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Never Change [Lyric] - Need Some Feedback
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Wiguan
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#1
5th January 2012
Old 5th January 2012
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Never Change [Lyric] - Need Some Feedback

Since we have the songwriting section today, I guess I'll start with lyric.

One of my way of writing is to absorbed into other people songs to get the feeling, vibe and emotional state to write a lyric.

Today, this is the song that I use.

?????? (Kimi wo Shirukoto)
http://soundcloud.com/cool-music-production/kimi-wo-shirukoto

I'll probably produce the same genre and the same mood, just altering the melody while the chord progression will still the same. (Well depends)

This song will be for a female artist to sing.
I don't even have the right title yet.

So here it is.

Quote:
Verses:

Looking at the sky,
Putting all my hope upon the wind,
I don't know if they will,
Coming true one day.

Never mind, I'm happy now,
With what I have today,
To have a person like you,
Near, inside my heart.

Bridge:

There might be some times,
I'll doubting you.
But you are always there,
Inside my heart.

There might be some day,
I'll cry 'coz of you.
I promise that my feeling,
Won't fade away from you.

Chorus:

'Coz my love for you is true.
Never ever changing.
I will treasure you alone,
No one else inside my heart.

Even the days you're not here,
I will always waiting.
Looking at the empty street,
Till the day that we will meet again.


Bridge 2:

I will waiting for you, here.
No matter how long it will be.
'Coz after all, you're the reason of my life.

Expecting constructive critics.
English is my second language though.

Update on 24th January 2012

I finally come out with this lyric as my final product.
I know it could be better, but time is running out.
I will learn more as experience go.

So, thank you for all the critics and guidance. You guys are awesome!

Quote:
Verse 1 :

I look up at the blue sky,
Put my hopes on the wind.
I don’t know when I’ll be blessed,
For them to come true.

Verse 2 :
I just want you to know that,
I’m waiting for you here.
Perhaps this is my destiny,
To love you from far.

Reff :
There are some times,
I want to give up.
There are some days,
I’ll cry when I think of you,
Baby, I miss you…

Chorus :
Coz’ my love for you is true,
I promise nothing will ever change,
I will treasure you alone,
Baby, I love you…

All the days that you are not here,
I’m waiting all alone in my room,
Waiting for you to come back,
Baby, I miss you…
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5th January 2012
Old 5th January 2012
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I just read it real quick and heard the music, and to me those lyrics sound really generic and corny. I feel the same with that piano track.
Wiguan
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5th January 2012
Old 5th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
I just read it real quick and heard the musicc, and to me those lyrics sound really generic and corny. I feel the same with that piano track.
Noted.
Thanks, it seems the road still far.
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5th January 2012
Old 5th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiguan View Post
Noted.
Thanks, it seems the road still far.
I would say, try to think of lyrics that haven't been said, and be more specific with your songwriting.

Let me give you an example of some songwriting of mine that I find is strong:

Miserable Me (Chris Lago, Socan/Ascap)

We’re incompatible
Should have broken up long ago
Yet we stay and so
We make ourselves believe that both
Of us are meant to be
To me it’s so hard to believe
I think about you girl
Along with other girls

I’m caught in between
I thought we could be
Everything and more
For infinity
If she’d listen to me
She’d realize we’re
Incompatible
Now I’m miserable, miserable me

I caught you last night, you were drinking
And, tomorrow you were thinking
Of cheating on me like I do to you, and you and you
I’m not, the only one who’s thinking
That, our chemistry is missing
Cuz Nicole, and Jen and Amber
feel the same way too

I’m caught in between
I thought we could be
Everything and more
For infinity
If she’d listen to me
She’d realize we’re
Incompatible
Now I’m miserable, miserable me


Almost made it to the car crash
But then I steered away, I thought it would last
I was so stupid then and still will be
Today I realize I’m miserable, miserable me

---------------------------------------
See, this is really specific yet quite simple, I go straight to the point on this one (it's more Rock oriented), and the melodies are good too. It's generic in the subject matter, but not in the presentation.
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5th January 2012
Old 5th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
I would say, try to think of lyrics that haven't been said, and be more specific with your songwriting.

Let me give you an example of some songwriting of mine that I find is strong:

Miserable Me (Chris Lago, Socan/Ascap)

We’re incompatible
Should have broken up long ago
Yet we stay and so
We make ourselves believe that both
Of us are meant to be
To me it’s so hard to believe
I think about you girl
Along with other girls

I’m caught in between
I thought we could be
Everything and more
For infinity
If she’d listen to me
She’d realize we’re
Incompatible
Now I’m miserable, miserable me

I caught you last night, you were drinking
And, tomorrow you were thinking
Of cheating on me like I do to you, and you and you
I’m not, the only one who’s thinking
That, our chemistry is missing
Cuz Nicole, and Jen and Amber
feel the same way too

I’m caught in between
I thought we could be
Everything and more
For infinity
If she’d listen to me
She’d realize we’re
Incompatible
Now I’m miserable, miserable me


Almost made it to the car crash
But then I steered away, I thought it would last
I was so stupid then and still will be
Today I realize I’m miserable, miserable me

---------------------------------------
See, this is really specific yet quite simple, I go straight to the point on this one (it's more Rock oriented), and the melodies are good too. It's generic in the subject matter, but not in the presentation.

Thanks a lot, Chris.
I appreciate this.
I also listen to your tracks on iTunes, like the songs there especially Dream Will Never Die.
I think I know what you mean.

But If you could elaborate when you say "try to be more specific"?

Because I'm trying to make a song with deep hidden meaning like a poem.
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5th January 2012
Old 5th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiguan View Post
Thanks a lot, Chris.
I appreciate this.
I also listen to your tracks on iTunes, like the songs there especially Dream Will Never Die.
I think I know what you mean.

But If you could elaborate when you say "try to be more specific"?

Because I'm trying to make a song with deep hidden meaning like a poem.
Oh thanks, well that song "Dreams Will Never Die" is a pretty good song reference. It's about two broke teenagers thinking that they can hit it big if they hold on to their dreams. They found each other at the worst time of their life, but since they're together they can overcome challenges. I mean it's a pretty complex song, yet I wrote it almost at a conversational level.

I don't know if you noticed but my song "Miserable Me" is very conversational and very believable. The lyrics you wrote are a bit too general, not as attainable to most people. As soon as you can get these lyrics to sound real and relatable yet simple, you'll be in the ballpark. That means, going out there and living new experiences; you will have so many song Ideas.

I mean I remembered sitting at the Avalon Hotel in Hollywood, just drinking a beer with my gf, and the couple next to us were having a fight, which evolved into the girl leaving. And I overheard the guy say "You should have married me"... And so I thought, wow this is a pretty strong line, and I kept the line for a song title and eventually wrote a full song out of that one idea. You gotta go out there and live a little! English is my second language as well by the way.
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6th January 2012
Old 6th January 2012
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To be brutal, the problem with those lyrics for me is they're not very interesting. They don't offer any insight or entertainment value. They basically read like the inside of a greetings card.

Lyrics need to express an idea, and they need to do so creatively. If you want to say you love someone, fine, but HOW do you love them? What image do you use? Your feelings may be very deep but if you use cliched and banal language to express them they will not come across as deep.

Good lyrics often start with a striking image, or metaphor, and then they pursue that through the song to a surprising or satisfying end.

It's really no different to writing poetry, although the rules are different.

A hook should be lyrical as well as musical. What's the most powerful thing you are trying to express in the song? What are the most powerful words you can use to express that idea?

Being oblique is often a good idea. Having words that come out and say exactly what you feel "I love you but I'm not sure" is really boring. How can you express that differently? Are you drunk on love but afraid of a hangover? Are you swimming in love but afraid of drowning? Find an image and then play with it and let it drive the whole song.
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6th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkheadedbug View Post
To be brutal, the problem with those lyrics for me is they're not very interesting. They don't offer any insight or entertainment value. They basically read like the inside of a greetings card.

Lyrics need to express an idea, and they need to do so creatively. If you want to say you love someone, fine, but HOW do you love them? What image do you use? Your feelings may be very deep but if you use cliched and banal language to express them they will not come across as deep.

Good lyrics often start with a striking image, or metaphor, and then they pursue that through the song to a surprising or satisfying end.

It's really no different to writing poetry, although the rules are different.

A hook should be lyrical as well as musical. What's the most powerful thing you are trying to express in the song? What are the most powerful words you can use to express that idea?

Being oblique is often a good idea. Having words that come out and say exactly what you feel "I love you but I'm not sure" is really boring. How can you express that differently? Are you drunk on love but afraid of a hangover? Are you swimming in love but afraid of drowning? Find an image and then play with it and let it drive the whole song.
I fully agree with what you're saying.
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7th January 2012
Old 7th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Oh thanks, well that song "Dreams Will Never Die" is a pretty good song reference. It's about two broke teenagers thinking that they can hit it big if they hold on to their dreams. They found each other at the worst time of their life, but since they're together they can overcome challenges. I mean it's a pretty complex song, yet I wrote it almost at a conversational level.

I don't know if you noticed but my song "Miserable Me" is very conversational and very believable. The lyrics you wrote are a bit too general, not as attainable to most people. As soon as you can get these lyrics to sound real and relatable yet simple, you'll be in the ballpark. That means, going out there and living new experiences; you will have so many song Ideas.

I mean I remembered sitting at the Avalon Hotel in Hollywood, just drinking a beer with my gf, and the couple next to us were having a fight, which evolved into the girl leaving. And I overheard the guy say "You should have married me"... And so I thought, wow this is a pretty strong line, and I kept the line for a song title and eventually wrote a full song out of that one idea. You gotta go out there and live a little! English is my second language as well by the way.
I can't find "Miserable Me" form iTunes. I guess it is not live yet?

Yeah! I'll rewrite and change here and there and try to give the emotional feeling to the people who will listen them.
I guess I'm living too much in my room...


Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkheadedbug View Post
To be brutal, the problem with those lyrics for me is they're not very interesting. They don't offer any insight or entertainment value. They basically read like the inside of a greetings card.

Lyrics need to express an idea, and they need to do so creatively. If you want to say you love someone, fine, but HOW do you love them? What image do you use? Your feelings may be very deep but if you use cliched and banal language to express them they will not come across as deep.

Good lyrics often start with a striking image, or metaphor, and then they pursue that through the song to a surprising or satisfying end.

It's really no different to writing poetry, although the rules are different.

A hook should be lyrical as well as musical. What's the most powerful thing you are trying to express in the song? What are the most powerful words you can use to express that idea?

Being oblique is often a good idea. Having words that come out and say exactly what you feel "I love you but I'm not sure" is really boring. How can you express that differently? Are you drunk on love but afraid of a hangover? Are you swimming in love but afraid of drowning? Find an image and then play with it and let it drive the whole song.

Just be brutal to me please!
It's better you guys who know the things to say it rather than I bring the song to the mass and got mock down.

Thank you for the tips.

I will rewrite the song.

If you guys don't mind, I'm looking forward to another critics of it later.
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7th January 2012
Old 7th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiguan View Post
I can't find "Miserable Me" form iTunes. I guess it is not live yet?

Yeah! I'll rewrite and change here and there and try to give the emotional feeling to the people who will listen them.
I guess I'm living too much in my room...
It's not out yet! I'll release it on my second album hopefully, or through another artist. My publisher has a demo of the song.
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7th January 2012
Old 7th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiguan View Post
Since we have the songwriting section today, I guess I'll start with lyric.

One of my way of writing is to absorbed into other people songs to get the feeling, vibe and emotional state to write a lyric.

Today, this is the song that I use.

?????? (Kimi wo Shirukoto)
http://soundcloud.com/cool-music-production/kimi-wo-shirukoto

I'll probably produce the same genre and the same mood, just altering the melody while the chord progression will still the same. (Well depends)

This song will be for a female artist to sing.
I don't even have the right title yet.

So here it is.

Expecting constructive critics.
English is my second language though.
good job

but i know the original you used as a model
if someone never heard the english version of the original they might not find the lyrics so interesting

i am not a lawyer----
personally i think it is original enough since you only took the idea and not the expression (except for chord changes and there are not that many that have not been used by many songs) so you should be safe wrt copyright

the other gave you some real solid feedback that you need to consider

i would say that the syllables need to have the same count on lines that repeat the same melody phrase so they fit the music/rhythm better. this might be better sung in Japanese.
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#12
7th January 2012
Old 7th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newdigitaluser View Post
good job

but i know the original
if someone never heard the english version of the original they might not find the lyrics interesting

i am not a lawyer----
but you may be getting too close to copyright infringement
personally i think it is original enough since you only took the idea and not the expression (except for chord changes and there are not that many that have not been used by many songs)

but the big label owners can sue anybody for anything
and they have more money. unless you go platinum you are probably safe.
Ah, perhaps you misunderstood.
I won't use the exact melody, arrangement or composition of the song I posted.
It's just to explain how the mood for the lyric.

They can't sue me for using the same chord don't they. lol
Just how many people in the world use A# - D - C - E in their chord progression.

On other note: If you know the original, meaning we come from the same interest?
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7th January 2012
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Another thing to think about is rhyme. The lyrics that you posted don't have any, which can sometimes work, but rhyme is one of those things that can really make a difference.

Mainly, it's because (I think) rhyme makes a song sound finished and deliberate and inevitable -- like the words are meant to be that way.

However, there are many traps to using rhyme. Not least the fact that many if not most rhymes in pop music are dreadfully over used:

moon/soon

girl/world

love/above <- in fact rhyming 'love' with anything

rain/pain

heart/apart

and so on. I cringe every time I hear one of these rhymes.

I was looking at your lyrics again, and you do have an interesting image there which I think you should think about and expand on - 'inside my heart'.

What does that really mean? The girl is 'inside your heart'. OK. Is she trapped there? Can she just walk out? Do you want her there? Is there room for anyone else in there? Are there the bones of former lovers in there? Is it a prison cell? Is it a secret place? Does it have windows? Is she hidden from view? Does she even know she's in there? How did she get there?

You see what I'm getting at. You can make 'inside my heart' the dominating idea for the song, and turn it from a cliche into something interesting.
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7th January 2012
Old 7th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkheadedbug View Post
Another thing to think about is rhyme. The lyrics that you posted don't have any, which can sometimes work, but rhyme is one of those things that can really make a difference.

Mainly, it's because (I think) rhyme makes a song sound finished and deliberate and inevitable -- like the words are meant to be that way.

However, there are many traps to using rhyme. Not least the fact that many if not most rhymes in pop music are dreadfully over used:

moon/soon

girl/world

love/above <- in fact rhyming 'love' with anything

rain/pain

heart/apart

and so on. I cringe every time I hear one of these rhymes.

I was looking at your lyrics again, and you do have an interesting image there which I think you should think about and expand on - 'inside my heart'.

What does that really mean? The girl is 'inside your heart'. OK. Is she trapped there? Can she just walk out? Do you want her there? Is there room for anyone else in there? Are there the bones of former lovers in there? Is it a prison cell? Is it a secret place? Does it have windows? Is she hidden from view? Does she even know she's in there? How did she get there?

You see what I'm getting at. You can make 'inside my heart' the dominating idea for the song, and turn it from a cliche into something interesting.
Good points.
Thank you very much.

This song is for a female vocalist to sing, so basically the story is that "guy she always love and no one else" something like that.

My first time write a song for someone else...
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15th January 2012
Old 15th January 2012
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Realllllyyyyyyyy generic lyrics, the love thing has been done to death, either do something else or put a dark spin on it.... That could be interesting.
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15th January 2012
Old 15th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiguan View Post
Since we have the songwriting section today, I guess I'll start with lyric.

One of my way of writing is to absorbed into other people songs to get the feeling, vibe and emotional state to write a lyric.

Expecting constructive critics.
English is my second language though.
I think you're failing to distinguish between abstraction and vagueness. There are of course exceptions but good poetry generally isn't vague. It may use a lot of abstraction though.

I get that you don't want to spell everything out but right now you're not saying anything at all. You don't have a title or a hook line of any note. You don't have a core theme/concept or feeling to draw from or expand on. The language is completely generic.

You need some conciseness in what you are saying. Think about it. If you were telling somebody a story and started with:

"Y'know there was a guy who went and did that thing with somebody but then nothing happened and they had to go somewhere because the other guy had something else to do too. So off they went somewhere..."

It says nothing. It means nothing.
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16th January 2012
Old 16th January 2012
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Yeah, I'm trying to write something new...
Try to be specific and finding some theme to start too...

Well, I'm still too new in this... Haha
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16th January 2012
Old 16th January 2012
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Don`t give up. And I`d like to congratulate you on your attitude, hearing critics is the hardest part, you seem to get them in the right spirit. Keep doing it, like everything in life, you`ll get better with the exercise.
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16th January 2012
Old 16th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Favorite View Post
Don`t give up. And I`d like to congratulate you on your attitude, hearing critics is the hardest part, you seem to get them in the right spirit. Keep doing it, like everything in life, you`ll get better with the exercise.
Practice makes perfect indeed.
At least it's true for my guitar lesson.
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16th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiguan View Post
Yeah, I'm trying to write something new...
Try to be specific and finding some theme to start too...

Well, I'm still too new in this... Haha

No facepalm! You've a great attitude. The right attitude. The fact that you responded to blunt, honest criticism on this thread like you just have shows you have at least some of the things necessary: a thick skin, no ego, and a real desire to learn.

In all honesty I think the fact that you're doing something in a 2nd language will ultimately give you an advantage in writing if you let it. I find that foreigners have a way of tapping into the directness of the English language that is very unique and compelling. Saying simple things in a slightly offbeat (or even "wrong") way can be very interesting. It's nearly a childlike thing where you're discovering what things can do so it gives you a huge amount of freedom. You're lucky to be able to work from this unique perspective!!
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16th January 2012
Old 16th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
No facepalm! You've a great attitude. The right attitude. The fact that you responded to blunt, honest criticism on this thread like you just have shows you have at least some of the things necessary: a thick skin, no ego, and a real desire to learn.

In all honesty I think the fact that you're doing something in a 2nd language will ultimately give you an advantage in writing if you let it. I find that foreigners have a way of tapping into the directness of the English language that is very unique and compelling. Saying simple things in a slightly offbeat (or even "wrong") way can be very interesting. It's nearly a childlike thing where you're discovering what things can do so it gives you a huge amount of freedom. You're lucky to be able to work from this unique perspective!!
Yea, I learnt that we can't see our weaknesses that easy but other people tend to see our weaknesses easily. So do we on other people.

If I don't fix my weak point here, I will be more humiliated when I actually approach the mass with my songs.

So actually I'm very grateful to all of you guys.
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#22
24th January 2012
Old 24th January 2012
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I finally come out with this lyric (update on first post) as my final product.
I know it could be better, but time is running out.
I will learn more as experience go.

So, thank you for all the critics and guidance. You guys are awesome!
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24th January 2012
Old 24th January 2012
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Since English isn't your first language, it's practically impossible for you to pick up on the subtle nuances just as anyone speaking your native tongue as would have the same difficulties. That being said, you've done quite well!

I've tried to augment your language and give it more raw emotion and color so you have direction for your future songs. In general, more drama. Please note, this is only relating your lyrics as written (not sung), which is why I've changed some of the rhyming structure and syllables per line. I personally believe the melody should always be crafted around the lyrics. Even if the lyrics were written second, the melody can always be edited to suit them!

YOURS:
Quote:
Verse 1 :

I look up at the blue sky,
Put my hopes on the wind.
I don’t know when I’ll be blessed,
For them to come true.

Verse 2 :
I just want you to know that,
I’m waiting for you here.
Perhaps this is my destiny,
To love you from far.

Reff :
There are some times,
I want to give up.
There are some days,
I’ll cry when I think of you,
Baby, I miss you…

Chorus :
Coz’ my love for you is true,
I promise nothing will ever change,
I will treasure you alone,
Baby, I love you…

All the days that you are not here,
I’m waiting all alone in my room,
Waiting for you to come back,
Baby, I miss you…
MINE:
Quote:
Verse 1 :

I look up at the dark blue sky,
And throw my hope on the wind.
I don’t know if I’ll be blessed,
Or just drown in my sin.

Verse 2 :
I need you to know,
That I'm waiting for you here.
Hoping this sick destiny,
Will quickly disappear.

Reff :
There are so many times,
I think I should give up.
There are so many days,
When I'm all out of luck

Chorus :
But my love for you is real,
I promise I can't ever change,
And I wish you could feel
..Oh, how baby I love you…

And when you aren't here,
I'm all alone in this room,
Drowning in my fear,
..Oh, how baby I've missed you…
Wiguan
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#24
24th January 2012
Old 24th January 2012
  #24
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Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 216

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Wiguan is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dz7 View Post
Since English isn't your first language, it's practically impossible for you to pick up on the subtle nuances just as anyone speaking your native tongue as would have the same difficulties. That being said, you've done quite well!

I've tried to augment your language and give it more raw emotion and color so you have direction for your future songs. In general, more drama. Please note, this is only relating your lyrics as written (not sung), which is why I've changed some of the rhyming structure and syllables per line. I personally believe the melody should always be crafted around the lyrics. Even if the lyrics were written second, the melody can always be edited to suit them!

YOURS:


MINE:
You're right...

I "WOW" when I read your re-written lyric of my version.
And it is sing-able with some tweak of the melody.

You're awesome... I took note of this "pattern" and make use of the knowledge in my next song.

I always heard there's a software to help in choosing the words into our lyric, but I just never happen to stumble into one... Perhaps if anyone knows can point me into this direction too?

Thank you very much.
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