warm/airy snare drums with fullness and nice sustain/ring? indie rock/slowcore stuff?

[themixtape]

Hey gang, I've been a drummer for 15 years. I have never been able to achieve a truly warm/airy snare sound. Then again, I've just played in bands without giving the drum sound much thought.

I've JUST begun recording acoustic kit stuff (I haven't even gotten the mics yet) since I finally now have a good computer and overall studio setup. I used to do ghetto garage recordings with acoustic drums back in the mid 90's with my old band and Radio Shack mics... all of it was terrible, of course.

So...

As I said above, I love warm/airy/sustained snare sounds. It seems I've been on a lifelong quest to get THAT snare sound.

I have a Yamaha Stage Custom Advantage kit that I'm buying from my landlord for a decent price. It's in my studio right now. I also have a Groove Percussion (Sam Ash brand) small/kid kit.. which I do like, but it's not the best kit.. just small which is nice (because I play low, as in, sitting low on my stool).

The Yamaha has a wood snare.... don't know what kind of wood, really.. the basic wood.. maple? It's 6 x 14 I believe.

The heads I have are standard heads that came with it. Made by Remo. UT Ba Heads. Whatever that means. Snare is white/coated, and the toms are clear. I will invest in ANY snare head, Evans or Remo or whoever, if I know exactly what kind of head produces this warmth/airy beauty/sustained loveliness. :)

I tuned it up nice.... I know how to tune drums (except the damn snare, ha!)... and I usually like to play my snare with it kind of loose, because it sounds warmer with more body. But the downside is I can't get good rolls because it's not concrete-tight. However, my snare doesn't have that GOOD, produced, warm, lovely sound I hear on so many recordings.

Which brings me to some audio examples with very clearly heard snares..... here are seven mp3s with direct links, of indie rock recordings I LOVE... not just song-wise, but SNARE-wise. :) To give you guys a VERY good idea of what I'm trying to accomplish with my music and people I collaborate with.

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First is Denali's "Lose Me" from their 2002 self-titled debut on Jade Tree Records. Without a doubt, THIS is my dream snare. You can CLEARLY hear it throughout the song.

Second is Keane's "She Has No Time" from their 2004 debut Hopes & Fears. Such a gorgeous snare drum.

Third is Jimmy Eat World's "Hear You Me" from their 2001 album Bleed American.

Fourth is Sunny Day Real Estate's "The Ocean" from their final album, 2000's The Rising Tide.

Fifth is Tristeza's "Aurora Borealis" from their 2000 masterpiece, Dream Signals In Full Circles (Tiger Style Records).

Sixth is Omaha NE's Azure Ray, and one of their only upbeat folk songs (as they mainly do GORGEOUS folky/depressing/SLOW and gentle stuff), "If You Fall", from 2003's Hold On Love.

Last one is (and somewhat unrelated...) Teen Idols' "20 Below" from their 1998 poppunk masterpiece, Pucker Up! The snare is just insane. All their albums were engineered by Mass Giorgini, an amazing engineer if you ask me.

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I LOOOOOOOOVE these snares!!! Gorgeous.

I want to know....
- are they wood?
- are the heads loose?
- what kind of heads do you think are on the snares? Fiber? Remo Ambassador? Coated?
- are they mic'd with an SM57, as most snares?
- are they mic'd with some overheads to pick up the room sound or just close mic'd... or a combination of both? Etc. etc. etc.

THANKS, everyone..... ANY and ALL advice would be immensely appreciated, and specifc thanks will be given in the CDs I record (I do ALL kinds of solo music, mostly of the indie rock variety), if you guys can even remotely help out, or hold my hand through this grueling, technical adventure. :)

-Chris in suburban Philly
www.themixtape.net

[Fleaman]

1st: Sounds like metal, very ringy...maybe brass? Not much dampening on the top head...if any. And mostly...lots of ambient room mixed in (fairly bright room or eq's that way). Possibly no close micing on the snare. Also lots of rimshots with the stick not hitting the center of the snare head. Heads probably Remo Ambassador on top...but really, I don't think anyone can tell the brand by a sound clip, so a single ply top head of any brand.

Of course I'm just guessing here.

don't know if I can listen to all and pick apart each one....but I'll try.

[themixtape]

Hey Fleaman, thanks so much for the reply. Seriously, every little bit helps since I'm just getting into recording acoustic drums and still on my 15-year quest for getting a great-sounding snare drum...

any recommendations for actual snares? Brands, decade, steel/wood....

I don't have a ton to spend but I'll drop $200 if I can get a really, really good snare...

Thanks again!

-Chris

[Fleaman]

2nd: biggest difference with this snare is no rimshots are being played. This has a big effect on the tone of the snare...no crack. Close micing with little room...mostly outboard effects, gated reverb and gating on some parts. Seems to be heavily eq'd...bright. Maybe condenser mic(s). Medium tuning, probably single ply heads. Not sure if metal or wood with all the eq'ing going on.

(still guessing here).

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by themixtape

Hey Fleaman, thanks so much for the reply. Seriously, every little bit helps since I'm just getting into recording acoustic drums and still on my 15-year quest for getting a great-sounding snare drum...

any recommendations for actual snares? Brands, decade, steel/wood....

I don't have a ton to spend but I'll drop $200 if I can get a really, really good snare...

Thanks again!

-Chris

From what it seems you are leaning towards, and in your price range, I would get a Pearl sensitone Brass elite, 14x6 or 14x5 size. I have about 14 different snare drums! Many different sizes, ages (modern, vintage, etc), different woods and constructions (plys, segmented, etc.), and many different metals (brass, bronze, bell brass, steel, etc.). I've been on a wood trip for a while, but have 'rediscovered' metal snares and have lately been playing of all things a 4 year old Pearl Sensitone 14x5 bronze snare, which is actually one of the cheapest (value wise) snares that I have, but it is an incredible value. Pearl just revamped their sensitone line and the shells are a little thicker now, but supposedly they are a slight improvement over the non-elite sensitones. I myself will probably be buying a 14x6 brass one in the near future.

[Fleaman]

3rd: Back to rimshots. Can't really tell if this is metal or wood...leaning towards wood on this one. Lots of room again. Not so much bright eq'ing on this one. close mics and room mics. Still, a very ambient snare (especially pushed during heaver parts), meaning you need a good room to capture a great sounding snare played by a great drummer. Great drummers have great tone...can really pull it out of the drum, as you probably know.


Again...still on my guessing ship of dreams. Anyone else can chime in with their guesses.

[Fleaman]

4th: Big rimshots. Very ambient...lots of room and/or 'verb (short). Not sure if wood or steel...maybe wood. Again, need a good room, good room micing and a mostly a great drummer.

[numrologst]

"that snare sound"

I get sounds like that with a pearl masters brass snare. My main session drummer has it... Beautiful snare.

I get my snare to sound like that frequently. My favorite snare sounds usually come from a crushed set of room mics.

[Fleaman]

5th is much more telling: This has cheap digital reverb in spades all over it. Lot's of mid/high eq after the fact. It has so much processing I really can't tell what the snare is or even if the drummer is playing rimshots (some parts not, but some seem like they could be rimshots). Drummer is not as consistent...especially with the kick. Engineer decided to not do much about it.

Because it's late I can't really turn up my computer speakers, so I'm a little hindered in my guessing I guess

[Thumper]

That snare for the Denali track...

There's a lot of room mics in it.

My guess would be maple snare ( a biggun... 14x6 or 7) that has a very weird tuning going on. Really freakin tight batter, very freakin loose snare side. Or, maybe the opposite... freakin tight snare, looser batter. But my guess would be the prior....

It's definitely wood, not metal. It doesn't have the crack associated with aluminum/steel. And not the midrange power of a brass drum. Definitely wood...

I'd try out Remo's Controlled Sound heads. They're quickly becoming my favorite snare head. It has the really open sound of the Aquarian heads, with a bit less overtone ring. It's the perfect middle ground in my opinion. You don't need to tape the head, so you won't loose the open sound. Or Evan's Power Center heads. They're basically the same idea.

But, I have a feeling that the sound you're seeing it that example has more to do with compressed to fvck room mics than the actual drum.

Sample it, and just use that...... HOHOHO... I kid I kid...

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by Thumper

That snare for the Denali track...

There's a lot of room mics in it.

It's definitely wood, not metal. It doesn't have the crack associated with aluminum/steel. And not the midrange power of a brass drum. Definitely wood...

...

You loose some of that midrange power with only room mics, which might be the case here. The crack seems metal...to me.

Could be wood, but I still think it's metal. But it's all just educated guessing...

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

You loose some of that midrange power with only room mics, which might be the case here. The crack seems metal...to me.

Could be wood, but I still think it's metal. But it's all just educated guessing...

Yeah, I know...

I listened on our $30k monitors here, as well as 1031and NS10s... I still think wood. Maple. It's not a metal shell....

80% of that sound is the room, or simulated room (reverb). It just doesn't have the bite of a good metal shell snare... Granted, it might be a really shitty metal drum, but I don't hear it...

I would still try a maple snare with the weird tuning that i posted above... I think that's the way to go...