Stav's "Mixing With Your Mind" Hit Record Formula

[Darc]

All these books about how to succeed...are just smart peoples ways of "mining the miners". For example, who do you think had the most success at the time of the big goldrush era ? surprise, it were all the suppliers around the diggers like bagel bakeries, hardware traders, goldresellers and *****s. The digger in almost every case ended up poor or beaten dead. Becoming very successful means to think outside the stream - you might argue that I´m OT but I´m not - think about it.

[El-Burrito]

Originally Posted by ghostwriter

Michael Paul Stavrou in his book "Mixing With Your Mind" claims he discovered the Hit Record Formula.

Has anyone broken the secret formula?

Have you read The Manual by KLF?
Step by step guide how to score No.1 hit. They made it multiple times and then burnt 1million pounds on bonfire just to prove a point :D

Here's documentary on how they did it and the money burning. The Manual pdf version is around internet.

Funny stuff :D

[wwjd]

I've created my own short list...

HOOK in order of importance:
1. song title - INITIAL attraction
2. melody - grab quickly like a 15 sec AD
3. lyric - the meat that can stick later

hook melody:
- could you play NAME THAT TUNE with it?
- can you hum it in the shower
- whistle it at work?
- infect others with it?

Hit song:
2-3 min
short intro
20 second verse
Hook: title should start [or end] the chorus and be used 2 plus times
Hook: chorus rounds on major chords
every line supports message/story - stay focused, never wonder off
practice: 50-100 creative example points about each song. then use the best ones
should be colorful, visual, invoke common memories
ABABCBB ABAB AABAB etc
AVOID ALL CLICHES!!!! If it's cliche, change it! CHANGE IT NOW!!!

[lobsterinn]

Originally Posted by wwjd

I've created my own short list...

HOOK in order of importance:
1. song title - INITIAL attraction
2. melody - grab quickly like a 15 sec AD
3. lyric - the meat that can stick later

hook melody:
- could you play NAME THAT TUNE with it?
- can you hum it in the shower
- whistle it at work?
- infect others with it?

Hit song:
2-3 min
short intro
20 second verse
Hook: title should start [or end] the chorus and be used 2 plus times
Hook: chorus rounds on major chords
every line supports message/story - stay focused, never wonder off
practice: 50-100 creative example points about each song. then use the best ones
should be colorful, visual, invoke common memories
ABABCBB ABAB AABAB etc
AVOID ALL CLICHES!!!! If it's cliche, change it! CHANGE IT NOW!!!

You just ended a list of cliches with a command to avoid all cliches.

[Hardtoe]

Originally Posted by wwittman

I'm not "complaining".
just expressing my opinion as to its relative value.

So you read it and you disagree with his perspective & knowledge?

I feel I completely got my money's worth from what I took away from the book.

[highvoltage]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

Let me end this thread nicely.

If he knew the hit formula to make hit songs, he'd have a bunch of hits on the radio, and wouldn't be selling a book.

Case Closed.

[Happy Musicfan]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

Let me end this thread nicely.

If he knew the hit formula to make hit songs, he'd have a bunch of hits on the radio, and wouldn't be selling a book.

Case Closed.

Much like those books on how to systematically pick the winning lottery numbers. The author can't do it, but for a price, we all *can* !


Btw, when's your next album coming out ? And will you be giving any of us purists some of that Lago vocal smoothness with less processing of the vocal tracks ?

[wwjd]

Originally Posted by lobsterinn

You just ended a list of cliches with a command to avoid all cliches.

ha good one. it means in the LYRICs
structure is the just rules to be in the game

[beatflux]

For those who have read the book:

He gives away some of the secrets in the book. He never explicitly says anything is a secret, but he strongly hints at things.

Black background is one

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

If he knew the hit formula to make hit songs, he'd have a bunch of hits on the radio, and wouldn't be selling a book.

That's not necessarily true at all. Not that I believe he really has any secrets, but even if somebody did recognize certain common elements among pop songs that still doesn't mean that it's easy to write a hit or that that person has what it takes to actually execute those "rules" that they've discovered.

[Waxavub]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

Well bingo, you just said it. He doesn't have a hit formula, he doesn't even have 1 song on the charts right now. Are you saying that if I know moreso what constitutes a hit song, that I can make a book and sell it to song-hungry people? Like the author, I have no songs on the charts in the US, but I think I know how hit songs are made. Does that make me worthy of writing a book?!? Don't you think at one point, someone needs to draw the line?

Does he even having any mixing credits? I mean come on, this book is ridiculous! I read some of it and entertainment value aside, I really hope no one actually mixes like he suggests. I'd rather listen to advice from real pros instead.

A person like yourself asking if Stav is really a pro is the funniest thing i have seen in a long time on here.

[Hardtoe]

Hey Lago, remember when you slagged that random guy on gearslutz and he turned out to be a house music legend and one of your heros?

This is kinda like that - you are way off the mark once again.

Stav was an engineer at Air in London for 10 years and the foreword is written by George Martin who was his boss.

You may have heard of him.

One day perhaps you will have embarrassed yourself enough to learn a little humility and respect for those who came before you.

[beau_mckee]

Honestly I have read numerous excerpts from his book in Audio technology magazine, and his approach and ideas are nothing short of inspiring and exciting. Heard many great things of the book ad only good feedback hear in Australia from my engineer buddies

[Deltones]

Personally, the fact the book doesn't give a nice convenient spreadsheet for the secrets behind hits doesn't bother me. One thing that did bother me in the book though is that the interesting concept of matching hard mic to soft sounds and vice-versa is barely explained. Is an SM57 a hard mic or a soft mic? Is Sinatra's voice a hard sound or a soft sound? I have no freaking clue because he didn't give a single example. Nevertheless, I really enjoyed the book.

[Happy Musicfan]

Apparently the author isn't tempting people with exorbitant promises after all. Apparently the author has some major credentials.

Sorry if I jumped on the bandwagon of hyperactive skepticism too soon.



But is there any *successful* musical artist who read his book and then charted an *actual* hit song ? And did this artist later endorse or recommend the book by any chance ? Scrutinizing minds want to know.

[Hardtoe]

Originally Posted by Deltones

Personally, the fact the book doesn't give a nice convenient spreadsheet for the secrets behind hits doesn't bother me. One thing that did bother me in the book though is that the interesting concept of matching hard mic to soft sounds and vice-versa is barely explained. Is an SM57 a hard mic or a soft mic? Is Sinatra's voice a hard sound or a soft sound? I have no freaking clue because he didn't give a single example. Nevertheless, I really enjoyed the book.

How does the mic sound on a source? Is it hard or soft?

You make that call, as it is your mic collection, not Stav's.

A large point of this book is about learning how to listen - if you try you can start to classify your own mics based on your personal listening experience.

You don't have to mix like Stav does (I don't) but the lessons on how to find the best sounds by listening for them have stuck with me.

[Deltones]

Originally Posted by Hardtoe

How does the mic sound on a source? Is it hard or soft?

You make that call, as it is your mic collection, not Stav's.

Not so sure about that one. For example, here's what SoS wrote about this:

Given that Stavrou avoids technical explanations, I think it is a shame that no audio examples were provided here to exemplify the differences between 'hard' and 'soft' sounds, for instance, as this distinction is at the heart of his strategy for choosing mics.

So this oversight is something that apparently bother other readers too.

[Hardtoe]

Originally Posted by Deltones

Not so sure about that one. For example, here's what SoS wrote about this:



So this oversight is something that apparently bother other readers too.

I bet if you email him, you could get an answer - he seems pretty good about answering questions related to the book....

I emailed him about speaker placement once and he got right back to me and we had several follow up emails.

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

Like the author, I have no songs on the charts in the US, but I think I know how hit songs are made. Does that make me worthy of writing a book?!?

Sure, why not? You could write a book and it would probably sell! Do you think writers have to be licensed or something? As far as I can tell, his book wasn't even professionally published, it's just self published so yeah, anybody can do that.

[fremantlerecords]

Let's please not let this amazing thread die young!

[jeffreyheart]

I'm just catching up here... What was the secret formula again? My friend needs to know.

[Benprogfuse]

Originally Posted by wwjd

I've created my own short list...

Hit song:
2-3 min
short intro
20 second verse
Hook: title should start [or end] the chorus and be used 2 plus times
Hook: chorus rounds on major chords
every line supports message/story - stay focused, never wonder off
practice: 50-100 creative example points about each song. then use the best ones
ABABCBB ABAB AABAB etc
.

That's funny.... I would have to say that is a complete list of everything that I do NOT like about a song....


but then again, my favorite band is The Mars Volta.....

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by Benprogfuse

That's funny.... I would have to say that is a complete list of everything that I do NOT like about a song....


but then again, my favorite band is The Mars Volta.....

He was talking about top 10 hits.

[Benprogfuse]

Originally Posted by initialsBB

He was talking about top 10 hits.

I knew that. I was just making a statement.

[wwittman]

Originally Posted by Hardtoe

...

Stav was the lead engineer at Air in London for many years and the foreword is written by George Martin who was his boss.

I know he was indeed an AIR engineer;
but define "lead engineer"

that was an actual title?

... just in the interest of accuracy.

[Hardtoe]

I tried to find the source for that memory, but I could not locate it at the moment, so it is possible/likely that I misremembered this title.

I thought it was in George Martin's foreword, but I was wrong - Martin does however compliment Stav's engineering approach and praises his books focus on using the brain as the primary mixing tool (intelligence being the key element in allowing an engineer to work the gear to it's full potential).

What is a fact is that Stav worked at Air for 10 years on a vast array of projects.

His credits are easy to find if you google his name - he looks to have done a bunch of work with the Pretenders, Cat Stevens, John Williams, Souisie Soux, etc - a collection of engineering and mixing credits with a splash of production.

Mike Stavrou Credits - ARTISTdirect Music

Mike Stavrou - Album Credits

Mike Stavrou Discography at Discogs

He also designed the ergonomics for the Smart Av Console (SmartAV )

Stav has also invented a water saving shower head (New Inventors: Every Drop Shower Saver) and does a little magic on the side.

Hopefully that covers it - it's all I know anyway, but it should now be accurate...

[BlackBackDrop]

Originally Posted by beatflux

Black background is one

Close!

[Benprogfuse]

The ultimate formula for a hit is to have the radio stations play your song over and over and over every ten minutes until your song becomes annoying. Then the majority of the population will assume that your song must be good and that it is popular because they keep hearing your song on the radio, then they will have to go out and purchase it/buy it on iTunes/Pirate it. Then when January comes, you may have a really good chance of winning a Grammy.

That is honestly how the average person is today. They like things because they are told to like them. They subconsciously want to do what everybody else is doing.

[Roman Rowlands]

Originally Posted by ghostwriter

Michael Paul Stavrou in his book "Mixing With Your Mind" claims he discovered the Hit Record Formula. Common denominators that ALL major hits include without exception. Every top 10 hit of every year for the last decade has these same rules applied to each of them, and he claims there are at least 7 ingredients that all of these hits have.

Has anyone broken the secret formula? Has anyone discovered traits that all hit records have in common?

Please let's try and keep on topic. Let's avoid the "I have no interest in writing formulaic music" comments. This is an exercise in the analysis of Top 10 Hits. Not a commentary on trying to copy a formula.

And if this topic doesn't interest you, rather than bashing it, please just find another thread. (I know this last statement is pointless, it's the Internet after all).

Q: How many hits has MPS got under his belt?

A: ...

Hit formula is short verses & simple catchy choruses. Did I nail it?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Gearslutz.com

[baskervils]

Originally Posted by Roman Rowlands

Hit formula is short verses & simple catchy choruses. Did I nail it?

and instrumentation, and sound, and singer, and arrangement, and timing, and management, and PR, and payola, and video, and touring, and, and, and, and....

A lot of money changes hands for songs to become hits. Probably too much.

There is a big difference between writing a song that you are personally going to be happy with and think is a "hit" for you and the process of getting something on the radio.