Who has strayed away from mix bus compression?

[Brad McGowan]

There always seems to be lots of threads asking for recommendations on what kind of compressor one should use on their mix bus. I'm curious how many have actually started getting away from using a compressor strapped across their whole mix, especially for rock styles of music. If you are one of those people, what do you think your mixes have gained? What do you think your mixes have lost without the compressor, if anything?

It would be great to get some perspectives from mastering engineers as well. If you are a mastering engineer do you find in general that you can create better masters when no mix bus compressor is used? Granted operator skill plays a large part, but is there a general trend?

Finally, if you have ditched your mix bus compressor, have you instead switched to compressing subgroups or maybe just using a stereo compressor on your drum group?

Please comment!

thanks,
Brad

[allstar]

I started out not using dynamics on the mix bus, then spent about a year experimenting with them ( mostly hardware, but plugins too ).

After much experimentation and trying out different approaches, I'm back to leaving the mix bus unproccessed.

Yes, I'll subgroup tracks to busses to get the effect of compression on multiple sources, but I prefer the final 2 bus to be a blank canvas.

Fwiw, I've been mixing proffessionally for 9 years (doing it unpaid for many years before that) and it may be that a year was not long enough for me to adjust to that way of working.
While I was trying it out, I have to admit to pulling the compressor off the 2 bus on many occasions before the mix was completed. It seemed like an obstacle to the sound I was after and under pressure, I tend to resort to what has worked previously.

I don't discount the usefulness of the technique at all. It's just not for me it seems.

Never say never though.

[Brad McGowan]

Anyone else have some thoughts on this? Surely not everyone hear is mixing through a C2, or 1968, or Rolls Super Stereo.

Brad

[picksail]

I'm a major proponent of mix buss compression. Love what it does to my "ITB" mixes.

(trying to refrain from the obvious cliches i.e punch, definition, glue, etc.....OK, so I didn't refrain).

[thethrillfactor]

For me when mixing ITB i rarely use mixbuss compression. It never sounds the same like when mixing on a console. I do strap an L2 on there and do a mix with and without that way they can either go with a mix to mastering or a version to myspace.

[adrianex]

I mixed my whole life without the comp on mix buss, but I've been trying it for almost 6 month, and I'm loving it.

I took me a little bit to get it rigth, but man, once you do...Its all gooooood

[robot gigante]

I love mix buss compression. (C2).

I always feel like something's gone when I don't use it. But I am compressing individual tracks a lot less these days, which is maybe why.

[RoundBadge]

I try to keep myself in check by listening to the older non overcompressed/smashed music i like.
reminds me of what the good stuff sounds like.

try my best to get it right at the mix stage..w/ automation/or hitting different elements/subs with compression.sometimes less is more.
then if needed, just caress the 2 buss maybe -1 to 2 db with something nice..
lately Shadow Hills/Phoenix.
-to mastering[fingers crossed,say a prayer,hire a hitman ]

To me =Bigger and more depth

Massey plug for the myspace/take home mp3 ref's .

[Gravity8058]

I've used a comp/ eq (usually SSL comp - Avalon) on my mix for a loooong time BUT since I've shifted over to mastering quite a bit I've cut back. I'd been told by mastering engineers for years that they prefer to have room to make that decision at the final stage. Once I started mixing with no 2 mix comp or only a db of action -- then I found that I was able to bend my mixes the RIGHT direction at the mastering stage -- essentially putting off that decision untill you're ears are totally fresh (rather than at the end of a long mix).

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Gravity8058

Once I started mixing with no 2 mix comp or only a db of action -- then I found that I was able to bend my mixes the RIGHT direction at the mastering stage -- essentially putting off that decision untill you're ears are totally fresh (rather than at the end of a long mix).

Good pointthumbsup stike

[Matt Hepworth]

I usually stay without it, but sometimes I'll put a pinch of RenComp or SSL Comp on the bus.

[NesNeedsGear]

compress ONLY if needed. I usually don't put anything on the 2bus at all.

EQ is the best way to shape a mix. A major pain in the a$$, as i've found out. But it's damn sweet when done right.

[unsung]

If I am lucky enough to have my mixes going to a ME ( That usually means I am making some money here in semi -pro land). I don't TOUCH the 2buss. They have the really nice compressors at the mastering place to for all that sort of thing....

If it's a home project Ill use the UAD Fairchild 2 buss and also a uad 1176 for some all button paralell 2 buss comp. you know, JUST a small amount under the surface....

That sounds great on the home made heavy stuff anyway..........................

Not only do I not use compression on 2 bus, I try to use less on individual tracks as well. On most signals, (vocals etc...), I prefer to ride the levels.

Of course Compression has its place as an ffx, but I prefer this in combo, as a mult with the original sound.

I think using automation along with a mult of the original/compressed signals, you can mold/create/shape dynamics instead of simply controlling them via compression.

[alcohol]

I once believed the advice that one shouldn't mix to a compressor. When some of my songs were mastered, balances changed in ways that I didn't want. I talked with my mastering engineer and he recommended mixing to a compressor. He cited some other engineers that he worked with and thought that was an appropriate mixing strategy. He indicated that there should be ample headroom allowed for what he would do and that compression should be moderate. Consequently I bought an API 2500 and love what it does to the mix. Since taking the mastering engineer's advice and using the API 2500, I feel I've gotten a better result from the mastering engineer than before when I was not mixing to compression.

[Brad McGowan]

It seems like many who have posted dig the mix bus compression. Let me ask you this... Do you find with the compressor on the mix that you are using less compression on individual tracks? Or are you compression fiends just sqeezing everything as much as you can get away with?

I would tend to agree with the point that when the mastering engineer adds the compression then the balances get subtly shifted. If you do it yourself then it is part of the iterative process of getting balances.

Brad

[unsung]

Well........... is this about trust? Where do you master? do you know the guy pretty well? do you use the same place all the time? The times that my mixes get a pro mastering treatment, I'M THERE. I'm in the room . He's got much nicer gear than me and we communicate well. I prefer his 2buss options to mine. Plus ,he knows alot more than me.................

[picksail]

Well, I prefer the sound imparted from a 2buss compressor. I still, however, use compression on individual channels, as well. Mind you, in most cases, the 2buss compressor isn't working very hard.

I mix to the point, at which it is DONE. Meaning that the mastering engineer won't have to do anything significant to make it work commercially. I don't want them doing anything to my mix. I mixed the song the way myself, the artist and all the various decision-making entities have chosen to hear it. Believe it or not, there are a few mastering engineers out there, who have the discretion to know when to leave a good thing alone.

[u b k]

a lot of this is tempo-dependant for me. i'm mixing a band whose music is more uptempo than i usually do, and i'm using less and less compression on individual tracks and more on the mix comp. i've recently discovered the joys of the 4-6db GR zone on the api in feedforward mode. something magical happens there, to the drums, to the tone.

but to get away with that much compression i've got nothing on the overheads, 2-3db fast grab/release on kick and snare, nothing on guitars, nothing on keys.

but for slower stuff, more sway than drive, i like to hit individual tracks harder and just do 0-3db on the mix.

i can't imagine ever going back to none, because i always get some gains with no losses. when you do it right, you can do 2-3db of compression on the mix and no one will ever hear it, nothing is lost in terms of space or punch, but it sweetens the tone, it pulls everyone in for a nice group hug.

it can be challenging to use a $3000 box for something that only slightly moves the meters and is barely perceptible to even the most well trained ears. i accept this challenge, and believe my music is the better for it.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[dokushoka]

Do you find with the compressor on the mix that you are using less compression on individual tracks? Or are you compression fiends just sqeezing everything as much as you can get away with?

Well implemented compression IS the sound of modern music. If you're not squeezing things well, you're not competing with the big boys. For all those people that complain about dynamics and what not, they're probably not getting paid as well as well as Spike Stent, Andy Wallace, CLA, JJP, all guys who have no qualms about hitting stuff hard...

Plus, most bands I know WANT their stuff to sound like the stuff on the radio. Very few people ask for "more dynamic" mixes unless its jazz or classical, or, they're some kind of new age weirdo...

[robot gigante]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

It seems like many who have posted dig the mix bus compression. Let me ask you this... Do you find with the compressor on the mix that you are using less compression on individual tracks? Or are you compression fiends just sqeezing everything as much as you can get away with?

Well, less on individual tracks, but that's because a lot of the time they don't need to be compressed and I like rides better to keep levels even. However, when I don't compress the mix buss, that doesn't mean that I compress individual tracks more.

I love compressing individual tracks when I want to hear the sound of compression though. But you don't want that on EVERY track, just on some, right? A little bit of contrast.

[bcgood]

I'm absolutely against mix bus compression. All compression should be done to taste for effect and such during tracking. Then if I want a certain sound for one of my club anthems I let the EAR eq and EAR limiter at it just a little. Screw the loudness wars if you really care about your product. If not then squash it to hell in the box, it just makes my stuff sound that much better, thanks!

bcgood

[Brad McGowan]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm getting ready to mix an indie rock project that is a three-piece instrumental--bass, drums, and piano...no, not jazz. I'm trying to decide if I should use my SSL compressor clone on the whole mix or if I'll achieve the results I want by using it just on the drum bus. Obviously I need to just try it both ways and see what works, but I always like having a solid plan of attack for mixdown. The songs that this band writes could benefit by having dynamic mixes. The dynamics are an important aspect of their arrangements so I don't want to squash that just for the sake of making a loud or punchy record. Instead I think it would be helpful to overdramatize the dynamic shifts. Any thoughts on the best way to allocate my compressor resources? I have two stereo hardware compressors, SSL clone and FATSO. I was thinking of allocating the FATSO for bass guitar, but maybe it would be better to use the FATSO in buss comp mode on the drum submix? I'll be mixing through two summing boxes as well.

Does anyone here do parallel compression on their main mix?

thanks,
Brad

[picksail]

The SSL is on practically all of my mixes. At least for rock!!!

[BrianK]

I don't use it. The people who say "it seems to NEED something" are looking for a "mastered" sound. Which is best done in mastering, in my opinion. Thier mixes need the hype and polish it DOES give. Yes, it makes it "better" - but why not wait for a final perspective opinion?

I can do mixes that are (a) exciting without it (b) sound right without it (c) are not stuck with a certain setting that later causes problems when working with a
mastered album format. I often have mastering engineers also like it and NOT want to compress it so much - the mixes are right and sit properly.

If you need to change your setting because compression would affect the final balances, I think the balances are not right. I know, from experience, what will and won't happen in mastering compression.

[BrianK]

BTW - like gated reverb in the '80s; massive compression and limiting IS a style fad. Should they ever bring your tracks back for remaster in 20 years for a reissue - just like the reverby mixes from the 80s - it will be impossible to remove.

[Duardo]

I know it's not a favorite for the application 'round these parts, but I have a Fatso pretty much permanently strapped across my mix and I really like it. I don't use it so much for compression, though, as I do for color...I'll usually spend some time fiddling with the various controls for warmth, etc but generally am barely tickling the compressors and getting the occasional dB or two of reduction.

-Duardo

[dokushoka]

BTW - like gated reverb in the '80s; massive compression and limiting IS a style fad

A 25 year long fad? I think compressing a mix is a bit different than gated reverb, in terms of longevity.

[robot gigante]

Originally Posted by dokushoka

A 25 year long fad? I think compressing a mix is a bit different than gated reverb, in terms of longevity.

No kidding, a fad since... what, Revolver?

Brad, maybe you could do a titch of SSL on the master bus and rent a compressor for the drum bus?

Or print the bass guitar through the Fatso which would then free the Fatso up for other duties? (I'm not very experienced with the Fatso though so I don't know what it's good for).

Incidentally I just did a mix with no compression on the bass guitar at all and it sounded great (the bass player was very good though).

Finally, an itty bit of Cranesong Phoenix on the master bus works well for me if I'm not using a hardware compressor. It definitely compresses!

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by picksail

Well, I prefer the sound imparted from a 2buss compressor. I still, however, use compression on individual channels, as well. Mind you, in most cases, the 2buss compressor isn't working very hard.

I mix to the point, at which it is DONE. Meaning that the mastering engineer won't have to do anything significant to make it work commercially. I don't want them doing anything to my mix. I mixed the song the way myself, the artist and all the various decision-making entities have chosen to hear it. Believe it or not, there are a few mastering engineers out there, who have the discretion to know when to leave a good thing alone.

Indeed.

That path has always worked for me...