Been breaking down more songs, learning more musical theory, and practicing piano. But alot of the time, when writing music, I still seem to get stuck doing the same or similar chord timing and/or melody changes? Im using different scales and different chord patterns, but it seems to keep sounding similar in the end. Anyone else have this problem once in awhile? Any tips?
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Just challenge yourself with some fun rules. Write a song with no I chord in the chorus. Don't allow the same song structures V/C/V/C/B/C/C as you already done. If you write on guitar, try some alternate tunings etc. Pick up a new instrument and compose on it. Just forbid the things you do too often and you will be forced into something new.
Try creating melodies in your head without using any kind of instruments. Harmonize them in your head as well. Listen to music you don't regularly listen to.
A scale has only 7 notes, and a lot of melodies are pentatonic (only 5 notes).
Similarly, a scale really only has 6 usable chords.
There are only so many places that people place chords. On the 1 or the 3. Sometimes they're syncopated. You may have a new chord every measure, or let one go for 2 measures.
You're working with a finite number of musical variables here. Are you 'writing' on just the piano, or are you composing tracks with a whole bunch of different textures? If the former, then yeah, it's all gonna sound pretty similar.
jdsowa - I know all that. Alot more then 6 chords can be made in 1 scale though. And yes I'm using different textures, synths, piano, etc... I guess my post was moreso to be generalized as to. How do you guys break out of a mold of stuff you always seem to do?
Are you 'writing' on just the piano, or are you composing tracks with a whole bunch of different textures? If the former, then yeah, it's all gonna sound pretty similar.
I have this problem sometimes where I realize that two of the songs I'm working on are really similar. When that happens I either combine the best elements of each together or just scrap one. Or if I really want to try to salvage it I try to figure out a way to change one so they're not so similar.
It's all a part of the process of revision. If the stuff you're coming up with intuitively tends to feel a bit samey, you can then consciously go through and find ways to mix things up. Try chord substitutions, changing the groove, slowing down or speeding up the melody, change the melody so it has more movement or less movement, what happens if you constrain the melody to only 3 notes, etc. All you have to do is figure out why they're sounding similar and then work on changing up those elements.
It can also help to find songs you like that sound different than what you're writing and try to mimc them. Pick a song and then start playing along with it in the same tempo and groove. Then improvise your own melody and chords in that style. I think getting stuck in a rut like that can sometimes come from starting too much with a blank slate and not having something in mind beforehand. Then your muscle memory just kicks in so you start to strum in the same old pattern at the same tempo that you've done 1000 times.
Some chord change I haven't used before, some melodic idea.
Then (generally) that becomes the 'signature' of the song. Not necessarily the hook, just the thing that defines the song. And then (often) it becomes part of my repertoire, and gets incorporated into songs all the time.
Example: IV-bVI as in I-V-IV-bVI or ii-bv as in I-III7sus4-ii7-bv7
Both of these were new changes to me when I first used them and were the centerpiece of the songs they were in. Since then I've incorporated them and they crop up in songs all the time but not as the centerpiece.
I like to think when a chord progression gets too boring -- where else could this go, and were would that take me. And then run with it, even if it sounds a bit nuts. After all, if you can get back to the ii or the V (or the VI/vi to get to the ii, etc) you're home.
Some knowledg of jazz progressions is enormously helpful even if you don't want to sound remotely jazzy.
Honestly I don't think this is such a terrible thing. My voice really on works well in one key, or at least im most comfortable in one key. I've written 3 songs with the exact same progression. There are infinite melody possibilities over the same 4 chords. Take someone who is at the top of their game right now, Ryan Tedder. His songs follow very similar patterns, and his "voice" can be heard in many of his songs. With "Halo" by Beyonce, he uses the same 4 chord progression throughout most of the song. I think sometimes we get so caught up in coming up with interesting chords and changes, that we over look the simplicity of a couple chords with a strong melody over them.
What I'm doing right now, in your same predicament: I'm learning part of the "Smile" album by Brian Wilson, a master songsmith. The 3 songs starting with "Wonderful". I'm at the piano, which is not my main instrument, and I'm making myself learn this music in the same keys. It is making me stretch my thinking about the power of:
1.chord inversions (not the root in the bass) and how they can provide lower counter movement to the melody
2.key changes, but not the usual "key change up a half step for the last chorus" type thing, no no! Brian is smoothly in and out of a key (seems to me) about every 4 to 8 measures or so. I'm also paying attention to what chords he 'pivots' with to make the change. I'm telling you this is a real clinic.
3.Like someone else has mentioned, there are chords out there waiting for you to use that aren't the straight I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-vii. These are the dominants: 11ths and 13ths (very nice subs for straight V chords), sustained chords, etc The list is too exhaustive.
As an example of 11ths: next time you do a song in C, instead of landing on G or G7 for the V, try F/G which means F chord with G in the bass. If I'm on guitar I "crowfoot": the thumbs comes up to grab the G note, the other fingers do the F, my pinkie does a high G, 3rd fret. That's G 11. Fun stuff. Works nicely to pivot the whole song up a half or whole step, too.
You don't have to change to anyone else's style of writing, but doing this with Brian Wilson's music is making me stretch alot and I will be adding all this to my toolbox.
I think initialsbb had a very useful tip. Take a song you like with a different chord progression/feel from your own and mimic it. Try taking some of your melody lines and revising them to fit the copied song's mold. Do this with several different songs, maybe even from different generas. This will give you new melodic ideas, and get you comfortable with new chord progressions.
Best solution for getting out of a rut is playing with other musicians. Go to an open mic/open jam, or invite some musician friends over to play. Unless they are far below your skill level you are practically guaranteed to get some new ideas and inspiration.
Another thing that helped me when I got hung up on music theory and always using I IV V ii iii vi chords in all the songs was to realize... You can just ignore that. Start throwing in chords out of the key. If you put them in the right sequence you can go from chord to chord to chord and none of them are actually related to each other in the "music theory" sense of using the same accidentals etc. Anyways, this is how we got jazz. You gotta break out of the box of your thinking though.
Just keep writing and this will run it's course out of shear boredome I think. I go through it but disguise it with production. No-one has ever noticed that I use the same damn chords all the time.
Some people say I have a signature to my sound and I think it's the chords so this problem is not necessarily a problem at all.
Just keep writing and this will run it's course out of shear boredome I think. I go through it but disguise it with production. No-one has ever noticed that I use the same damn chords all the time.
Some people say I have a signature to my sound and I think it's the chords so this problem is not necessarily a problem at all.
I'm with you, man.
Never was much of a player....those cowboy chords are my friends.
So I just keep writing the same song over and over again in the hope that this time I'll get it right.
Seriously, though, BB had some great insight for this in an above post. Don't let it stop you. Keep writing.
__________________ "The main thing is to have a gutsy approach....but use your head." Julia Child
"i was not looking at what it was doing, i just kept going till it sounded full." jamesyeah "Sometimes invisible are these glistening threads........" Janni Littlepage
look up the song "4 chords" by axis of awesome. Clearly repetitive chord progressions don't hinder successful artists. However I've noticed the same thing myself, and what always helps me is seeking the musical insight of another artist. Go on youtube and look up a tutorial video of an artist for how to play a certain song. With youtube these days you can learn so much it's ridiculous.
Now THAT´s a great advise. Not too many writes melodies first nowadays. Benny ANderson (ABBA) did it a lot. Take a look at the chords of Super Trouper. Obviously that melody was written first.
You're working with a finite number of musical variables here. Are you 'writing' on just the piano, or are you composing tracks with a whole bunch of different textures? If the former, then yeah, it's all gonna sound pretty similar.
When I had access to a piano, I wrote 80% of my stuff on it.
Don't blame the piano. That's silly.
I agree that working with a single timbre is tricky. But writing on piano will "force" you use techniques you didn't need before. If you're just moving parallel triads up and down the keyboard, yes it'll all sound the same. You might need to voice-lead the chords and flesh out the harmony to give each piece its own character.
Or maybe try changing keys every four measures. Or maybe base the song on a rhythmic ostinato, maybe beat one is always a rest, maybe it's in 5/4, maybe the IV chord is always minor, maybe the V chord always has a (b9) (like George Harrison's "I Want to Tell You"), maybe the II chord is always major and it always has a third in the bass and it always moves to the IV chord (like most of Elliot Smith's songs).
Maybe the left hand doubles the vocal melody in the bass while the right hand jabs staccato chords on the downbeats. Maybe you just play a single melody on the piano and that's all. Maybe you open up the piano and yell into its body.
Maybe every 4th bar you just mash the keys with your forearms.
A scale has only 7 notes, and a lot of melodies are pentatonic (only 5 notes).
Similarly, a scale really only has 6 usable chords.
There are only so many places that people place chords. On the 1 or the 3. Sometimes they're syncopated. You may have a new chord every measure, or let one go for 2 measures.
You're working with a finite number of musical variables here. Are you 'writing' on just the piano, or are you composing tracks with a whole bunch of different textures? If the former, then yeah, it's all gonna sound pretty similar.
Sorry, but all of this is terrible "advice" for anyone looking to create unique music.
I start with something I think is strong and keep writing/composing. When I am out of inspiration/ideas. I force myself to keep writing no matter what. I think of ANYTHING at all to keep writing. Before I know it something is triggered in the forced work I am doing and I am away again.
Over a period of 6 months it is common for me to be stuck at least once a week. But I just force it through.
You have to be determined for this method. But it works, and its coming from someone who actually does it.
I had the same problem for years. No matter what, every time I sat down by the keyboard, the same old sh.. came out. I don't remember how I came to think of it, but at one point I realized that a lot of the music I listened to was made by people that didn't really play very well. For instance, Chris Martin in Coldplay is just an average guitar and keyboard player, but he makes really amazing music. Paul Waaktaar-Savoy of A-ha has made some of A-ha's best songs, but he was never really good at playing the guitar - and certainly not in 1985 when they released their first album.
I consider myself to be a skilled keyboard player, but I am a terrible guitar player, so naturally I decided to sit down with the guitar and try composing some new music. And guess what, the music I compose on the guitar is completely different, and also much more varied and a lot more interesting than the music I create on my keyboards! So if you have a second instrument, try to make some new music on that one instead. It may not work for everyone, but it sure did for me..
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