Is a home studio justified if you have just *zero* accurate space?

[BattleAngel]

I've got a bunch of great gear (in storage right now). A Crane Song Spider which until this winter I used every day, a pendulum quartet, some great mics from royer, blue, akg, and earthworks, and I love recording music. I want to get my stuff set up again in my new space and get back to work on recording- but the thought keeps plauging me- does it even make sense to have such cool gear and to want to buy things like great monitors if I don't have an acoustically sound place to monitor? I find the space I'm in, a bedroom with a beautiful hillside view of an incredible harbor, to be inspiring, and I actually like the sound of my room for my own tracking purposes, but no two ways about it (I'm facing a corner), this space is not at all accurate for monitoring.

It just gets me thinking- if the goal is being able to produce great sounding tracks without needing to worry about clocked time, but you don't have space to really get accurate- is it worth worrying about great monitoring gear? If so, how do I go about figuring out the optimal monitor set up for my space- both in terms of gear (ie. should I dump my mackies for a maybe higher priced, but more convenient- smaller, better sounding- pair of speakers and great DA) and set up (I don't know what the optimized physical set up would be for where I am right now)?

[STILL]

Yes it's worth it, and you will learn the room and make adjustments to compenstae for it's failings.

DO the work, make the music, nothing else matters as much as the creation, everything else is just math and techniques. They matter, but not like creating matters.

[BattleAngel]

That's my thought too- and I love the experience of it. Right now, with my stuff in storage, I've been using a computer mic and cool edit and I'm still having a lot of fun.

So I guess the philosophical part of the question, at least for my own interests, is rhetorical ;-) But the question of how to go about finding out what really is the least harmful way to situate my monitors etc. really is something I don't know anything about.

[Albert]

If you can set up facing a wall and not the corner you'd probably find a big improvement right there. I was set up toward the corner briefly and it was horrible. Tore the whole studio apart again and reoriented it toward a flat wall. Much better, although not perfect.

Even if your room and monitoring is not perfect, it would still be better to have an imperfect environment for making music than none at all.

[BobbyPeru]

My control room is uglier than me. Just do it man.

Bobby Peru
Milwaukee, WI

[Berolzheimer]

Go for it. Get some good headphones, like the Aurasones, and/or just treat the hell out of your room. lots of absorbant materials & furniture can reduce the bulk of your problems, at least in the high & mid range. An acoustically dead room is preferable to somewhat live but with problematic reflections.


__________________
That thing gotta sound!!

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

Im stuck in this quandry myself... i got all this wikid stuff but no where 'sonically' accurate enough, and im not really doing enough decent work to justify keeping all these toys, especially when i have a lot of large business projects and plans in the pipeline for the next few yrs. So regretably im going to sell 90% of my toys.. as i have painstakingly come to realise its only gear( OMG how did I just say that!?? ) I mean last week it nearly killed me cos i got offered a large V series Neve for very little $$ and being the gearslut htat i am i would ahve loved to buy it and do something with it but i overcame my gear muse and saud NO!!!! it hurt like hell but in reality i got no where to put a BFO monster like that!

SO wiggy is gona be having a small garage sale early next year to make way for future plans. I figure that if i desperately need to do something i will just have to pony up like the rest of the free world and pay or beg for time !

For me its more of a financial decision than an artistic one. I just find that i will be able to do more with the money elsewhere than sitting in my cupboard.

hope it helps
Wiggy

[faeflora]

Originally posted by Wiggy Neve Slut
Im stuck in this quandry myself... i got all this wikid stuff but no where 'sonically' accurate enough, and im not really doing enough decent work to justify keeping all these toys, especially when i have a lot of large business projects and plans in the pipeline for the next few yrs. So regretably im going to sell 90% of my toys.. as i have painstakingly come to realise its only gear( OMG how did I just say that!?? ) I mean last week it nearly killed me cos i got offered a large V series Neve for very little $$ and being the gearslut htat i am i would ahve loved to buy it and do something with it but i overcame my gear muse and saud NO!!!! it hurt like hell but in reality i got no where to put a BFO monster like that!

SO wiggy is gona be having a small garage sale early next year to make way for future plans. I figure that if i desperately need to do something i will just have to pony up like the rest of the free world and pay or beg for time !

For me its more of a financial decision than an artistic one. I just find that i will be able to do more with the money elsewhere than sitting in my cupboard.

hope it helps
Wiggy

ROFL "gear muse" lol.

Wiggy, you are the GEARSLUTZ MASCOT!

[vtone]

Originally posted by Albert
If you can set up facing a wall and not the corner you'd probably find a big improvement right there. I was set up toward the corner briefly and it was horrible. Tore the whole studio apart again and reoriented it toward a flat wall. Much better, although not perfect.

Even if your room and monitoring is not perfect, it would still be better to have an imperfect environment for making music than none at all.

krap!

I'm setting up my studio right now, in another room, and my console is facing a corner. it's soundproofed but I'm not sure what it will sound like until I hook everything up.

what was the problem with facing the corner exactly?

space is very limited and I had to choose the lesser of two evils: the corner.

[heinz]

Originally posted by Wiggy Neve Slut
i have painstakingly come to realise its only gear( OMG how did I just say that!??)

crazy talk

[Curve Dominant]

posted by BattleAngel:
I find the space I'm in, a bedroom with a beautiful hillside view of an incredible harbor, to be inspiring

Then you should set up your shit and start recording, if for no other reason but that one right there.

My monitors are backed against a corner of my room, and I don't give a ****. In fact, it sounds a hell of a lot better than when they were flush against the long wall.

Try skewing the angles so the speakers aren't precisely 45 degrees off the walls. Also, I have an antique wooden desk between my speakers, so perhaps that's breaking up any sonic "issues" the two guys might otherwise be having.

Monitor at low levels, and check your mixes with flat response headphones.

Dude, if you have good ears and a passion for music, then putting one monitor in the oven and the other in the bathtub won't keep you from getting good mixes.

Make it happen.

[Albert]

When my studio was oriented toward the corner I had major bass problems. Really, really bad, unworkable. Not only that, but everything in general just sounded wierd. So I went back to facing a flat wall, but the monitors are out from the wall by maybe 9-12 inches, and angled in to make a triangle with the listening position. That just works a lot better in this room.

I've seen pictures of studios oriented toward a corner, so it must be possible to make it work.

[OzNimbus]

All the gear in the world will not help if you have bad acoustics. Go HERE: http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/for...php?forumid=20

Or John Sayer's site, which doesn't seem to be working right now.
Or check out Ethan's Real Traps.
http://www.realtraps.com/
These can help out big time.

-0z-

[Bob Olhsson]

For openers just get lots of diffusion happening with book shelves. Many small rooms are really big rooms at low frequencies because of their flimsy walls. It's small acoustically isolated rooms that are the big problem. Walls that leak bass are your friend so long as there isn't a neighbor problem.

[kevinc]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant


Dude, if you have good ears and a passion for music, then putting one monitor in the oven and the other in the bathtub won't keep you from getting good mixes.

Make it happen. [/B]

Very wise words Curve my man.

I would personally say on an artistic level
**** the room.
Make music.
Music is an art form.
Don`t worry about numbers worry about sound.
You can sit in any room in the ****in world and strum a quality acoustic guitar and it will sound good.
Engineers tend to get out of whack with reality with having the perfectly designed room with the perfect monitors and the perfect converters and the perfect DAW and so on.

For once lets remember it`s about music.

It seems like you already have incredible gear at your disposal.
Just use what you got as far as the room is concerned.
I could record a hit record in a ****in closet if I had that kind of gear and I suck compared to most of you guys.
Don`t be a pussy!
It`s about sound not mathmatics.
Make good sounds!
A lot of people have recorded hit records in their living rooms recently.
I think it would be highly ignorant to tell this dude he couldn`t create in whatever environment he`s in.

Kevin

[Kenny Gioia]

Hit record. Adjust.

I have had more audio problems in so-called correctly set up rooms, than in both of the studios I built myself. And I admit, I don't know what the hell I'm doing.

Forget the rules. The longer you work in one enviroment (be it good or bad) the better you will get.

Good Luck

[MIKEHARRIS]

recently supplied 5 Sennheiser HD600 to major mastering facility...you could could compare to your monitors//adjust accordingly...corners+bass=problems...look at a transmission line type of monitor (listen to PMC's)...very smooth bottom (no kinky comments plz)

[Ted Nightshade]

Working without a decent monitoring room...

I have found it very, very useful to tweak everything to where I can't improve on it and then take it to a space or two where there is another known system, at least to the friend who owns the system, that really is very revealing. And play it on the damned car stereo on the way. Then take it home, and listen to it again on your system and learn what you learned. It helps if the friend with the good system is interested in the mixes and music- mine is a (*much*) more experienced engineer, retired, who was able to point out a lot of things.

I think in very, very large part I get away with my less than ideal monitoring situation because I use very little or mostly no EQ of any kind, and obsessively get the tracking right to where it needs none until maybe mastering or rarely anyway.

Also some monitors bleed more through the backs and cause worse reflections than others.

[Ted Nightshade]

Also I've been known to drag the monitor system outside on a nice day and see what the hell things sound like without the walls on all sides...

[BattleAngel]

Great advice, guys. And plus- if I'm happy, musically, with the results I'm getting from my super ghetto rig (computer mic -> no name sound card -> vegas), what's the harm in unloading my big rig and using that instead?

Inspired by the 'shut up and record' comment, here's the first recording done in my new spot, recorded with about the crappiest gear you could possibly be asked to use:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/...d=3081&alid=-1

"So Long and Sorry"

There's a ton of hiss, but I actually think the room sounds great in this track if you can hear it (then again I'm monitoring in the room ;-)).

Ted, I know what you mean about using no EQ. Fortunately, for the music I'm doing, which is maybe a little Badly Drawn Boyish to use a known name, I can afford to be pretty stripped down. Usually my songs are just several layers of my vocals, a few doubled guitars, and some very raw percussion and bass. The sound I go for usually doesn't need a lot of processing and I hardly use any effects at all besides the very occasional trem or reverb.

Thanks for all the responses, guys. I think that I'll be able to get this situation under control. Anyway, I only need to record myself until I find the right engineer/studio to work with/at. Then I can just worry about playing ;-)

[Scinx]

Excellent music. If you put out a cd with nice recordings let me know. What instruments are you using?

[BattleAngel]

Hey, thanks man :-) I know I can do better recordings myself, although I would so love to do a recording that was really clean, rich, and natural sounding. I have the sonics in my head but I can't get them, or some other key things like objective input on arrangement without finding a producer/engineer to work with. I just have this sonic picture in my head of like a modern day beatles type thing- like a little lo-fi sounding but just undeniably gorgeous with a ton of depth. To me, it's like the sonic representation of a really really fine wine. I think you can hear how my demos just scream out for that kind of production.

Anyway! Sorry to get off topic, lol

[Curve Dominant]

posted by KevinC:
Engineers tend to get out of whack with reality with having the perfectly designed room with the perfect monitors and the perfect converters and the perfect DAW and so on...

...and then go on to make some of the most dreadfully irrelevant, boring "music" one could possibly fear.

Perfectionism sucks. Perfection is impossible, under any circumstance.

Excellence rules. Excellence is totally possible, under any circumstance.

posted by ProduceHer:
Hit record. Adjust.

I have had more audio problems in so-called correctly set up rooms, than in both of the studios I built myself. And I admit, I don't know what the hell I'm doing.

Forget the rules. The longer you work in one enviroment (be it good or bad) the better you will get.

K,

You know, I STILL use that mix of yours that we talked about on the MusicPlayer forum to A/B some of our mixes with. Perhaps it wasn't so apparent in that last CD I sent you, but we've been improving, slowly but surely.

Suffice to say, I'm in total agreement with ProduceHer: Just Do It. Listen hard, reference on as many systems as possible, adjust, repeat. Trust your ears, and trust your instincts.

Above all, remember that most peeps are not "golden ears" and so don't let sonic imperfections prevent you from recording great art, and sharing those works with the world. The intent of the artist is what we live for, so let's not stand in the way of that with our gear insecurities, because that sucks.

See the glass as half-full, not half-empty.

[tee]

Lots of good ideas here .......... I would say it's definitely do-able in your current space, a nice realistic 'verb used subtly goes a long way. What are the dimensions of your space?

There's definitely a balance though. Up until recently I had only tracked in my small one room space with great results after alot of trial and error. In the last few weeks I've had the opportunity to do some recordings at my friend's home which is an old stone church complete with a functional pipe organ. That acoustic space goes a long way in helping the richness of a recording. It gives you a head start from a textural / depth standpoint and I found blending different real spaces helps increase the separation between elements of a production.

I was lucky enough to pick a couple of DA-78's for a very fair price and a 16-channel Mackie to monitor from ......... I rack up my pre's, the DA-78's and I'm good to go. Then I bring it home and dump into the computer.

But I still recorded all the time, before I had this option, so if you have the gear and the inspiration - take advantage of it, because when it shows up you have to capture it ..... the muse waits for no one.

Go for it and good luck.

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

[B][QUOTE]

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

...look at a transmission line type of monitor (listen to PMC's)...very smooth bottom (no kinky comments plz)

...

Mike.. PMC's need a good room to work properly. I was trying them out in my lil dog box room and it was doing my head in cos i know the potential of the speakers and they were just not working in the room.. PMC's need room volume/litreage to really shine..... they went back to the dealer and my trusty NS-10's we abck in the breach once again,grudge grudge

Transmission line speakers are hit and miss in most rooms.. just get a good room and those puppies come alive like no other!


One day i pray to god im studid enough to pony up for a set of ALM1's although it will be a long time away.

cheers
Wiggy

[edmann]

many GREAT recordings have been produced in non-treated house spaces. Do a study of those structural elements that are used to create acoustically treated spaces and apply them as you can in your own space. that is: live wall/dead wall - diffusion (book cases - or - other on the walls) - some bass absorbtion in at the nodal areas (simple and can be minimal) and whatever you can do to nullify parallel walls - again with furniture or even mobile panels of reflective-treated plywood (3/4") etc. Go Guerilla! you will figure it out and learn a lot about acoustics in the process

I have operated so much in this way - and worked with others who do the same - that I feel confident at this point about being able to go almost anywhere and get recordings that are usable at the very least and frequently quite good or even great

Monitors in the corner: George Peterson wrote a great article on this in MIX magazine - like 10-15 years ago, perhaps it is in the MIX archive. I had a setup like that for 10 years - the solution was a floor-to-ceiling home-made bass trap right in the corner, covered with a fabric-covered piece of pegboard. Looked great and helped tremendously and was a "temporary" structure i.e. held in place by a few screw-eyes only. That plus sound isolating the monitors with pads of that thick blue foam that is sold as sleeping bag mats worked very well.

good luck in your quest!

Ed

[kevinc]

Originally posted by BattleAngel
I just have this sonic picture in my head of like a modern day beatles type thing- like a little lo-fi sounding but just undeniably gorgeous with a ton of depth.

Thats the first thing that came to my my mind when I listened to your stuff but I didn`t want to seem rude by saying that without knowing what you were into.
I just gave a close friend what I thought was a great compliment the other day by saying he sounded like Freddy Mercury in a part of his song. His response was: Oh come on man I`m no gay biker dude! The point I was trying to make was it sounded like he was really belting it out and had a really intense vibe. (fairly manly attributes actually)
I probably should have just said that instead but Freddy came to mind.


As far as rooms are concerned it seems like they`re all different anyways so it`s really just maximizing what you have.
I really think you can do tracking pretty much anywhere.
Your just going to have a "different" character than a million dollar room and thats not necessarily better or worse.
Mixing is where it gets a little more touchy though obiously.
Thats where you need a little more precision.

This might seem a little exteme but why not call in a local acoustics whiz for a consultation ?
They usually have some kind of minimum price that would make it worth their while to come check out your place no matter how small the job.
A couple of hundred might be well worth it and they might actually save you some money on the actual treatment by steering you in the right direction.


Kevin