1/2 inch vs. 1 inch tape

[soupking]

Granted, like in photography, if you have a larger negative, you have better resolution. So I imagine tape is no different.

However, the properties are different. If you have one size that's larger, does the noise floor become more visible. I understand there's more compression/squeeze in a smaller thickness.

I'm trying to do in between 8-16 tracks per song so I don't know how much the tape size would affect something in that sonic scope.

I'm hoping the 1/2" TASCAM 38 will do the trick without hiss, that is, hiss that isn't protruding into the work. More like salt n pepper than a slice of tomato in the mix if that makes sense.

I should be running at a rate of 15 ips or whatever it is. Am I game?

[T_R_S]

I have nothig good to say bout a Tascam half inch so I will not say anything
If you really want a opinion ask Fletcher...

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by soupking

Granted, like in photography, if you have a larger negative, you have better resolution. So I imagine tape is no different.

However, the properties are different. If you have one size that's larger, does the noise floor become more visible. I understand there's more compression/squeeze in a smaller thickness.

I'm trying to do in between 8-16 tracks per song so I don't know how much the tape size would affect something in that sonic scope.

I'm hoping the 1/2" TASCAM 38 will do the trick without hiss, that is, hiss that isn't protruding into the work. More like salt n pepper than a slice of tomato in the mix if that makes sense.

I should be running at a rate of 15 ips or whatever it is. Am I game?

You'd be better off sticking with a DAW.
The Tascam 38's really eren't that great.
1/2" is greta for mastering 2 track masters on. IF you're using
a pro machine.
For the cost of the tape, it's simply not worth it.
It's really not goign to make your stuff any better.

[soupking]

For the cost of the tape, it's simply not worth it.
It's really not goign to make your stuff any better.

Well, I've got to record to tape. That's what the project demands.

Thanks though.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by soupking

Well, I've got to record to tape. That's what the project demands.

Thanks though.

Well, I hope you like hiss then.
The Tascam 38 is crap for noise.
Especially at 15ips

[soupking]

dbx doesn't help much eh? What would you recommend on a path of least resistance recording to tape?

[thenoodle]

If you have a second option...besides the 38..you didn't mention what it was. If the 38 is all you have, use it and get the best you can out of it.

[soupking]

If you have a second option...besides the 38..you didn't mention what it was. If the 38 is all you have, use it and get the best you can out of it.

That's kind of where I'm at. I passed up a TASCAM 1" 16 track last weekend for $800. I think it might'v'e been wise. It was a long drive and I didn't quite have the money for it. I've got a couple real old school tones that I'm aiming for. After that the project grows progressively more modern. I was thinking by that time I might need to upgrade, but I need to know what it is I'm looking for. I don't want to end up like U2 in central California.

[pianodano]

I have had two 38's with dbx since new. Nothing wrong with those machines imho. Their not a JH24, but many people have done amazing recordings on them. Drums will definitely kick but. If hiss is a problem, something's not right. I never had a problem of any kind when I was actively using mine with or without dbx enabled. My #1 38 had several thousand hours on it before outside service. Go for it and you'll see. If you use the dbx, just reduce the level to tape about 5dB at least. Contrary to what people are saying now on many forums, Tascam built them to use 456 grandmaster. btw it was a good deal on the MS16 if it had all the "correct" accessories. It was 15K new with stand, dbx, remote and aq65 autolocator.

Tom at AMP services only charges $300 to relap and optically align the MS16 head stack. If you find one in good condition, get the heads lapped and you'll never wear it out in a home studio.

Danny

[stellar]

I am in the same boat. I am currently using a 1/2" 4-track to record my stuff. I used to use a 1/2" 16-track but the noise level was not up to "pro" standards, although I still think the machine sounds very good for what it is. the 4-track is a lot of fun and definitely up to "pro" standards. The 8-will be somewhere in-between and hopefully the noise level will be good. Also I mix down to a 1/2" 2-track, so I will soon have 2- 4- 8- and 16- tracks all in 1/2" format....which just feels cool for some reason. Anywayz PM me in like a month if and I'll let you know what I think.

Danny, Will your friend also align and lap other models? like otari and fostex? what levels do you hit your 1/2" 8-track with in order to minimize noise and what level do you bias the 456 to?

[soupking]

Thanks guys, that's all great info. I'm still waiting to hear back from Fletcher to see what he thinks.

I'll take it one step at a time. And add dbx if needed, if that doesn't work I 'll see a technician. I'm like 10 miles from the TEAC headquarteres in Commerce, CA.

Finally something rewarding about smog.

If that doesn't work I'll hit the darn audio market again. Wow, what a beast.

Thanks again everybody,
-soupking

[pianodano]

Originally Posted by stellar

I am in the same boat. I am currently using a 1/2" 4-track to record my stuff. I used to use a 1/2" 16-track but the noise level was not up to "pro" standards, although I still think the machine sounds very good for what it is. the 4-track is a lot of fun and definitely up to "pro" standards. The 8-will be somewhere in-between and hopefully the noise level will be good. Also I mix down to a 1/2" 2-track, so I will soon have 2- 4- 8- and 16- tracks all in 1/2" format....which just feels cool for some reason. Anywayz PM me in like a month if and I'll let you know what I think.

Danny, Will your friend also align and lap other models? like otari and fostex? what levels do you hit your 1/2" 8-track with in order to minimize noise and what level do you bias the 456 to?

A 1/2" mixdown machine should be killer. My brother has a 1/2" 2 track MCI. Wow.
A engineer friend of mine (his name was Alan Sawyer and he's deceased now but he went on to do film sound after closing his studio) introduced me to the Tascam line in the very early 80's. What that guy could do with an 8 track and a model 5 mixer was unreal. Re: record levels - without dbx I recorded at 0dB average. There's a (transient) peak led also in the meter. IF that comes on, it's too hot. With dbx, reduce level at least by 5dB. I used dbx on parts with quiet passages like vocals and rythym guitar. I know Tom is a Tascam service center and being in Florida, of course he dabbles in MCI. I would think he does Otari also but I am not so sure about Fostex. Here's a link to his site so you can get his number. He is a great guy. http://www.audiomagnetics.com/.

Bias level, (from memory) with whatever tape you recording to on the machine. Feed a 10kz tone at -1db with all tracks armed and output set to repro. Start on track 1. Turn the bias trim pot completely counterclockwise. Then turn the bias trim pot to give a peak reading and reduce from that to show a reading of -3 to -4 from the peak. DO the same thing on all tracks and you're done

Danny

[themaidsroom]

try the new rmg tape
it is really quiet




be well

- jack



p.s. tape always sounds better
(casettes sound better than pro tools)

[soupking]

Cool Jack, Thanks man!

p.s. Tape actually has a sound :P

[Dave Peck]

Years ago I had a Tascam 38 in my project studio and I was able to get some pretty good results with it (for a project studio). A very knowledgable engineer I knew at the time recommended that I get it recalibrated for high-level tape (at the time that was 499). This mostly just involved turning up the input trim pots to allow a hotter signal level to hit the tape, and turning down the meters by the same amount so they still told you something meaningful, rather than just pegging when the signal started getting hot-ish. I took his suggestion and it worked great. Nice big analog sound and very little noise.

I say if you want to record to eight track analog tape & this is in your budget range, it's not a bad choice at all as long as the particular machine is in good shape.

BUT - No matter what - DO NOT TAKE IT TO THE TASCAM FACTORY FOR SERVICE. Those guys are the WORST. Take it to an independant pro audio service center that is TASCAM AUTHORIZED instead, and if it is going to need any new parts, tell them to get the parts from Tascam FIRST and THEN you will give it to them for service. If you take it to Tascam for service or have to wait for parts from the Tascam facility you could be waiting literally forever.

DP

[soupking]

BUT - No matter what - DO NOT TAKE IT TO THE TASCAM FACTORY FOR SERVICE. Those guys are the WORST. Take it to an independant pro audio service center that is TASCAM AUTHORIZED instead, and if it is going to need any new parts, tell them to get the parts from Tascam FIRST and THEN you will give it to them for service. If you take it to Tascam for service or have to wait for parts from the Tascam facility you could be waiting literally forever.

Dave, thank you so much. I would've gone there on the first hint of trouble.

Viva Gearslutz!

[thenoodle]

As to the loud warning to never take Tascam equipment to Tascam for repair.....it's an opinion. From one guy. Now, here's an opinion from another guy-

The Tascam repair dept at the factory in Montebello is the best. I have taken my msr24, 8516b, trsr8, dat30, m3700 and every other Tascam piece directly there at various times over the past 25 years and the factory always does the job right. Most recently less than a year ago. Not to mention they have the parts for everything I ever take in. Do they have parts for everything ever made? No. But luckily, they've had all the parts for anything I've ever taken to them. Additionally, in the case of the older analog equipment, at least 2 of the designers are still there and I speak with them regularly.

As far as walking into an independent service center and informing them to call you after they've ordered and received parts from Tascam, boy, I would look at the customer and say bye-bye. Are there actually service centers somewhere on the planet that would really order a few hundred dollars in Tascam parts from the factory (and it doesn't take more than a couple of little parts to get up into the hundreds with the factory) for a repair job that isn't already booked, signed off on, and the equipment being held as security?

It's back to the old thing where answers to questions on forums are going to be opinions based on very personalized experiences. You just can't know how these things are going to pan out for you until YOU have the experiences.

[soupking]

Man, what a learning experience, and this is just with tape machines.

[Dave Peck]

Originally Posted by thenoodle

As to the loud warning to never take Tascam equipment to Tascam for repair.....it's an opinion. From one guy.

I am glad to hear that they have provided good service for you, and of course it's good to hear other people's experience on stuff like this. But just for clarity, although I am indeed one guy, my comments are based on the experiences of three people with whom I have worked. Two of them had gear stuck at Tascam for well over six months. Of course some repairs can take quite a while, but during this time they left numerous messages requesting info on the repair and never received a single reply and were never able to actually reach someone on the phone - they could only leave messages which were never returned. In both cases, it finally took repeated trips to the facility and demanding to speak with a manager in person to get their gear back. One person's gear had been ready for a month but they never contacted the customer (!) and the other person's gear had not even been looked at, with no explanation given for this. In the case of the third person, Tascam actually LOST the gear and never found it. It took threats of legal action to get them to replace it.

I would hope that anyone who takes their gear to Tascam for service gets better results than that.

DP

[dbbubba]

The biggest problem with all of the 1/2" 8 track, 16 track and the 1" 16 track decks is the head bump. dBx sounds like doo doo and makes them sonically worse.

I had a 38 that I bought for next to nothing in 1986 and I used it to record a ton of bands on a daily basis. In less than one year I wore out two capstan motors. I could take one out and install a new on in 45 minutes! When I complained to the TASCAM guy at the factory he said, "Well, they only have a 90 day warrantee from the company that we buy them from. They really aren't made to run in an everydau, pro studio."

The other drawback is that it is nearly impossible to calibrate almost all TASCAM decks.
They put the adjustment screws on the bottom on the deck and it require that you remove a panel. There is also not very good labeling as far as what knob does what.

I had a TASCAM 80-8 that ran WAYYYYYY better than the 38.
I also had a model 42 2 track until about a year ago.
It was better than the 38 line, but it was a BITCH to calibrate (same reason.)
My friend had/has(?) a 48 that we set up for 499 back in 1992 and it was OK.

Danny Brown