The best room to record heavy guitars in

[SLy_drums]

What kind of room do you generally use to record some big guitars (metal, heavy rock, hardcore) ?
Do you prefer :
- big "live" rooms, airy sound, with natural reverb ?
- dead rooms, no reverb at all, perfectly treated (tightened low end, etc...)
- any room

???

In my experience electric guitars are very affected by the room where they are recorded.

[seaneldon]

in my experiences...

you use whatever the fukk is available at the very time you need to put some kind of mic in front of an amp. simple as that. i've learned (i guess) not to think too much about it beforehand because it'd drive me nuts. instead, i just have a listen when i get to work, and if it doesn't work i've just got another problem to solve. i'll certainly have bigger problems than what room i should put the guitar amp in.

know what i mean?

maybe this wasn't the best first response you could have gotten.

[NathanC]

When close micing I don't think it matters that much.

However, I think an amp/cabinet sounds best when you also put a condenser a few feet away from the speaker. In that case I like a live room the best. I guess a dead room could also work, but I would really avoid a small room.

If you're recording the staccato metal type of thing, I suspect a dead room would sound best.

[poncival]

Originally Posted by NathanC

When close micing I don't think it matters that much.

However, I think an amp/cabinet sounds best when you also put a condenser a few feet away from the speaker. In that case I like a live room the best. I guess a dead room could also work, but I would really avoid a small room.

If you're recording the staccato metal type of thing, I suspect a dead room would sound best.

Yeah close micing takes the room "pretty much" out of the equation but if you have some compression going (you won't need too much if your tone is fairly consistant coming out the speaker) then you will start to hear the room jump up in the stops or in the "chugs" when the strings are muted.

You can chop those out by hand on the computer but if you have a limited amount of time it's quicker to go with the dead room (maybe set up a little baffle around the mic and cabinet so reflections from behind are lowered even further) and you can usually lessen the editing load.

A small room can be good, I like to use our vocal booth and we have some ASC diffusers in the corner which I aim the cabinet at with a 421 straight off the dust cover of the speaker cone which seems the "best" by listening in front of each one while the guitarist is playing. Sometimes you can cover the whole thing with a blanket once you get the mic in position and get a pretty crazy dark and tight sound.

I personally would not recommend using a condenser at any distance for the type of tone you are describing. You can phase-align them til you're blue in the face but on the super fast riffs, the second mic always seems to diffuse the tone and take away some of the <a href="http://www.myspace.com/originalprankstacom">darkness and evil</a>, to my ears at least. "Keep it simple stupid" as always, seems to apply here.

For clean tones or more "Hendrix-y" type sounds you might find that some space is essential so go ahead and mic up the room too!

[Jules]

I have been knocked out with some tiny concrete 'understairs spaces' in my time...

When I think of it, to me, the most stunning sounds, seem to come from insanely bright "concrete bunker" type spaces

But I regard anything that sounds like the Sex Pistols - a sonic victory... so I dont know where this fits in to the vairious catagories of metal sounds.. (probably no where)

[Jules]

Try clicking on the tag "tracking guitars'

I am trying to build it up into a usefull database

[absrec]

I never thought the room mattered that much unless you're doing a really ambient blues recording or something that would require the guitar to sound spacious. Even then a small, ratty sounding room works just fine.

-Aaron

[vespiz]

I had a real stike moment a while ago...

I recorded some guitars for a project and was wondering why it sounded
so boomy and.. well, generally sucked.

Then on another project I recorded with the same exact gear (guitar, amp, cab,
mics, etc..) and I got the best d*mn guitar sound I've ever recorded!
This got me thinking, because I used the same close miking technique and everything,
yet the end result was so different.

So one day I was cleaning up the room and was listening to some music while
walking about the place (yes, due to space constraints, my recording/mixing/bands
rehearsal space is the same.. ) I started to listen to the bottom end of
the music and I came to realize that the placement of the cab in the room
has a huge effect on what it puts out and what is captured on the mics!

The place where I had put the cabinet and got out that oh-so-good sound had a
really tight bottom (er.. yes. due to room modes, it might be a null-node..)
whereas, you probably guessed it, where I got that boomy guitar sound, the
bottom end sounded boomy and was all over the place..

So, maybe this wouldn't happen in a well treated room, but I have to go with
what I got!

Catch up on your "acoustics 101"! It might help

[beats workin']

the room plays a big part even if the mic is right up on the grill. the amp works *with* the room. it breathes in the room. if the room sucks, the amp sound, in general, will suffer. it's not as sexy, but it's much better to spend a couple of grand on acoustic treatment than get the next new spiffy mic pre. it will help you a lot more.
david

[seb37000]

When I think of it, to me, the most stunning sounds, seem to come from insanely bright "concrete bunker" type spaces

We have plenty of Bunkers around here, in Normandie, I'll have to try it someday.
For recording guitar in different kind of rooms, its like for drums, it all depends on the type of ambiance you want.
For heavy guitars I'dd rather have a room with very little reverb or use blankets if its very roomy.

[not_so_new]

Yes as poncival said where the cab is in the room can make a big difference.

Also the trick (to me anyway) of using a smallish room for guitar tracks is to use a low wattage amp. The more you can get the volume down the less you are going to excite the room nodes and that means you will be fighting the room less even with close micing.

If I had to make a choice I would go for smaller room with more treatments but I have had some luck with larger rooms and heavy guitars...... it just depends on how you mic, where the cab is in the room, the equipment and the player.

[crypticglobe]

I always prefer something with no reflections. I usually LOVE the vocal booth if it's big enough. To me... this is especially important if using ribbon mics.

The biggest, fatest, most amazing heavy guitar tones I have ever gotten I got in rooms treated heavily to elimate reflection. It's like this amazing thing... right in your face as if there was a direct connection from the cabinet to your ear. If there are no reflections in the room... you can even get that from mics a good bit away from the cab and sometimes unusual things sound very good. I remember back in the day... I rented this house... and the band I was in rehearsed there too. We (were idiots back then) and so to keep the landlord (who lived in the next house) from hearing us rehearse... we nailed carpet to the walls... about 4 or 5 layers thick. All from different carpet shops that had thrown out remnants. Well... it was a crazy room... almost nothing but low end came in or out. So... we did this little demo there... and I remember I was cutting guitar overdubs after we had finished drums... and something didn't sound right... I noticed a light on the Mackie (yup... 8 bus) on a channel from the high hat mic (I had forgotten to muet it and it was assigned to the same bus I was cutting guitars on). So... I hit solo. It sounded amazing by itself!!! It was an AKG C1000 of all freaking things (we were really poor). It was not even facing the guitar amp... more to the left of it.... something I never would have even dreamed of trying of course... but it rocked!! So... I cut many of the tracks with that mic just the way it was. The demo sucked mostly (a big part of that was because I was singing... uggghhh), but people always asked me about the guitar tone... and said they loved it. Wanted to know how I got it... :D

I have tried to reproduce that a few times... even used the C1000 in question (still have it)... but I have never been able to get it quite the same. However... I do still like that technique... I just use better mics and pre's... and I always come away with something I really like in that kind of room.

Anyway... all that to say... for agressive, big rock... I like that effect of tracking in a zero reflection room a lot!

Oh.. p.s. It was a Mesa Tremoverb 100 head with a Fender Tone Master 4 x 12 with V30's... and it was incredibly loud....

[Sqye]

good question.

i usually use this room, when it's available.

(helps LIGHTEN up those oh so heavy guitars - a bit.)

[stevep]

Originally Posted by absrec

I never thought the room mattered that much unless you're doing a really ambient blues recording or something that would require the guitar to sound spacious. Even then a small, ratty sounding room works just fine.

-Aaron

The room can Make a sound

Close mic plus a 87 for a room mic for rhythm tracks

for lead tracks i have put the amp in the iso booth with a close mic and left the door part way open then put the room mic in the live room far away from the booth Killer short delay it works perfect for some solos

I also track drums that way, Tight close sound but if you want the delayed room its there on another track

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Sqye

good question.

i usually use this room, when it's available.

(helps LIGHTEN up those oh so heavy guitars - a bit.)

Cool .... But wheres the drink holders...????

[madcowvt]

Originally Posted by poncival

I personally would not recommend using a condenser at any distance for the type of tone you are describing. You can phase-align them til you're blue in the face but on the super fast riffs, the second mic always seems to diffuse the tone and take away some of the

I have gotten great results with a 57 and different condensers together on a speaker but your right, I keep 'em side by side more or less.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by stevep

Cool .... But wheres the drink holders...????

i usually keep them inside my 4x12s,
or stapled to the master volume pot on my amp.

this way, if they start floating around,

i'll be more likely to find them right away.

(after all, turning up to eleven is the main point of making music, no?,
so this is where folks are most likely to be, during any session)

[ToddF]

It depends if you want any air or ambience around then. For fast rythms I usually want them fairly in your face sounding. A live room coming through will take some of that away. As someone posted it will come through even on close miced amps.

If it is a Zeppelin type guitar then a med to large sized room sounds great. Maybe record a room mic on a seperate track for more options.

Todd

[vernier]

Just anywhere is fine.

[George Necola]

seem to come from insanely bright "concrete bunker" type spaces

thats why we record deathmetal guitars in a concrete bunker:D we dumb the ceiling with fake-traps (rockwool packed in sort of clothing.. like the readytraps but for at much lower costs).

to brake standing waves I usually put a big MDF or plywoodboard in front (about 3 meters) angled to the speaker in the room.

condensor & dynamic works best here. royer sucks for my application, but that is just me... and who am I

cheers

[beaxarthur]

dead room. if you cant find a dead room, lay blankets...anything to cover up reflections. add ambience after tracking w/ outboard effects or plugins. close-mic the cab.

[stellar]

do you think proximity to a wall behind the amp plays a role? anyone care to share any experience with that?

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by beaxarthur

dead room. if you cant find a dead room, lay blankets...anything to cover up reflections. add ambience after tracking w/ outboard effects or plugins. close-mic the cab.

agreed...

I love the old pcm 70 'tiled room' preset on dry gtrs.
The heaviest crunchiest gtr tone that way.

[absrec]

Originally Posted by vespiz

So one day I was cleaning up the room and was listening to some music while walking about the place (yes, due to space constraints, my recording/mixing/bands rehearsal space is the same.. ) I started to listen to the bottom end of the music and I came to realize that the placement of the cab in the room has a huge effect on what it puts out and what is captured on the mics!

Sorry.... I should have added that putting the cabinet in the center of the room and getting it a couple feet off the ground makes a difference in the tightness of the bottom end and overall tone of the cabinet. I still contend that small booths are just fine for recording guitars. Works for me, at least.

-Aaron

[Sqye]

always been a fan of the dead room, myself.

but my current room sounds pretty awesome.

[everybody's x]

for crazy fast heavy stuff I have a single 57 on a marshall 4x12 buried in packing blankets. When quad tracking death metal or hardcore or whatever extreme guitars you are doing, ambiance is the enemy

[StevieRaveOn]

Originally Posted by stellar

do you think proximity to a wall behind the amp plays a role? anyone care to share any experience with that?

I'd definitely say so... I've got a THD 2x12 that has a thin, rectangular port in the back, I've pretty much tuned the bass response I wanted by adjusting how far the cab is away from the way.

[everybody's x]

It's working pretty well, I just make a little tent with mic stands and drape 4-5 packing blankets completely around the front of the cab.

[maskedman72]

here is what i am into at the moment. the band has that nyhc hatebreed/madball/all out war vibe.

got the cab off the floor and there is a 57 and a 421 on it about 1 inch away.
made a tent with blankets and rugs and i throw pillows around if i have any.

this will be quad tracked. so far it sounds dam good. just started cutting last night and will be cutting until the end of next month.
also i switch heads and mics for each layer.