garage door is nailed shut.

Well, I think if you have decent demo songs done and layed out well, the next step is to make sure all the parts are recorded up-to-snuff, and try to make your mixes as large-format as necessary..

After that is off to the mastering house, then you can release it privately or publicly... If anyone would take you up, nonetheless if it's done and it's awesome, it's something you can show-off anytime you like... Whether you need it to promote a music career or not..

[johnny nowhere]

Sounds to me like theblue1 has been around the block a few times, too. One thing is for sure: You're not going to get anything accomplished immediately, you have to be in the business for the long haul.

It basically boils down to two choices, either shop around for a publisher until you can find one who believes in your work as strongly as you do, and who then will be more than glad to pitch your tunes to all of their connections (naturally, since they're going to be pulling in at least a 50% publishers split on future royalties), or you can set up a publishing domain, plug the songs yourself, and receive both writer and publisher splits...assuming you make the connections and have written a hit that sells millions of copies and gets played on terrestial radio at least a gazillion times; something that, in this day and age, isn't likely to befall you.

I'm not trying to piss in your thermos, here. I just want you to realise that patience and a strong sense of business etiquette will get you places, but I'm also aware that most people simply expect results too quickly and then get frustrated and then quit trying. And music is a business. There's a saying here in Nashville, "It can take years to make a good name for yourself, but you can make a bad name for yourself overnight." So a good sense of 'people skills' is imperative. You're going to be a salesman...and you're going to be selling yourself before anything else.

Music attorneys and artists managers, as well as producers, are all great folks to pitch to, provided you can get to know them. They all want their acts to have hits, because that keeps them in business. Anything beats trying to get an appointment with some hot-shot A&R asswipe who knows that he holds your life in his hands and enjoys watching you squirm. But it can take years to acquire these other connections. You have to be savvy, and above all, you have to be clever without being desperate.

[AstroZon]

Originally Posted by Roisky

For example... https://twitter.com/LisaDavisMusic/s...24735508037634

Are those real people?

I used to get ads in the form of comments on SoundCloud that looked just like those. They'd always say something like. "l like your song but it needs a little work. Contact me. So and So Song Publishing." Then there would be a picture of a really attractive woman.

I just wondered how much money they were going to hit me up for.

[johnny nowhere]

Yeah, she's real. She is the president and A&R consultant for Lisa Davis Music Management out in Los Angeles, according to her LinkedIn profile. I'll bet that if I checked, she also has a publishing domain listed with one of the PROs. Good luck pitching to her and getting all 50% of your writer royalties.

addendum: Whoa. She must be somebody, because when I expanded her 'Linked' list, she is connected with almost every industry professional who I'm linked in with...and then some. She must be in A&R for Atlantic/Interscope Records, too. Looks as if she throws bait out on her Facebook Business page as well:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lisa-...cgroup?fref=ts

[Roisky]

Originally Posted by AstroZon

Are those real people?

I used to get ads in the form of comments on SoundCloud that looked just like those. They'd always say something like. "l like your song but it needs a little work. Contact me. So and So Song Publishing." Then there would be a picture of a really attractive woman.

I just wondered how much money they were going to hit me up for.

Oh, yes. Lisa Davis is very real. And there are more on there. Here's another one who is always accepting songs. Director of A&R at Atlantic Records. https://twitter.com/jeffreybvaughn

You just have to do your research on these people first and make sure they're the real deal.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by johnny nowhere

Sounds to me like theblue1 has been around the block a few times, too. [...]

More I've watched others get driven around the block until their head is spinning and then dumped in a bad part of time.

I saw the writing on the wall early on -- I wasn't a very accomplished musician/performer (and rather a mix as a writer) when I started engineering and producing, so I didn't really consider putting myself into the big machine. But I watched clients and others get chewed up and spit out.

I've always thought it highly instructive that, in the music biz, most folks find a way to make money -- except for the musicians. There are exceptions of course. And, just like the lottery winners that keep the suckers lined up at the Kwik-E-Mart paying what the politicians (in private) call the "stupidity tax" -- those exceptions seem to fuel the soon-to-be-crushed dreams and fantasies of millions of aspirants to fame and fortune.


Me, now, I just make music. Because I love music.


But... sure... even cynical realists like myself want people -- someone -- to hear the music we make... so, you know... maybe we're not all in the same boat, but we seem to all be specks floating (for a while) on the same sea.



PS... And the rest of that that post from johnny nowhere was pretty solid! If you're going to pursue music as a business, you have to bring a professional level of game to the endeavor and be prepared for a long path. Also, have a backup plan. Or two.