ADK Hamburg & Vienna vs "II AU" Versions

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by MadGuitrst

JP, with the Chinese doing all of your work I'd think you have plenty of free time

Giving you the benefit of the doubt that this was meant to be 'cute'.
At this point, it isn't.

[MadGuitrst]

Okay, okay..........I'm being silly.

My apologies to JP and ADK and to forums members if I've been over the top.

I'm sure ADK is doing everything you can to turn out fine products - and I do think that they are in fact good products.

I was interested in hearing the new mics.
I like the mics they already have.
I dig the AP1 and it is a shame it's not more popular because it is just what a lot of people asked for - real hardware plug-ins, so to speak.

But I really don't like how this is marketed.
It really came off wrong to me.
Again, there's no shame in a mic or components being made in China.
But maybe since the stigma is that China = crap ADk felt they had to do something marketing wise; however, I think it would have been best to just say, "hey, we designed a new capsule and are rigorously QCing it to make sure it meets out new requirements.....it's not the same old Shanghai capsule".

I think JP came here to the forums with a lousy attitude.
He kinda went on someone.....not cool.

In all, I wish ADK success with their new products.
But again, really, how can anyone say it is not misleading to imply the capsule is made in Australia (and just when did they become the diaphragm kings?) and that the mic is made in the USA if all it gets here is packaging and QCing.

Again, I don't know that is what is occurring, but I don't know that it isn't.
Note, just because they claim a Brit Oxford transformer doesn't mean like the capsule they didn't design it and have it made in China. Nothing wrong with that, but just call it what it is.

The bottom line is that people should purchase with their ears.
However, I believe they have the right to know some things about thier investment without having to usetheir magic decoder ring to know what they are actually buying.

Oh, as for my Chinese......it's good, but my spell checker messed up my statement.
Thanks for taking the time to decipher it though!

[jpgerard]

What happened to the last posts??????????

[jpgerard]

OK, so the GS maintenance crew ****ed up and didn't have a backup. nice.

So I'll use my own backup if you don't mind.

JP's Reply to Mad:

Hi Mad,

JP, with the Chinese doing all of your work I'd think you have plenty of free time

Good one!

But maybe I have it all wrong. I don't want a war with you or anyone else. Who needs that? I have always liked ADK and have stated nice things about your products, especially the AP1.
So, let me start over. Allow me to simply ask a few questions:
JP, please tell all of us what makes your designs new and exciting.

Well I believe that over the years I've developped an ear for microphones... the response for the first Hamburg, a realtively "dark" sounding mic when super bright mics were all the rage, seems to indicate that I'm doing something right. I try hard to get my designs to sound real but at the same time, have a little bit of extra personality that might be useful when recording.

How do they differ from your other designs?

The MKI? Well, Larry basically said, spec parts and components for those mics the way you'd spec a mic that you would male for YOURSELF. So with the MKIIs, I didn't have to deal with "but doing this will increase the production cost too much". That's a big difference right there. With the new capsules, I could get the tone I wanted without having to add drastic EQ in the mic (the Hamburg especially has a lot of EQ built in).

What improvements have been made?

New circuit, new components, new caspules, new PCB layout, new accessories, new bodies. All improvements.

How do these compare to long standing designs from other mic makers?

I, and I'm not the only one, prefer the MKIIs over old standards like the original 414 and 87. I have a 414 and a 414EB which I sometimes use because they have their distinct tones. I still haven't used my 87 this year though. I know I'v been compalining about the 87 for ages. So now I can say "hey, listen to the HII Au, that's what I wish the 87 sounded like". But our new mics aren't as technically perfect as a 103 or a Gef 930. I mean, those are excellent mics. However, I'm not a big fan of their sound... I think that at some point we'll try to make super quiet mic with a very high overload margin. But at this point we prefer to stick to making the things sound good.

Honestly, I don't care if a mic is made on the moon; I only care about the sound.
I have mics (maybe yours) and preamps (Chameleon Labs, GT The Brick) with a Chinese heritage and make no apologies for them.

But you have gotten my curiosity piqued about the version II mics, so if I may ask:
In what country is the transformer made?

It's made in the UK by OEP.

In what country is the High-End FET made?

I have no idea and the country varies from batch to batch, just like most transistors and other components.

In what country is your boards stuffed and soldered?

PCB: mainly China
Transformer + capsule wiring: USA

I appreciate your honesty in answering the question about the capsule, even if I think your marketing is misleading.
If you don't answer these questions I'll understand - I guess the backlash from having all of the mic components made in China, including having the boards stuffed there, might be more than you wish to endure.

I've been mad at China for a long time. Only now do I see the end of the tunnel. Good stuff can come from China. It just takes a lot of effort...

[popmann]

I hope they're cool. I'd love to try them.

The cardioid only at the price point makes it less appealing, IMO.

[MadGuitrst]

Well that stinks JP!!!

Anyhow, once again, thanks for being so up front with everything.
As much as I don't dig the marketing aspect, I very much appreciate and respect you coming here and being straight up about the facts.

Again, I have always liked ADK and wish you well with your new mics.
I will certainly get to try them at some point.

Your new bud .....Mad

[Larry Villella]

In the end, it comes down to what people want (or are trained) to hear.

The Response Curves of Microphones, historically, from the dark 47's to the
mid-rangy 67's to the brighter (narrower) 87's is a good example of this.

In my 40 years in the recording arts, the tastes and trends seem ever-changing.

This much I know to be the absolute truth:

1) All our Golden-Ear Beta-Testers Fell out of their chairs over the AU Series.

2) By every measure of science, the new GK Series Capsules are better.

Greater Linearity, Better Phase-Characteristics and Off-Axis Response, More Reliable.

So much smoother and sonic-detailed in fact that a number of TC and TT owners
are sending us their mics to have the GK Series Capsules Retro-Fitted to them.


ADK Sources capsules from a PhD in Physics in Australia. If he gets them from
Albania or Zulu-land shouldn't matter if you love the sound of them. If you
prefer the older version, that's ok, too. The only thing exclusively from China
for this new product is the Chassis (body). We absolutely build the mics in USA.

I understand why everyone is so jaded about this! Several High-Priced Chinese Mics with a
few aftermarket tweaks (re-skinned Chinese Capsules, etc.) have appeared in recent years.


HERE'S WHAT'S DIFFERENT ABOUT ADK Custom Shop Mics:

Custom Shop Mics are a collaboration between Belgium, USA and Australia.

The Capsule, Electronics, and Specialized Transformer were Tailor-Made
as an ENSEMBLE Creation, where each piece Compliments the virtues of the others.

And yes - slap me upside the head for letting a few mics out before the
New Capsule was completed just to get reactions . . . (My fault clearly!)


And yet, the recent Shoot-Out in a Whisper Booth at NAMM, against two
Pristine Vintage Microphones, thru Millenia Media Pre-Amps was revealing!

Some very jaded musicians and engineers left shaking their heads in wonder!

My only hope is that the members will take the time to do a real-world test.

MP3 files don't do justice to these remarkable microphones. Tell me of I'm wrong!


By everyone's account who has heard them in the flesh, they hold their own against
two of the best vocal mics on earth. >> I couldn't be prouder of my design-team!!!

www.adkmic.com

www.myspace.com/adkmic

[uncle duncan]

Been running my Hamburg IIau through a Eisen 'neve-ish' 500 pre, and the results are sick! Velvety, rich, warm. Thank you, Larry, for this great mic. Now, all I have to do is sell a couple of my crap mics so I can pick up a Vienna. Anybody want a 4047?

[Studiodawg]

Larry, Kudos to you for keeping a cool head and professional demeanor throughout this thread. I have "shopped" ADKs for a long time, but now am more interested in them because there are real people that care about their products "right now". I always lean toward companies where the people running the show also interact with users...Lynx, Peluso, Advanced Design of Kentucky- to name a few...so, Thank You for informing users and potential users of your microphones of what is going on in your world...Sincerely, Studiodawg

[Larry Villella]

When a bunch of musicians living in the woods decide to make home-brew audio,
this is what you get. Can you brew a single beer that everyone will like? No way!


More to the point - after you've been brewing for nearly a decade, could it be
that your beer might begin to taste better ?? If the CEO decides to go for three
years without a paycheck so he can build 3 new Micro-Breweries, what then ???

Either the H2AU and V2AU are the best darn FET's on planet earth, or they aren't !!!

Not for me to say, that's up to the buying public.


I think if you see ADK as 30 year friendship between two multi-axe musicians and
not as some pie-in-the-sky trading company selling shiny metal objects, you get it.


ADK Co-Founder Brian can take an SM57 and a Tube MP and Straight to a 4 channel
cassette deck and somehow make his tracks sound better than 90% recorded
music from time immemorial . . . . I'm the guy with the Huge Mic locker and yet
Brian's recordings always sound better than mine. So Skill Plus Tools = Craft.


It's less about microphones and more about tonality from our point of view.


Like all improvisational musicians, we work on listening as a skill-set!!!

And it's mostly about listening to some of the industries leading engineers
like Ronny Brookshire and Mick Conley and Ed Cash, or Terry Howard.

And it's about listening to some of the more experienced musical talent like
The Manhattan Transfer and Ray Charles and Kathy Mattea or Patti Page.


We play to a tough crowd just to get past Beta and that's the honest truth !!



Thanks for your continued support !!!


Larry Villella, Co-Founder ADK

1-503-296-9400

http://www.adkmic.com

http://www.myspace.com/adkmic

[MadGuitrst]

Larry, I really don't wish to beat a dead horse, but if you insist.

Originally Posted by Larry Villella

ADK Sources capsules from a PhD in Physics in Australia. If he gets them from
Albania or Zulu-land shouldn't matter if you love the sound of them. If you
prefer the older version, that's ok, too.

The only thing exclusively from China
for this new product is the Chassis (body). We absolutely build the mics in USA.

I understand why everyone is so jaded about this! Several High-Priced Chinese Mics with a
few aftermarket tweaks (re-skinned Chinese Capsules, etc.) have appeared in recent years.

However, if you tell people things that aren't the truth, it will undoubtedly come back to bite you. I'm not saying you are or aren't.

Now, about the PhD in Australia. PhD in what? Who cares? Were the people who designed the M7 PhDs? Does anyone care? Anyone?

How does the PhD help him design better capsules?
What is different from other capsules?

You say the capsules are made in the USA, imply something negative with Chinese capsules being re-skinned, yet JP Gerard stated the new ADK Australian Designed capsules are MADE in China

He also stated the boards are assembled mostly in China

Sheesh Larry......it just comes off very badly.
Why not just say the mics are a collaboration between people who have come up with a good product? Then there would be all of these questions.
Seriously - why?
Why do you keep bringing up the PhD? Why?

Just let it be.....please......
I don't want to be a pain in the butt, but you keep raising issues.......just like bringing this thread back from the grave and starting things all over again.

One last thing: You have contradicted JP Gerard. Which one of you is right?

[Larry Villella]

I don't think JP and I are at odds, we just put emphasis on different things.


JP is right, of course, at this time, our AUSSIE Designer is working with a Chinese Factory,
as is JP, our PC-Board Designer. My goal, however, is to see how LITTLE we can
source from China. The Trend is toward more US and European, Less PRC.

So what if he's a PhD, so what if JP is a design-genius, so what if I have been collecting
Mics for 40 years. None of it matters. The mics sound good or they don't. If I choose to
focus on the brain-trust in Australia and Belgium and you think that's deceptive, well that's
your priviledge and your right. (Do we memorialize the immigrant workman at the Steinway factory
who builds the piano, or Theodore Steinway's brilliant design-collaboration with the physicist Helmholtz?).


The fact that I have a great design-team is apparent to me. If you disagree after
hearing the product, that's fine! Please remember - I'm a musician, not a marketing guy!!


What I can say about the entire ADK Team is all we truly care about is Tonality!



REF: The Phrase "Hand-Crafted in USA" - According to the FTC - it is all I can say because
if 1% of the components are not or USA Origin, you cannot use the phrase MADE in USA.


FACTS:


Over 50% of the Cost of the PC Board is installed in USA.

The Aussie Designer has more to do with the Capsule than China does.


Maybe you think I am splitting hairs. So be it. I stand by my recitation.



I am on a mission to put Americans (and Australians and Beligians) to work.


So whatever judgements you want to render about all this is up to you !!

But please - don't let rhetoric get in the way of a critical audio evaluation!!!!!


We spent 3 years and darn near bankrupted ADK to have 7 US Built products.


At this point, I think we'll let the products peak for themselves. . . . . .


Respectfully,


Larry Villella, ADK

[JRE Productions]

Whoa! I can't believe I read this whole post today!

Larry and JP, I think you have great products and just the right prices. Each time you have launched a new mic (TL, TT, TC etc) the audio industry took note. While these may or may not be the "best" mics on the planet, there are far worse mic's that cost twice as much as yours. ADK stands on its own merrits in my ears.

I, for one, am not hung up on where each part of a mic is made. I wish I could only buy American made everything, but I can't. Some of the same people bashing you on this post, own many mics with chinese capsules. It seems these days, if the capsule is not made in Germany or Australia, it's made in China. Eventually, they will become pretty darn good at it. Funny thing is, only a few years ago, if a guitar was built in Japan, it was considered junk. Now guitars made at the Tettara (sp?) factory in Japan are highly considered on par with USA guitars. My new Gretsch guitars are proof of this. Compared to the first Chineese mics, the industry has come a long long way.

Marketing is Marketing. Some buy into it, others don't. For most of the audio industry, the proof is in the tone/details. Personally, I can't wait to try out the Hamburg II.

Anyway, I just wanted to give a thumbs up to you and JP.

[jpgerard]

Good God... Larry comes here and offers a clarifiaction on the whole thing and Mad, you STILL attack him with no reason. This is just sad. Larry really doesn't have the time to come here and post regularly but he does take the time to do it once in a while because he has a passion fo what he does and you don't even get it...

Again, thanks to all the ADK fans out there. If you guys want to discuss our products and overall philosophy further, please visit www.adkmic.com/forum , thanks.

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by uncle duncan

Been running my Hamburg IIau through a Eisen 'neve-ish' 500 pre, and the results are sick! Velvety, rich, warm. Thank you, Larry, for this great mic. Now, all I have to do is sell a couple of my crap mics so I can pick up a Vienna. Anybody want a 4047?

The 4047?

[uncle duncan]

AT 4047. A Vienna IIau wannabe.

[dlmorley]

So what do I get! The Vienna or Hamburg???
I'm thinking Hamburg as a Neumann is something I don't have... logical or not?

[MadGuitrst]

Originally Posted by jpgerard

Good God... Larry comes here and offers a clarifiaction on the whole thing and Mad, you STILL attack him with no reason.

JP, you're over reacting again.
I did not attack Larry.

Do you two wanna take this to the alley?!?!?!

Anyway, Larry........I'm sure me and a lot of others will dig your new products.
Hats off to you for making the best product you can.
Bows to JP for being a design genius and for the nameless PhD capsule-designing wonder.

Just do me one favor, would you please?

Just tell us about your products without going on and on about the geniuses: "JP Einstein" and "PhD Edison". I don't doubt they are are all that you say they are (well, JP makes me wonder..... ), I'm just sick of reading about it.

It's kinda like saying hello to my neighbor and have her instantly rant about minutia I don't care about (like every step her aunt Gertrude takes). It makes me avoid saying hello to her.....know what I mean? .

And hey, JP..........at least you're getting honesty from me. I've had a more than a few people comment to me about this very issue. Would you rather people not give you feedback? Would you?

BTW Larry, I happen to like your gear and talked to you once. I appreciated your accessibility and you were very informative.

Anyway, about the mics.
I'd love to hear them. Who's carrying them?

[MadGuitrst]

Originally Posted by dlmorley

So what do I get! The Vienna or Hamburg???
I'm thinking Hamburg as a Neumann is something I don't have... logical or not?

It depends on what you want to hear and how the mics capture the sound.
Try them both, pick the one you like.....you might be surprised by which you prefer.

BTW, what mic(s) do you currently own?
What have you owned or used?

[warhead]

Originally Posted by MadGuitrst

Anyway, about the mics.
I'd love to hear them. Who's carrying them?

We have each in stock.

Must admit, haven't had time to hear them.

You know we're good about working with you in case of returns.

War

[s_sibs]

Just tell us about your products without going on and on about the geniuses: "JP Einstein" and "PhD Edison". I don't doubt they are are all that you say they are (well, JP makes me wonder..... ), I'm just sick of reading about it.

MadGuitrst,

It's really just marketing...just like every other product out there.

Try to count all the products that use the word "Ultimate" in there marketing...Example: Windows Vista "Ultimate"...are we supposed to believe that this version of Windows is the best there will ever be? That's what "ultimate" means.

Don't get so bent out of shape over a marketing term.

[MadGuitrst]

You guy are right, of course.

It all just really struck me funny; however, the last thing I want is negativity, especially with good people.

And Warren, I know that you and Larry are first class when it comes to support, etc.

[Larry Villella]

I don't mind the scrutiny. I just think the focus on minutia distracts from the whole
goal we set out for the "ADK CUSTOM SHOP North " - A Microphone Hot-Rod Facility
now located in Tacoma Washington and ADK Custom Signal Processing South in San Diego.

We delivered on a five-year promise to build in America.

I did the math last night and between 88% and 95% of the Cost to Deliver these 7 products
was from European or American Materials and Labor.

But that's not the point, either.

I'm trying to put out there that this whole new Tool-Box of Audio Products is the result of
art and science working together to actually meld some of the best of high tech and vintage
into the product. Our golden-ear guys and our design guys are like a jazz ensemble.


What they put together collectively just blows me away . . . . .


So here's the Mission Statement, and then I have to get back to the wood-shed . . .


The Goal of the original ADK Mics was to come close to a particular vintage mic at a
price that a working musician could afford. "Affordable Retro-Sonics". Not so much into
fancy packaging or zany grilles, just "put the money under the hood for the best tone
possible for the money" end-user useful approach. Utility above glitz, etc.


The Goal of the ADK Custom Shop is to have the audacity to try to be Better than Vintage . . .

Since we've let 20 or so of the most erudite ears on the planet help develop these seven
new audio tools, JP might be a little sensitive - as team leader of this 3 year-long project.

Forgive him his youthful vigor, from my 40 year vantage-point, he really has a right to be proud!


I really leave it to the practitioners of the audio arts and audio sciences to
decide for themselves. Not a Home Run? Out of the Park is what we hear!!!



With all due respect the those who know more than I do . . .


I'm over-the-top excited about the great design, electronics, sweet capsules and
most important of all, the accuracy and reliability of the Vienna II-AU and Hamburg II-AU.
They have the right curves in the right places, and exceed expectations!!!


Anyone who agrees or disagrees, we appreciate your candor, truly!


I learn more from my critics than I do from my fans, so it's all good!!


Respectfully,


Larry J. Villella, Co-Founder, ADK Microphones


www.adkmic.com



I get lambasted by famous engineers every day, which is why ADK is whatever the hell it is . . . . .

[kingneeraj]

Originally Posted by MadGuitrst

好运气 与;和;赞成 人称代名词[你] 的所有格] 形 新的;新发明的;初次.最近.陌生的 名 麦克风;扩音器

[Isle of Weight]

Originally Posted by warhead

We have each in stock.

Must admit, haven't had time to hear them.

You know we're good about working with you in case of returns.

War

Hi War,
so what the verdict??
and whats your return policy like?

AA.

[bing81]

I have both the Hamburg II and Vienna II (AU versions). I really liked the originals, and used them a lot .. these however, are in another league altogether.

i have some other decent mics, and am used to working with 87's, 67's, 414's etc., and the ADK AU versions at the very least hold their own. If all I had by way of LDC's were these two, I'd be more than happy - though, being on Gearslutz one can never have enough mics of course ..

B

[Isle of Weight]

Originally Posted by Isle of Weight

Hi War,
so what the verdict??

AA.

[Mick@itc]

I'm an adk customer for a while now, purchased the Vienna and Hamburg when they were just baked...

Truth is they did what was promised PLUS lots more.

Larry, JP, you are a pleasure to deal with, support second to none.
I will be securing the Hamburg auII soon (when the wallet recovers from a good time) as my experience tells me I will not be let down.

Regards
Mick

[Chucho]

Originally Posted by Plush

Sir, I'm a grown-ass man of 53 years old.

I know what I heard and what I read and I called it exactly as I saw it.

Boo-ya-kha-sha,
PlushSonic

p.s.--continue crying and also insulting us now

No, you are a child.

oh, BTW where can you get ADKs in the UK?

[skopje]

Turnkey