Optimize Beats by Eliminating Beats?

Frequency · 18th December 2006, 11:38 AM

Hey guys!

Question.

I occasionally get mails from Modernbeats.com with "Quiktips". Got one today, and I have never heard of this problem.

What are your opinions on this?

See below.

When monitoring mixes through a full professional setup including quality 8"-10" nearfield monitors coupled with a 10"-12" subwoofer, we may be surprised just how much low frequency clutter really exists that simply cannot be heard on smaller setups. But once you are able to hear the overbearing and conflicting low end war going on in your mix, you can finally start correcting those errors resulting in a much cleaner and level-optimized mix!

First and foremost, is learning what a "beat" is. And NO...we are not talking about a "beat" as in a "drum beat", we're talking of something entirely different...

When the frequency of 2 similar instruments within a song are very close in pitch, but not in exact tune with one another, an undesired artifact is born causing an adverse, secondary low frequency wave to modulate called a "beat". In acoustics, a "beat" is an interference between two sounds of slightly different frequencies. Avoiding "beats" are particularly important when dealing with kicks, sub-bass, and bass guitar instruments over other high-end instruments in any given song. This is because lower frequency tracks make pitch conflicts stick out like sore thumbs compared to less-problematic higher frequency tracks.

To elimintate "beats", the most favorable pitch to tune all low-end, non-melodic tracks (drums and percussion) to is clearly the first musical note in the key of your song, known as the root "tonic". Correcting all these subtle pitch conflicts will deliver the most harmonious interaction between all the low-end non-melodic & melodic instruments in your mix!

cortisol · 18th December 2006, 01:19 PM

I've never heard the term beat used like that but then again I haven't studied acoustics.

Here is what I know from my experiences... If you use a boom box (domestic listening device with small speakers) to check your mixes then you will soom hear if a bass instrument has enough harmonic info in the mids because you will either hear it or it will all but disappear. So choice of sound sources it of vital importance.

Most people can't hear for sh!t into the low notes. This is why bass players are unsung heroes. Joe public can't hear the pitch down low but they can feel the groove and can feel the lack of support down thar if the playing isn't up to snuff.

Generally speaking slow frequency wave forms oscilate too slowly and aren't really audiable enough to cause obvious rhythmic oscilations.

Most of what is being said can be covered by simply filtering out the low end of instruments that are causing auiable rumbles or ugly sounding bass build up.

When you are checking out the low end of your mix simply audition the tracks with the low end content and check to see if they are arranged in a complimentary way. Don't be afraid to gate a subordinate track to prioritise the instrument giving the main support to the arrangement.

All IMHO.

Peace,
cortisol

Methlab · 18th December 2006, 04:50 PM

The point is:

Pitch your drums right. It makes a difference.

poncival · 18th December 2006, 06:20 PM

A beat frequency is what you hear when you have two sources slightly out of tune with one another, like what you listen for when tuning a guitar to itself with the "5th fret" method, you hear kind of a "yuh-yuh-yuh" which slows down as you get the two strings closer to the same pitch. This is also the basis of chorus/pitch spread type effects which make a "fake double" type effect. You can also hear it on twin engine airplanes as they fly over... It can be a cool effect when used properly but there is nothing worse than a song that's in C (fundamental of 65.4 Hz) which has an 808 drum note tuned to 60 hz, for example, then the bottom end really becomes mush. Incedentally I am pretty sure the Beat Frequency is the difference between the two notes, in this example the beat frequency would be 5.4 Hz, causing the bass note (when it plays a C at the same time as the 808 kicks) to basically fade in and out that many times per second. This is just an example but this is pretty much how it happens. Methlab is right, tune your drums right so you don't have to worry about this- this means don't have your floor tom just shy of a F# on a song that's in C even if the drum sounds OK by itself in that tuning it will sound really lame when you hit it while the bass player is playing a G before the downbeat... and the Bass will suffer equally.

My 2¢

Windtaken · 18th December 2006, 06:31 PM

one guitar playing A at 442, another at 438, a difference of four, creates a beat freq of 4Hz, 4 beats per second, like when you're phase tuning your guitar, though you will still hear an average freq of 440, oddly enough.

i guess lower bass frequencies aren't being tuned? (kick drum) so it will create higher beat frequencies. Never noticed a problem though. But we all know by ear; TUNE YOUR DRUMS!

halcyo · 18th December 2006, 06:42 PM

So, in that case, what are you guys doing in terms of TUNING a kick drum? I mean obviously, an acoustic drum is capable of tuning, but what are you doing with an electronic kick? And for that matter, what ARE you using to tune acoustic kits? Do you use a strobe tuner or something to find the notes you are looking for? That seems kind of ridiculous in terms of practicality, but it DOES make sense.

halcyo

Methlab · 18th December 2006, 07:21 PM

It's an absolute neccessity in dance music especially if you stack drum sounds. I always tune my kick drum to the root of the song, then tune the rest by what sits right (Ie, a snare doesnt always sound good in the key of the song, so it's what you feel sounds good)

a poster called Chrisma posted up Ctune, a free tuner that works pretty well for doing this.

Just use a 1 hit bar loop and tune to that.

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18th December 2006, 11:38 AM	#1
Frequency Gear maniac Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 150	Optimize Beats by Eliminating Beats? Hey guys! Question. I occasionally get mails from Modernbeats.com with "Quiktips". Got one today, and I have never heard of this problem. What are your opinions on this? See below. When monitoring mixes through a full professional setup including quality 8"-10" nearfield monitors coupled with a 10"-12" subwoofer, we may be surprised just how much low frequency clutter really exists that simply cannot be heard on smaller setups. But once you are able to hear the overbearing and conflicting low end war going on in your mix, you can finally start correcting those errors resulting in a much cleaner and level-optimized mix! First and foremost, is learning what a "beat" is. And NO...we are not talking about a "beat" as in a "drum beat", we're talking of something entirely different... When the frequency of 2 similar instruments within a song are very close in pitch, but not in exact tune with one another, an undesired artifact is born causing an adverse, secondary low frequency wave to modulate called a "beat". In acoustics, a "beat" is an interference between two sounds of slightly different frequencies. Avoiding "beats" are particularly important when dealing with kicks, sub-bass, and bass guitar instruments over other high-end instruments in any given song. This is because lower frequency tracks make pitch conflicts stick out like sore thumbs compared to less-problematic higher frequency tracks. To elimintate "beats", the most favorable pitch to tune all low-end, non-melodic tracks (drums and percussion) to is clearly the first musical note in the key of your song, known as the root "tonic". Correcting all these subtle pitch conflicts will deliver the most harmonious interaction between all the low-end non-melodic & melodic instruments in your mix!

18th December 2006, 06:20 PM	#4
poncival Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 622	A beat frequency is what you hear when you have two sources slightly out of tune with one another, like what you listen for when tuning a guitar to itself with the "5th fret" method, you hear kind of a "yuh-yuh-yuh" which slows down as you get the two strings closer to the same pitch. This is also the basis of chorus/pitch spread type effects which make a "fake double" type effect. You can also hear it on twin engine airplanes as they fly over... It can be a cool effect when used properly but there is nothing worse than a song that's in C (fundamental of 65.4 Hz) which has an 808 drum note tuned to 60 hz, for example, then the bottom end really becomes mush. Incedentally I am pretty sure the Beat Frequency is the difference between the two notes, in this example the beat frequency would be 5.4 Hz, causing the bass note (when it plays a C at the same time as the 808 kicks) to basically fade in and out that many times per second. This is just an example but this is pretty much how it happens. Methlab is right, tune your drums right so you don't have to worry about this- this means don't have your floor tom just shy of a F# on a song that's in C even if the drum sounds OK by itself in that tuning it will sound really lame when you hit it while the bass player is playing a G before the downbeat... and the Bass will suffer equally. My 2¢ __________________ myspace.com/poncival www.thesaltmine.com

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18th December 2006, 01:19 PM	#2
cortisol Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 290	I've never heard the term beat used like that but then again I haven't studied acoustics. Here is what I know from my experiences... If you use a boom box (domestic listening device with small speakers) to check your mixes then you will soom hear if a bass instrument has enough harmonic info in the mids because you will either hear it or it will all but disappear. So choice of sound sources it of vital importance. Most people can't hear for sh!t into the low notes. This is why bass players are unsung heroes. Joe public can't hear the pitch down low but they can feel the groove and can feel the lack of support down thar if the playing isn't up to snuff. Generally speaking slow frequency wave forms oscilate too slowly and aren't really audiable enough to cause obvious rhythmic oscilations. Most of what is being said can be covered by simply filtering out the low end of instruments that are causing auiable rumbles or ugly sounding bass build up. When you are checking out the low end of your mix simply audition the tracks with the low end content and check to see if they are arranged in a complimentary way. Don't be afraid to gate a subordinate track to prioritise the instrument giving the main support to the arrangement. All IMHO. Peace, cortisol

18th December 2006, 04:50 PM	#3
Methlab Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 2,418	The point is: Pitch your drums right. It makes a difference.

18th December 2006, 06:31 PM	#5
Windtaken Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 263	one guitar playing A at 442, another at 438, a difference of four, creates a beat freq of 4Hz, 4 beats per second, like when you're phase tuning your guitar, though you will still hear an average freq of 440, oddly enough. i guess lower bass frequencies aren't being tuned? (kick drum) so it will create higher beat frequencies. Never noticed a problem though. But we all know by ear; TUNE YOUR DRUMS!

18th December 2006, 06:42 PM	#6
halcyo Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cincinnati Ohio Posts: 401	So, in that case, what are you guys doing in terms of TUNING a kick drum? I mean obviously, an acoustic drum is capable of tuning, but what are you doing with an electronic kick? And for that matter, what ARE you using to tune acoustic kits? Do you use a strobe tuner or something to find the notes you are looking for? That seems kind of ridiculous in terms of practicality, but it DOES make sense. halcyo

18th December 2006, 07:21 PM	#7
Methlab Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 2,418	It's an absolute neccessity in dance music especially if you stack drum sounds. I always tune my kick drum to the root of the song, then tune the rest by what sits right (Ie, a snare doesnt always sound good in the key of the song, so it's what you feel sounds good) a poster called Chrisma posted up Ctune, a free tuner that works pretty well for doing this. Just use a 1 hit bar loop and tune to that.