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The thin line between a musician/composer and a producer wannabe
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Jose
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#1
6th February 2012
Old 6th February 2012
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The thin line between a musician/composer and a producer wannabe

Nowadays everybody records his own music at home.

That's great, but some that were initially guitar players, singers, keyboard players, composers etc...get lost in gear lust and in the quest for the perfect recording, mix, mastering, you get the point.

I think it is right, but some of them spend more time tweaking knobs than practicing their chops, obviously it deppends on your style of music.

I am finding people complaining about their mixes and don't realize that their music lacks of interest or it is performed in a very bad way(no I am not a virtuous, I wish).They care more for their sound quality than their musical quality, some spend more time editing and tweaking the sound to sound good than practicing to nail it with a good take.

I am at the point that I prefer spend my time practicing and playing composing or whatever instead of one week mixing a song.If I want pro mixing I better look for a pro mixer.

#2
7th February 2012
Old 7th February 2012
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Does it really matter?

It's the same old philosophical situation... duality, objectivity and subjectivity.

Subjectively it doesn't matter because if a person is happy doing what they do then no-one can tell them its wrong (or right) it just is.
Objectively (and also dualistically) the context defines the rightness or wrongness of an action. So if a person (or group of people) decide to do something in a certain way their actions are dictated by the situation they are in. Having said that, there are no wrong or right ways, just ways and breaking the rules or complying only become relevant when somebody is there to make a judgement... it's all a bit 'Schrodinger's Cat'
Schrodinger's Cat - YouTube

So you make a statement about what you believe to be a better way but for me the point is moot, because if a person is subjectively happy then who am I to tell that person it's not the best way.

I think what I'm saying is... 'It's all good'.
#3
7th February 2012
Old 7th February 2012
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I think that one of the most important thing to remember is that for loads of people this is hobby. So I agree what Kelvyn is saying, if it makes you happy thats it. I know that I'm not the best guitarist, vocalist, keyboard player, songwriter, mixer or producer, but it doesn't stop me doing it. It's a hobby for me, and I don't have any kind of interest to spend enough time on it to raise myself to professional level. I already have a profession that came out from hobby, and knowing how much time and effort it takes, I'm totally happy to keep myself in hobbyist level. Though that doesn't stop me from dreaming of writing the next big hit song, touring around the world, groupies running after me, or hanging around in gearslutz and wondering what gear should I buy next. It's all part of the hobby.

On the professional side of things, I would assume that professional knows on what area he/she is pro. So I would assume that there isn't this passing between different work chairs.
#4
7th February 2012
Old 7th February 2012
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the music should always come first. anyone can buy lumber and tools, but not everyone can build a house
Jose
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7th February 2012
Old 7th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvyn View Post
Does it really matter?

It's the same old philosophical situation... duality, objectivity and subjectivity.

Subjectively it doesn't matter because if a person is happy doing what they do then no-one can tell them its wrong (or right) it just is.
Objectively (and also dualistically) the context defines the rightness or wrongness of an action. So if a person (or group of people) decide to do something in a certain way their actions are dictated by the situation they are in. Having said that, there are no wrong or right ways, just ways and breaking the rules or complying only become relevant when somebody is there to make a judgement... it's all a bit 'Schrodinger's Cat'
Schrodinger's Cat - YouTube

So you make a statement about what you believe to be a better way but for me the point is moot, because if a person is subjectively happy then who am I to tell that person it's not the best way.

I think what I'm saying is... 'It's all good'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmob83 View Post
I think that one of the most important thing to remember is that for loads of people this is hobby. So I agree what Kelvyn is saying, if it makes you happy thats it. I know that I'm not the best guitarist, vocalist, keyboard player, songwriter, mixer or producer, but it doesn't stop me doing it. It's a hobby for me, and I don't have any kind of interest to spend enough time on it to raise myself to professional level. I already have a profession that came out from hobby, and knowing how much time and effort it takes, I'm totally happy to keep myself in hobbyist level. Though that doesn't stop me from dreaming of writing the next big hit song, touring around the world, groupies running after me, or hanging around in gearslutz and wondering what gear should I buy next. It's all part of the hobby.

On the professional side of things, I would assume that professional knows on what area he/she is pro. So I would assume that there isn't this passing between different work chairs.
If they complain about their music I understand they are not happy, don't you think?Of course I am not telling what's wrong and right!
restpause
#6
8th February 2012
Old 8th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose View Post
Nowadays everybody records his own music at home.

That's great, but some that were initially guitar players, singers, keyboard players, composers etc...get lost in gear lust and in the quest for the perfect recording, mix, mastering, you get the point.

I think it is right, but some of them spend more time tweaking knobs than practicing their chops, obviously it deppends on your style of music.

I am finding people complaining about their mixes and don't realize that their music lacks of interest or it is performed in a very bad way(no I am not a virtuous, I wish).They care more for their sound quality than their musical quality, some spend more time editing and tweaking the sound to sound good than practicing to nail it with a good take.

I am at the point that I prefer spend my time practicing and playing composing or whatever instead of one week mixing a song.If I want pro mixing I better look for a pro mixer.

Jose, I understand what you are saying. I see this happening a lot with many other people and I struggle with it myself.

At this point, I have begun to go back into music theory studying. In fact just today I bought a second music theory book.

I did this because I have everything I need to make interesting and trippy sounds, but I don't yet fully know how to make a good strong MUSICAL composition. I really like fancy chord progressions and harmony. I am not interested in boring repetitive layers or trite/familiar rock music with traditional guitar/bass/drums/vox.

My ultimate goal is to sound somewhere between trip hop and a really good modern movie soundtrack. I am just not at that level yet.

I've learned what I need to about synthesis and mixing and editing and sequencing and maintaining a DAW. So I'm a typical example of a tech-head type of guy who wishes he made better MUSIC!

I was lucky enough to have had a musical education back in high school, but I've forgotten so much of it that it's time for me to re-educate.

A lot of music being made these days is all sound and no substance. But as more of us go into music theory (as well as synthesis/mixing/editing), there will be more good music in the future.

Don't give up hope. Keep learning and keep encouraging others to learn. Peace
#7
8th February 2012
Old 8th February 2012
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Please don't get me wrong, I think theory and practice can be very important things. But it's not the only path to creating/making better music. There are a lot of very talented musicians out there who can play incredibly well but who aren't able to free themselves from what they have learnt and therefore get imprisoned in a modal/rule dominated cage. Once you have learnt all that you need you still have to look inside your head and create freely unfettered by what you have learnt... One of the most successful producers/songwriter/musician I know in Germany (he had one of the biggest selling songs of all time there) works intuitively and not what a lot of people would call professionally. He's got everything in his head and when getting other people to record his stuff he communicates on a kinda hand and foot basis... it works He doesn't care how he gets there he just goes for it and has never been plagued by musicianitis. It's a great attitude and see's him (and others like him) just flowing, unrestrained by the thought of what is and what should be.
I suck at everything (playing wise) and have no technical knowledge but have been professional these last 30 years. I can't however compose a film score in one day (like some of my contemporaries) but given the time (not often... deadlines, Aaargh!) I can come up with some interesting stuff. It's a huge playing field we are in where anything goes.
Anyway! Good luck to you with any route you choose to take
#8
16th February 2012
Old 16th February 2012
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i think part of it is simply that as more people record at home they become disillusioned that they can't put something together that sounds as good as commercial stuff.

Sure most of the time even if the song was all it could be, it still isn't good enough (or close to it). That doesn't mean they don't have the potential to write great songs, its a process. But its nice to hear them sound good, frustrating when you can't.

You're right though, most of it is not pro audio gear related (with the exception of vocals, some other stuff).
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