Making a SubKick Woofer Mic

[Analog]

Ok so I want to make one of these things. I've done some searching but would like to get some better details.

First off, in a given city, where does a fellow get a nice speaker to use? Can I buy one at Radio shack? Guitar Center? Whats the recommended ohm?

So I get TRS cable. Cut one end off. I wire the hot to the + of the woofer and the cold to the - . What do I do with the shield on the woofer side?

So whats the easiest way to mount it? Do you NOT want anything touching the cone part of it?

And so I when I finally wire this thing, I can plug the TRS into my Radial DI, and then to a mic pre?

Is this better then wiring to an XLR and then padding in a regular mic pre?

I do have a pad on my pre, but I've heard these things are way hot.

Thanks for the advice.

[The Byre]

You will get the best results from a 10" or 8" soft mounted (i.e. soft edge, hi-fi, not hard edged guitar) speaker like the bass driver to an NS10 or similar.

The wiring is the same as for a mic capsule. Plus goes to hot, minus to return and the chassis of the speaker goes to shield. On an XLR that is 2, 3 & 1.

The speaker had to be very securly mounted - so much so, that some people mount them in a vice or wended to a large piece of metal. It does not have to be in any form of box and can be open all the way around.

(Personally, I would not bother, but just trigger a sample from a dDrum head or similar, but you will have fun experimenting!)

[Mike Caffrey]

I bought a speaker at Radio Shack, and cut one end off a guitar cable. I taped on wire to each part of the speaker terminals and then run it into a direct box.

I've had people like it so much that they've called up and asked for the speaker model number.

I hang it from the kick drum lugs.

[DeepSpace]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

I've had people like it so much that they've called up and asked for the speaker model number.

Yes, but it won't work the same unless they also use the same brand and color of tape, the same type and vintage of guitar lead *and* hang it off the same lug on the KD...

[4stringerfinger]

Originally Posted by Analog

First off, in a given city, where does a fellow get a nice speaker to use? Can I buy one at Radio shack? Guitar Center? Whats the recommended ohm?

Just from browsing these forums, my guess would be an 8" car sub or car speaker. You can find one of these in any pawn shop, my guess.

Originally Posted by Analog

So I get TRS cable. Cut one end off. I wire the hot to the + of the woofer and the cold to the - . What do I do with the shield on the woofer side?

In an instrument loop, you only want one side of the shield grounded. Any more than that and you will probably get interference. You could either float it, or solder it to the frame with a lift switch.

I've never done one of these yet, but my question is, wouldn't you want to reverse the polarity to avoid phase issues?

[superbee]

I made one from an old M Audio monitor. I left the monitor mounted in the original enclosure, disconnected the tweeter and wired up a mic cable to it. The height is perfect to set in front of the kick. Worked perfectly! Sounded great!

B

Could we get some sound sample from those woofer mics alone?
That would be sweet.

[Analog]

So what to do? Wire it to a guitar plug which then goes to a DI? Or wire it to an XLR and use a Shure PAD along with possible mic pre padding? Which one works better? Which sounds better?

And this may sound like a stupid question, but I'm no einstein here... Is the woofer going to have a + and - terminal to solder to? Or does it have its own wire sticking out.. Someone please fill me in. I just called Radio shack and they have a 6.5 woofer for 50 bucks.

[Riddler]

The speaker should have two terminals that you can get to easily.

Here, check this out, there are some good pictures on this thread:

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...bkick+hot+cold

I about to try this as well, I've got a few speakers lined up to choose from but can't quite make my mind up. I'm not sure if a larger cardboard type driver or a smaller driver with a rubber edge is better.

Tim.

[84K]

The Yamaha Subkick is an awesome product at a reasonable price. I would just get one of them, unless you feel like having fun and getting a story to tell out of it.

[rolandk]

I made one with a 10" car subwoofer and a Radio Shack 1/4" female to XLR transformer.

Sound clip:
diy subkick
Beta 52
both

[Drumsound]

I pulled an 8" out of a Champ that was getting a speaker upgrade. I did a ghettofabulous mounting with some 1x1 attached to a 1x4, all of which I found in the garage. I soldered a gtr cable to the +/- terminals and run it to a DI.

[Thumper]

What's with going to a DI? You don't need to do that....

Listen, a speaker is the same thing as a dynamic mic capsule. It's balanced by nature. Why would you unbalance it, just to send to a DI to balance it? The impedance isn't going to be a problem with 95% of mic pres out there. And the output level should be handled by any decent pre. Usually 0 db of gain is fine, so sometimes you can plug it right into the damn a/d converter.

Wire the 2 terminals on ANY speaker to pins 2 & 3 on an xlr. You now have a balanced system (as long as you're plugging it into a balanced circuit on your pre). Don't worry about the damn ground pin. You don't need it.

As far as driver selection goes, there are 2 schools of thought. Either get a driver with a very low fs... which is the resonant frequency of the driver. This will get you very accurate transient response down to that frequency. OR you can get a driver with a higher fs, right around where you want the big thump, and you'll get the big thump. 60hz, 50hz, wherever you want super huge bass.

I think the Yamaha Subkick is somewhere around 45-50 hz if i'm not mistaken...

I made 2 different woofer mics. 1 has an FS of 22 hz. It is absofreakinlutely incredible as a bass guitar mic along with a DI. Awesome midrange...

The other one has an FS of 50-60 hz. This one kicks rump on kick drums. Adds a lot of thickness to the bottom end. Makes the low end seem louder, because it's longer. Doesn't add too much more volume, just bigness.

You guys are making it way too complicated with the DI boxes, the 1/4" connectors... Do yourselves a favor, and don't EVER try playing with high voltages/currents. You're going to kill yourselves. Let professionals make stuff that you don't know how.

[rolandk]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Do yourselves a favor, and don't EVER try playing with high voltages/currents. You're going to kill yourselves. Let professionals make stuff that you don't know how.

Do yourself a favor........ relax.

[4stringerfinger]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Do yourselves a favor, and don't EVER try playing with high voltages/currents. You're going to kill yourselves.

As if there isn't anyone on here that hasn't done professional electrical work. 0-480v is low voltage. I used to play with 12.5-34.5kV every day for a living.

[Analog]

what mic pre do you use? will it degrade the sound quality by doing the DI thing? I have the Radio passive one. I just got an 8 inch speaker 8ohm and I clamped a guitar cable to it, sending the guitar cable to the Radial. I'm about to test it now.

Question for anyone... is it better to solder the cable to the terminals or is clamping just as good? I crimped the guitar wire to those little slider things and slid them on the terminals. In this particular cable, there was very little sleeve wire. Maybe I'll try it with a monster. Any other words on the XLR vs TS? Will it be too hot for most pres with XLR straight to pre?

Originally Posted by Thumper

What's with going to a DI? You don't need to do that....

Listen, a speaker is the same thing as a dynamic mic capsule. It's balanced by nature. Why would you unbalance it, just to send to a DI to balance it? The impedance isn't going to be a problem with 95% of mic pres out there. And the output level should be handled by any decent pre. Usually 0 db of gain is fine, so sometimes you can plug it right into the damn a/d converter.

Wire the 2 terminals on ANY speaker to pins 2 & 3 on an xlr. You now have a balanced system (as long as you're plugging it into a balanced circuit on your pre). Don't worry about the damn ground pin. You don't need it.

As far as driver selection goes, there are 2 schools of thought. Either get a driver with a very low fs... which is the resonant frequency of the driver. This will get you very accurate transient response down to that frequency. OR you can get a driver with a higher fs, right around where you want the big thump, and you'll get the big thump. 60hz, 50hz, wherever you want super huge bass.

I think the Yamaha Subkick is somewhere around 45-50 hz if i'm not mistaken...

I made 2 different woofer mics. 1 has an FS of 22 hz. It is absofreakinlutely incredible as a bass guitar mic along with a DI. Awesome midrange...

The other one has an FS of 50-60 hz. This one kicks rump on kick drums. Adds a lot of thickness to the bottom end. Makes the low end seem louder, because it's longer. Doesn't add too much more volume, just bigness.

You guys are making it way too complicated with the DI boxes, the 1/4" connectors... Do yourselves a favor, and don't EVER try playing with high voltages/currents. You're going to kill yourselves. Let professionals make stuff that you don't know how.

[PhilRanger]

This setup gives very strong signal, so noize and hum and shield isn't an issue. It is also low frequencies only, so cable quality doesn't matter much. Cable size? Well, it's gonna be WAYYY below 100 mA, so it won't heat either, so size doesn't matter as well. Preamp input impedence? It's gonna be mismatched anyway (speaker is 4/8 Ohms, preamps are many hundred ohms).

Your main problem might be that it's gonna be too loud for a lot of non padded inputs...

YMMV

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by 4stringerfinger

As if there isn't anyone on here that hasn't done professional electrical work. 0-480v is low voltage. I used to play with 12.5-34.5kV every day for a living.

Obvious bass player: You'd be suprised how many "engineers" there are that don't know Ohm's law... That's all that I'm saying....

I would just hate to hear of someone getting electrocuted by some info that they've heard on gearslutz...

EVERYONE: PLEASE just be careful once you start building your own gear... it can be VERY dangerous!!! Not really in this case, but quite a bit in other situations!!!

If you have questions, that's a good reason to not be messing around with stuff!!!

PLEASE just be safe!!!

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by Thumper

What's with going to a DI? You don't need to do that....

Listen, a speaker is the same thing as a dynamic mic capsule. It's balanced by nature. Why would you unbalance it, just to send to a DI to balance it?

If you're asking me, the answer is - I have no idea what I'm doing. I make sounds, not gear.

[taturana]

some people claim it's the best use of an NS-10.....

maybe if you have some of those woofers around....

[Jeff A. Roberts]

Originally Posted by Thumper

What's with going to a DI? You don't need to do that....

Listen, a speaker is the same thing as a dynamic mic capsule. It's balanced by nature. Why would you unbalance it, just to send to a DI to balance it?

I made 2 different woofer mics. 1 has an FS of 22 hz. It is absofreakinlutely incredible as a bass guitar mic along with a DI.

You guys are making it way too complicated with the DI boxes.

Thumper, I is confusinated.

First you say, "What's with going to a DI? You don't need to do that....", then you praise the "absofreakinlutelty incredible" results of using one of your speaker mics with a DI!

We shouldn't use a DI but you should? Am I missing something? Not trying to be a smartass here, just seeking clarity.

BTW, your concept of using different resonance speakers seems excellent, and I will try it.

[Allesmachine]

I think he means that he is recording the output of the bass through a DI as well as through the speaker mic. A splitter is involved i assume

[Jeff A. Roberts]

Originally Posted by Allesmachine

I think he means that he is recording the output of the bass through a DI as well as through the speaker mic. A splitter is involved i assume

Well, that makes sense. I WAS missing something. Thanks for clearing that up.

[uncle duncan]

I'm using a 8" Infinity subwoofer that blew it's internal power amp - twice. After the second power amp blew I removed it and left the speaker in the enclosure. I would think the enclosure would help the response of the speaker, since the enclosure is tuned to match the resonant frequency of the speaker, but who knows. It's not exactly a high fi sound. Just gives you a little 'thump' to enhance whatever kick mic you're using.

[StudioTinPanAll]

i use a beyma xm-15 (15")
and it works perfectly ! ( for kick only )
if you use smaller woofers you might need an attenuator ...
small car-radio speakers are good for toms, snare, bass, ...

grtz,

wim

[Robearto4]

So any old 8" or 10" speaker will do?

[andrewscott]

The reason for using the di is because its a transformer. Its increasing the impedance. Which is needed depending on which speaker you use to make the mic

[Slikjmuzik]

All you need is any 6.5in speaker. *ohm, 4ohm, they might have different tonal characteristics, but will still work going into a DI. I wudn't think an 8in or 10in wud recover quick enuf...that's just me and I'm sure my mind can be changed once I hear it. I've heard 5.25in woofers work fine and you can spend $6.99 for one of these at Wal-Mart or Pep Boys or Discount Auto Parts. You're just trying to get a larger diaphragm than what is essentially built into any production mic. This thing is simply intended to interpret low frequencies better or in a more exaggerated way that for a kick...works!! Simple as that.

[imloggedin]

holy thread revival batman

[biggator6]

as long as it's back from the dead... someone pointed out a great web page with details on construction (with built-in DI!)
SPKR MiK: How to make a microphone from a speaker.