Jeff Buckley "grace" question

[Blindside]

What's up guys. On the track "Lover, You Should Have Come Over" I noticed that the snare sound is one of the best I've ever heard. I also noticed that the rim clicks are set back in the mix with quite a bit of reverb, and when the snare comes in for fills and such, it seems more up front and placed differently. Is it just me? I was wondering if anyone knew if they maybe used two different snare drums, or what the technique was. Also what mics were used on drums.

Furthermore, I think that the production on that song is some of the best I've heard and is definitely the best on the album. Anyone agree?

[novak73]

Just wanted to say this is one of my Fav songs.

Its such a beautiful song, It seriously moves me.

Great production and emotion on this track.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Blindside

Furthermore, I think that the production on that song is some of the best I've heard and is definitely the best on the album. Anyone agree?

Yes, it's incredible, but the whole album is really.

Speaking of 'Lover': I think Jeff had this amazing ability to musically 'translate' the most intense emotions. We all feel these things but he had the musical gifts and especially the vocal ability to bring it out. And he was a huge Zeppelin fan, I hear a lot of 'Since I've been loving you' in that track, not in the sense that he copied anything but rather in the way that he created a mood that is something like a mixture of a good drug rush and an extreme case of longing ending in a huge orgasm.

The entrance of the distorted guitar line at 5:06 is one of my fave ever moments on any record.

[James Lugo]

My favorite song in the world to sing to. Stunning tune.

[johnwayne]

The production is amazing in my opinion. I think the probably automated the snare reverb or changed mics during automation. I love the Acoustic guitar and how it works with the Vibrato electric.

The organ is way cool. It seems as though the Guitars are in stereo. Anybody have any info on this?

I also the one high pitch backing vocal by a girl towards the end of the song. Very Pink Floydish.

Amazing!

[DRC]

Originally Posted by johnwayne

I also the one high pitch backing vocal by a girl towards the end of the song. Very Pink Floydish.

Amazing!

I don't think thats a girl my friend.

[johnwayne]

wow now that's a range!

[beats workin']

normally i hate extremely hi-pass acoustics but in this song they are beautiful.
the entire album is a masterpiece of craft.
david

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Blindside

or what the technique was.

The technique is called Andy Wallace.

[platypipros]

favorite song on my favorite album...any body know what kinda organ is on there...i love that sound.

[Mike Caffrey]

The drums on that album are clearly augmented with samples.

I don't think that there's any big name mixer who's not doing that on every mix.

[Jack P]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

The drums on that album are clearly augmented with samples.

I don't think that there's any big name mixer who's not doing that on every mix.

Unfortunately.... I think it's really missing on a lot of records - the sound of a drummer in a good room.

[Igotsoul4u]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

The drums on that album are clearly augmented with samples.

I don't think that there's any big name mixer who's not doing that on every mix.

I'm not sure about that. The album was release in 94' and was recorded in 1993 at bearsville studios. This means that protools was still in its first revision and was not used as a multitrack. I'm guessing it was an overdub and not a sample. Gotta listen to it again.

[bcgood]

Love this song, love the artist and love the album. Jeff Buckley truly excelled at singing and writing and Andy captured it with a great amount of skill indeed! Everyone could use a little grace...

bcgood

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by Igotsoul4u

I'm not sure about that. The album was release in 94' and was recorded in 1993 at bearsville studios. This means that protools was still in its first revision and was not used as a multitrack. I'm guessing it was an overdub and not a sample. Gotta listen to it again.

A lot of the big name mixers don't use protools for their samples.

Going back to tape, people used the sync head and the Forat F16.

There's really no room sound at all on some of those drums. Just reverb.

[Eide]

Originally Posted by Igotsoul4u

I'm not sure about that. The album was release in 94' and was recorded in 1993 at bearsville studios. This means that protools was still in its first revision and was not used as a multitrack. I'm guessing it was an overdub and not a sample. Gotta listen to it again.

AW was using samples while mixing Nevermind back in '91. However, I am not of the impression that Grace is packed with triggered drum sounds.

[Mike Caffrey]

I'm sure he was using them way before that.


Listen to how identical and even each drum hit is and how distinctly articulated they are. They don't sound like drums in a room.

Last Goodbye is a great example.

[TER]

"Lover" doesn't sound triggered to me... simple matter to mult the snare track gate the rim out and send it to a verb which is used only when the rim is hit. Snare sounds pretty natural to me. Pump organ at the head with Hammond (B3 likely given the percussion) coming in on the right later, at which poin the pump organ balances to the left. Could be high strung guitars-- doubled for sure left and right... don't sound lacking in fundamental or filtered out... could just be really well filtered, but normally acoustics sound awful cut up that high. A very nice spacious tune... nothing zingy, vocal way up front. Sounds like that background vocal "group" part is going through a leslie... pretty nice effect.

-tom

[Mike Caffrey]

What percentage of AW mixes sound triggered to you?

I'd bet, and hope, that it's far fewer than actually are.

[Eide]

Samples to me are trouble fixers that comes in handy when you get a project in for mixing that was badly recorded. As AW was recording Grace himself I am sure he intended (and succseeded) to record the drums in the best way not having to rely on samples later on.

Just guessing.

But sometimes you record the drums making them easier to trigger having the intention of adding samples in the mix. I've done that. Not for Jeff Buckley style of music though.



...

[Mike Caffrey]

Some people mix such a wide variety of music an recording qualities, that having several samples set up is part of their default set up. Samples aren't always used as a fix, then can be used in place of EQ or compression.

[IJsman]

Originally Posted by Blindside

What's up guys. On the track "Lover, You Should Have Come Over" I noticed that the snare sound is one of the best I've ever heard. I also noticed that the rim clicks are set back in the mix with quite a bit of reverb, and when the snare comes in for fills and such, it seems more up front and placed differently. Is it just me? I was wondering if anyone knew if they maybe used two different snare drums, or what the technique was.

Mr. Wallace does rides on the overheads right, at least for the cymbals, so maybe he accents them in the snare/tom fills as well!

[pan]

Originally Posted by IJsman

Mr. Wallace does rides on the overheads right, at least for the cymbals, so maybe he accents them in the snare/tom fills as well!

It seems as if he just opens ambient/room mics at certain spots...


LOL this seems easy and obious, but is done with an astonisheable accuracy;-)

[evangelista]

Matt Johnson, the drummer on that record, is a friend. I should see him tomorrow night, so I'll see if he has any insights.

Ivan

[jumpnyc]

any insights would be awesome. In Mix Andy said he likes to use Snare samples pretty frequently. I also heard he doesn't use a ton of outboard - some halls, a plate, then EQ and lots of fader moves....He's unbelievable at getting something that really satisfies me as a listener.

[pan]

Originally Posted by jumpnyc

In Mix Andy said he likes to use Snare samples pretty frequently.

Propably not in this production though ... methinks


or am I wrong?



Please tell me I'm not!

...OK, there might be tracks that _might_ be enhanced....

[jumpnyc]

from the article it sounds like he uses a sample to trigger effects and mixes that in with the original snare.

[underworld]

not that i'm really contributing much to this thread.... but just wanted to chime in with a big ol' hell yeah on that album and that tune in particular.

i've bought that cd probably 5 times over cause i keep losing and/or destroying it!

over the past year in particular, "Lover..." has really become my go-to track on that disc. i mean - what a great set of lyrics and chords and all that - but the "feel" on that song is just amazing. the way the intro kicks it off and the way it just builds to that vocal climax.... it's truly timeless and classic

i think it's a great example of when all the elements come together - great musicians playing some great music recorded by a great engineer - and nothing too over the top (well .... i guess you could argue buckley's vocal line towards the end gets a little over the top ... but it's just so right).

[Janesaid2me]

Ummm...i dont know what to say here about the original question but i think this album as a whole is one of the most overlooked albums....seems that some people forget to mention in their list of super albums....every song is stellar...the recording, production, mixing everything i think is great...and buckley is one of the best vocalist (in his genre) that ive ever heard...so thats my two sense....if you guys dont have it and are buckley fans pick up his Sin-e full album that came out like 2-3 years ago...has like 2 cds worth of him playing solo there and its incredible...

[kelldammit]

speaking of sounds on that album, in particular, i love the guitar during the intro/1st verse of dream brother. it's so gorgeous in such a subtle way. wonderful tone, and huge-sounding, but easy to overlook on casual listen. it totally sets the vibe for that part of the song.
i also really like the snare sound...it's not crisp or snappy. at first i thought it lacking, but it's grown on me...it's still punchy and has impact...and fits nicely with everything else. i think the cymbals are a bit hot for my tastes early on though...but, damn, what a bunch of great songs, and what a great way to cap an album off.