ADK Hamburg & Vienna vs "II AU" Versions

[warhead]

We did some recent comparison clip recording sessions at the Jam Room with a ton of different mics on lots of different sources. One session happened to include the ADK Vienna & Vienna II AU, and the ADK Hamburg and Hamburg II AU. A fellow Gearslut started asking me to hear those clips, but I figured it would take as much time to temporarily throw them up on my nowhereradio.com site for all to hear rather than just him.

The chain is:
Mogami Gold series mic cable
Earthworks 1022 mic pre
ProTools HD

The clips are in 192 mp3, click the right side download arrow to get them.

Sources are:

Acoustic Guitar
Clean Amp
Distorted Amp
Female Vocal
Hip Hop Vocal
Male Vocal

All recorded at the Jam Room Recording Studio by owner Jay Matheson.

Vienna II / Hamburg II Clips

War

[jowillie]

Thanks for that Warren.
The Vienna surprised me with its smoothness.
WE

[dlmorley]

Thanks Warren
The new versions certainly sound nicer to my ears.
Maybe I should check out the Hamburg II

[Hulk]

I actually like the ADK Hamburg better than the Hamburg II model in this particullar test!

The Hamburg II sounds a little more brittle and sibilent and on the guitartracks it even seems to distort a little. It has that "Chineese" sound to me .

The Hamburg seems to have a little more cut in the upper mids and it does not have the brittle sound in the highs it also has more punch in the lows without sounding muffled. I think it sounds great on the disorted guitar track.

Both mics take EQ, verb and comp well but I definately like the mk I model better than the new Hamburg in this test.

I did not hear the Vienna

[dlmorley]

I just found the original Hamburg a little muffled compared to the II especially on acoustic. The Vienna II seems very upfront and bright but I liked that on the acoustic again. I thought the original Vienna a bit weak compared to the rest, but all seemed like nice mics especially for the money.
The orignal hamburg is under $300 so does seem a bit of a bargain. I'm not sure I'd pay 3 times that for the II having thought about it.

[AvS]

I think the Hamburg II sounded pretty bad on every recording compared to the first model. Man those S sounds on the male vocals and the clean guitar
I definetly prefer the sound of the older models on these recording. Less harsh and warmer imo.

[dlmorley]

Are you sure those warm sounds would cut through a mix? I find the original to be just a touch dull TBH.

[Arsene]

Actually I think all mics have a distinctive quality of their own - although I thought the II models to be somewhat clearer - but none of them sounds bad... I want my ADK!!!

[sdelsolray]

I like the mids in the Hamburg MkII and Vienna MkII, in comparison to the mids of the Hamburg MkI and Vienna MkI, respectively. The bass is tighter in the updated mics too.

[Ted Perlman]

Originally Posted by jowillie

The Vienna surprised me with its smoothness.

The original ADK Vienna mic has long been one of my favorite steel string acoustic mics. It gives that "expensive" acoustic guitar sheen instantly - especially if it's a good player and instrument.

[warhead]

Interesting update: Larry V. from ADK has informed me that the "II" versions we had for this session were not the "AU" Australian capsules. I've asked Larry to pop in here and explain the differences (I've never used the AU version, not yet!) so we'll see if he pops in.

War

[MadGuitrst]

Acoustic Guitar:
Hamburg I - natural, even, full, nice highs - I like it.
Hamburg II - Unnatural, scooped mids, has an Ovation effect on the guitar - it sucks.
Vienna I - not as full as the Hamburg, less mids, more highs....at least you can hear more of the pick on the strings. Nice, but the Hamburg I is still better.
Vienna II - interesting, sounds processed....lively, odd mids, sort of like a metal bodied guitar, this might work well in a mix or as a compliment so something like the Hamburg I.

Overall I like the Hamburg I the best. It's the most natural and I;d best you could do the most with it regarding placement and EQ. The Hamburg II just sucked, period.

Clean Guitar:
Hamburg I - again..... full with easy on the ears highs, maybe a bit dull in the highs.
Hamburg II - better than on acoustic guitar, processed sounding, hollow mids, sounds like it might work well for Tele twang.
Vienna I - I like this the best, clearer than the Hamburg I and would probably sit best in a mix.
Vienna II - sounds EQ'd, very present and would be the best of the 4 for cutting through in a mix.

Overall I think I'd pick the Vienna I bcause I believe I could easily EQ it to sounds like the Vienna II but not vise-versa. I just don't seem to like the Hamburg II on guitar at all. It's tiny, tinny, hollow and small. Yuck!!!

Distorted Guitar
Hamburg I - sounds a tad muffled, maybe just off axis sounding. Not bad, not great
Hamburg II - hyper on axis, can really hear the speaker grind too much, I bet it might sound good a bit off axis, but as is, sounds like a speaker without being in a cabinet.
Vienna I - most natural, well balanced, good highs but can still feel a hiint of a brownishness. Would probably be the most versatile.
Vienna II - better than the Hamburg II as it has a tad more body but still too much speaker grind coming through.

Overall, it sounds like the II versions may be more open but that isn't working for the distorted guitar. Maybe if they were placed differently. I dunno, they seem to lack any body at all.

Female Vocal
Hamburg I - a bit of grit, a little blanketed in comparison, seemed to not handle being pushed hard.
Hamburg II - Ah....no we hear it shine a bit. Very clear, no grittiness, excellent highs that are sweet and not harsh. Sounded very good.
Vienna I - clearer than the Hamburg, still some grit, handled being pushed better, not as open and airy as the Hamburg II, which is better than either of the Is without a doubt.
Vienna II - extremely clear, too much so maybe, the highs were a tad hard on the ears.

Overall - the Hamburg II was the clear winner.

Male Vocals
First off.....these vocal lines are filled with esses and eches.
This could be good or bad depending on what you want to show.
Hamburg I - slightly veiled but even.
Hamburg II - Open and airy, the esses and eches are pushing it a bit....maybe sing a bit of axis.
Vienna I - similar to the hamburg I, but ironically a tad more veiled.
Vienna II -sibilance galore on this vocalist...ouch, it hurt. Whatever the other qualities were killed for me by the sibilance.

Overall, the II versions are obviously much more open and detailed on vocals. For this vocalist the sibilance was just way too much on the Vienna II and just about all I could take with the Hamburg II. I think it could easily be tamed with the Hamburg II, would require more work with the Vienna II and not sure if it would be worth it. In all, I'd again pick the Hamburg II first. With a different voice these mics could either be way better or way too harsh; however, I do think they show a much greater level of detail overall.

So there you have it.....a mixed bag......as would be expected.
They all have their qualities, just like any four different mics.

[MadGuitrst]

Originally Posted by warhead

Interesting update: Larry V. from ADK has informed me that the "II" versions we had for this session were not the "AU" Australian capsules. I've asked Larry to pop in here and explain the differences (I've never used the AU version, not yet!) so we'll see if he pops in.

War

Maybe that will take care of the sibilance on the II versions........
Still, why in the world would Larry send you prototypes per se?
Some one smack Larry!

[popmann]

Overall I like the Hamburg I the best.

Overall I agree. As an interesting side note...my Hamburg has FAR more high end than you samples. Now, I get why everyone talks about them being dark...mine have the same basic sound/curve, but with a much more open high end. I'm not sure that say a bunch for their QC.

Nothing in those "2" clips impressed me. You know, I got an email from Larry not long ago about him talking to someone in Australia about caps...I wondered how you got them so quickly. Now, I guess I know.

[popmann]

Re: Male Vocals --Vienna I - similar to the hamburg I, but ironically a tad more veiled.

Actually, I've long been a preacher of the two "high ends" for the male voice. There's the air...and the upper mids. Detail (particularly in a mix) tends to come from the upper mids, which the H1 has plenty of...on males, the "air" is just that, IMO. Thus why the less mid foward Vienna seems more veiled despite the bigger high end bump on it.

H1---seemed to not handle being pushed hard.

This is a drawback of the mic, IMO. I can push mine too hard very easily. And the pad on it sounds rotten. When I mentioned it to Larry, he assured me they would fix that with "2".

[squeegybug]

Originally Posted by warhead

Interesting update: Larry V. from ADK has informed me that the "II" versions we had for this session were not the "AU" Australian capsules. I've asked Larry to pop in here and explain the differences (I've never used the AU version, not yet!)

And that is a main reason I gave up on ADK mics long ago. No way to keep up with all the continual changes of existing mics. Bright/brighter/brightest/moderate/mellow/dark/dull/strong/soft/whatever versions of every model it seems, all on the market simultaneously.

I know some other mic companies that seem to do similar things. Good grief, just number them individually instead of using the same names, or something.
Or.... just design a microphone properly, release it, and leave it alone?

Steve

[Larry Villella]

Good question! And good discussion, I must add!!

I think this may well be my first ever post to Gearslutz.

Just to clarify a few points (hope this is within accepted protocal):

ADK is a totally boot-strapped company that started with the idea of building
a few sonic replica mics for our friends. We're a Micro-Brewery if you will. Brian
and I are experts in Acoustic Instruments, we play multi-axes, and have both
had 'project studios' for about 40 years (before anyone called them that).


Secondly, my dad was an inventor, with around 100 patents on the internal
combustion engine. So it's in my nature to want to tinker with things to get
Improved Performance. We pushed the Chinese builders each and every year
for more European Components, better Workmanship, and pushed our design
guys to find ways to Constantly Push the Envelope for Better, Affordable Tools!

To build our new High-End Custom USA Gear has been almost a four year saga !!


Finally, the soundfiles that Warren Posted is a Prototype of the Version II
Previous to the New Aussie-Designed (and Very Much Smoother) Capsule.

Those golden ears among you heard the very accurate electronics actually
emphasizing the peakiness in the old-style Chinese Capsule. (Good ears !!)


So - my only hope is that the members take time to hear the Final Version!!

ADK is NOT a Marketing Company. We're Musicians on a Quest for TONE!

With apologies for constantly trying out New Technologies, it's who we are.

We're simply musicians living in the woods who got mad at Vintage Prices,
and decided to come up with some "Home Brew" Gear. I like Stout and Brian
likes Amber Ale. Our Mic colors are - by design - varied to suit many tastes!


Thanks for the chance to make a difference in your signal-chain !!!


Respectfully,

Larry J. Villella, Co-Founder, ADK Microphones


www.adkmic.com

www.myspace.com/adkmic

[foldback]

Larry, thanks for the post.

Out here in the trenches the ADK marketing appears to have changed for these mics, but you've already trained us to think you're in the business of hawking China-made mics. Not that that in itself is bad, it's just the way we gear consumers view your company (I'm speaking for myself and a few other gear sluts who are over here at my studio because I have power on and theirs is still off due to ice storm).

The fad of late seems to be buying China mics, bring them to the US, take them apart, improve them, inject magic and then sell them for much much higher prices (or in the case of Telefunken, just bring them over and try to sell them for a lot more without adding any magic :-(

How about "handmade in the USA". This phrase has been bastardized to where it is totally meaningless. If the product is really an Asian product improved in the US then that is the story and any other marketing is misleading and IMHO, dishonest.

I don't have a problem with Asian products but I don't like all the confusing and dishonest marketing that is going on by so many brands (I'm not pointing a finger at anyone in particular).

ADK has really good looking products. When you do a total rework of a model, it would be less confusing if you gave it a different name not just append with II. I never tried the original Hamburg and Vienna models but if the new ones are a whole different ballgame, I'd give them a new name and really clarify why us buyers should choose your mics from the sea of Asian originated products.

I too am an inventor and experimenter, I have several Asian LDC mics. I bought them direct from Asia, rebuilt the circuitry with my own hands, swapped tubes and have achieved some pretty good sounds with them (even with stock capsules). I don't need to pretend that they are German or Austrian or Mexican or American. I have real AKG mics along with recent and vintage Neumann models. My Asian mics sound different than any of my other mics. On some things I like them, others I might choose a Neumann. They are all tools.

I am unaware of Australia being a design center for diaphragm technology but maybe they are. I have some Rode mics that I'm not crazy about so Australia is not a draw for me (except I do love all the blonds there). I can't remember your other marketing.

If I were you, I'd come up with some new names, address what sources you think the mics would be good on, post some recorded audio file comparisons and be real honest about what they are and where these mics come from.

[Larry Villella]

To be precise:

The origins of the Hamburg II Au and the Vienna II Au are from the fertile mind
of our wizard Mic-Designer JP Gerard in Belgium. Origins of the Transformer UK,
Origins of the High-End FET, The Netherlands. The Body (chassis) is (currently -
we're trying to find an alternative) built in China. And the Capsule is a collaboration
between a PhD in Physics in Australia (no relationship to Rode) and our lead Designer JP.

All the parts arrive in Seattle where they are hand-assembled and rigorously tested.


This is not a Chinese Mic with aftermarket tweaks in USA.


This is a "Built from Scratch" new and propriety design.


I appreciate the general distrust and incredulity of the more experienced
audio engineers. Yet we gave our design guys a blank check and a mandate
to build the Custom Shop Gear - not to a price, but to an ultimate benchmark.


As a microphone (and guitar) collector for 40 years, all I can do is
try to build the best gear possible, and sell it at a price that is fair.


If our Beta Group (the pickiest guys and gals I can find) all love
the new Custom Shop gear, that is - to my mind - a good start.

Vocals, Gutars, Sax, Pianos, they seemed to love it on a variety of sources.


It's ultimately up to the members whether to take the time to audition one.

[MadGuitrst]

Larry,

It's always very nice to see the owner/leader of a manufacturer on the boards.

I'll be very interested to hear your new mics in their final form and will do so if I get the chance.

Thanks for joining in and don't let the naysayers get under your skin.
Some remind me of Philadelphia sports fans, who are known as Negadelphians because they are negative about every sports team, not matter what they do.

Good luck with the new products!

[warhead]

Larry, thanks for popping in and clarifying. I want to hear the AU now!!!

War

[brithedark]

I will post some cue mixes featuring the new mics (just rough bounces mind you, not really eq'd compressed etc). Just wanna check with my clients before I post them for the world to hear.

Hopefully up by Tuesday Dec 5 evening (I'm on New York Time).

brian

[brithedark]

Some cue mixes with the two mics. very unscientific here. And they are just scratch vocals clients did for me at the ends of sessions when I first got the mics, so they're not the prettiest.

these are the headphone send mixes the clients heard. i have other tests, but i am too busy to post them right now. suffice it to say you can at least hear the naked differences.

http://brianjanthony.com/clients/mics/

[meteor]

Originally Posted by MadGuitrst

Larry,

It's always very nice to see the owner/leader of a manufacturer on the boards.

I am a big ADK fan (Hamburg and Vienna) and have spoken on the phone with Larry on several occasions ... he happens to be a really decent guy with an idealist sensibility.

Also had the chance to speak to Warren from Front End the other day... same story. Just wanted to put a little love out there for the good guys in the gear-hawking biz...

cheers,

[dj_who]

I'm still curious though.

the capsule is designed in australia along with JD from belgium.

but where is the capsule MANUFACTURED? no one has mentioned that. is it manufactured in australia? belgium? US? china?

i'm not trying to be a naysayer....i'm just genuinely wondering, since that isn't mentioned anywhere. just curious.

[foldback]

Originally Posted by Larry Villella

To be precise:

The origins of the Hamburg II Au and the Vienna II Au are from the fertile mind
of our wizard Mic-Designer JP Gerard in Belgium. Origins of the Transformer UK,
Origins of the High-End FET, The Netherlands. The Body (chassis) is (currently -
we're trying to find an alternative) built in China. And the Capsule is a collaboration
between a PhD in Physics in Australia (no relationship to Rode) and our lead Designer JP.

All the parts arrive in Seattle where they are hand-assembled and rigorously tested.


This is not a Chinese Mic with aftermarket tweaks in USA.


This is a "Built from Scratch" new and propriety design.


I appreciate the general distrust and incredulity of the more experienced
audio engineers. Yet we gave our design guys a blank check and a mandate
to build the Custom Shop Gear - not to a price, but to an ultimate benchmark.


As a microphone (and guitar) collector for 40 years, all I can do is
try to build the best gear possible, and sell it at a price that is fair.


If our Beta Group (the pickiest guys and gals I can find) all love
the new Custom Shop gear, that is - to my mind - a good start.

Vocals, Gutars, Sax, Pianos, they seemed to love it on a variety of sources.


It's ultimately up to the members whether to take the time to audition one.

Very cool. I think highlighting the "world" sources would be a vey effective differentiator for your product. Instead of thinking "oh, another china mic with a new tube" I could understand a "world" based product that is actually built in the USA, not just reworked in the USA.

Thanks again for posting here, I like hearing about the inside details of where products come from and why.

I wish you all the best.

[skopje]

They're fantsatic mics i own two TC valve mics. Fantsatic, however theyre made, and where ever they're made

stephen

[jba]

Brian,

Thanks for posting those clips! They sound so much better than the recordings with the old capsules that Warren made (no offense, War ). I can see why you're so impressed with these mics. I'll be checking out a Vienna II in the near future thanks to your words and audio clips.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by jba

Brian,

Thanks for posting those clips! They sound so much better than the recordings with the old capsules that Warren made (no offense, War ). I can see why you're so impressed with these mics. I'll be checking out a Vienna II in the near future thanks to your words and audio clips.

I agree those mics sound much better

[dj_who]

just a little bump for my question.

i'm interested in trying out these mics and followed the developmenmt of this mic on the adk forum for over a year.

but never any mention on where the capsule is manufactured.

where was the capsule made? not designed......where is it made.