Does Mixing on a board add the good or bad of the board?

filthyrich · 1st December 2006, 07:22 PM

I plan on putting together a nice rack of 10-12 quality outboard preamps for the purpose of recording drums. My question is about mixing. If I am using my 24 channel tascam M2600 to mix, am I adding crap to a nice mix of clean and pristine tracks I recorded using quality 1073 type pre amps?

I feel stupid for asking..BUT. Is there a way to use the board for a L-R mix, panning, levels etc and not add the "crap flavor" that I would have gotten using the board to actually record? It seems like there would be a bypass button for this purpose, but I just got the board and have done very little recording and no mixing with it.

I have always mixed inside my computer with good results. However, I like being able to touch the faders and move around on the board. Plus, the board looks cooler than a box under my desk.

Thanks,
Rich

RichT · 1st December 2006, 07:27 PM

Just look for the 'crap flavor OFF' button on the back...

Seriously, if the mixer sounds like crap, guess what?

Cheers,
Rich

Snatchman · 1st December 2006, 07:34 PM

Hi. As stated, I own the Tascam M-2600 mkII board. As I quest the same way you are going, I've sorta experienced what you are asking. Thought not a very " hi-end" console, using outboard gear helps this board along pretty good. ( at least better than the Mackie (..IMO).. I mixed some tracks on this board that where tracked thru " high-end" pres. If you go lightly on EQ, and don't slam the mix-buss, it works very well..! ( best I 've heard it sound) The on-board pres are " ok" for some things ( clean but a little noisey and thin sounding)..I'm actually trying to get the master section modded at this time! Hopefully...

...YMMV

rufus13 · 1st December 2006, 08:50 PM

You get both good and bad of the cheaper mixer.

If using good preamps (with good/interesting EQ/dynamic-control), you bypass the cheaper-sounding gain in the mixer micpre's and use the line-level send-returns along with the mix busses. By not changing the gain much, and not using board EQ, only the noise-floor of the board (and crunchy pots) would be added to the program. It could be accepable. If the recordings were interesting, I'd wanna hear it.

Make repairs and clean the connectors (take apart and clean internal pins as well as external connectors) of your M2600 to get the most out of it. Caig ProGold applied thin and light works great. With tiny pliers, adjust any sockets that seem loose until they are snug (making good contact). For the more adventurous, pulling socketed IC's and checking/cleaning sockets can have good results. You may end up installing new sockets (better than the money-saving models installed on lots of mid-line boards). If your faders are P&G or Alps that can be dissassembled for cleaning, do so with a Q-Tip and distilled water.

A desk in good condition will give fewer problems.

Good luck.

Karl

ddageek · 1st December 2006, 11:20 PM

If you can ever figure out away of just adding the benfits and not the crap of any piece of gear we will all worship you !
Untill we figure out that we miss the crap so amybe it really was a sonic benifit after all!!!!!

Kiwiburger · 1st December 2006, 11:44 PM

Filthyrich - what you need is to bypass the mixer entirely. Get high end multiple A/D converter/s so you can record each preamp simultaneously into your DAW.

Then, you can do so much more than just panning and eq. You can compress individual mics - gate room mics with close mics, time align, phase shift, automate, sample reinforcement, digital edits, etc, etc, etc

Were you thinking of using the mixer to avoid multiple converters? That means you would have to commit to a sub mix, warts and all.

If you want moving faders to impress - get a control surface.

filthyrich · 2nd December 2006, 04:36 AM

I have considered getting rid of the mixer and using 10-or-so high quality preamps for drums. I could then just mix in the box. It's what I've always done. It would make my Motu 24 I/O and Tascam M2600 mixer seem like not as smart of a purchase; but I could deal with that.
I could easily mix on my computer and run the stereo mix out through my preamps again to add a little flavor. I would experiment with that. Bla bla.
My problem with that is that when you spend the $ for individual pres; it seems like the nicest ones do not include eq's. I'm leaning towards getting 2 Chameleon Labs 7602's and adding 2 more at a time until I get to 10. I'm also considering the Seventh Circle Kits. Again though..no eq. Once you add the eq; it seems like the $ to quality to work ratio makes me lean towards pre-made preamp/eq combos like chameleon. I dunno. I'm confused and intrigued.

Musiclab · 2nd December 2006, 07:02 PM

I am a big believer in using a console, the problem is the board you got is really not too hot. While using outboard eq will have you not using the 2600's crappy eq, you're still looking at its crappy summing. I dont think you wasted money on the 24 I/O but that board I question. Try a test, do mix in and out of the box and see which you like better.

NathanEldred · 2nd December 2006, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snatchman

Hi. As stated, I own the Tascam M-2600 mkII board. As I quest the same way you are going, I've sorta experienced what you are asking. Thought not a very " hi-end" console, using outboard gear helps this board along pretty good.

I used to use one of these back in the ADAT days as my primary console (and it's still the monitor board in our B 'Tracking only' room, but it's not mixed on and we don't touch the preamps). It's not a crap board, IMHO it's a nice step above a Mackie. If you don't push it hard during mix it won't sound bad at all providing the preamps and converters are high end. The main difference I hear is that it's a bit smaller sounding in it's soundscape and slightly noisier (but not excessively noisey) than a better console. So yes, professional recordings can be made on this console with a quality front end and good room, engineering skills, musicians, etc. Would it sound as good as all the same as above on a higher quality console? No it wouldn't, but I think it sounds better on this console than ITB (more glue), but that's just my 2 cents.

filthyrich · 2nd December 2006, 08:11 PM

Thanks so much for all the good info. This really is a lot to take in. It seems pretty safe that building a seventh circle preamp rack (10 of em) without eq would yeild good results in the actual recording. Again, I just don't want to kill the tracks in the mix on the Tascam.

So, by using the 1/4" effect return on each channel..I am bypassing the eq on the board? Or am I wrong on that?

Also, do you think a decent plugin eq would work better than using the eq on the tascam while mixing from the box?

RusRant · 2nd December 2006, 08:18 PM

Hate to fall back on this cliche, but use your ears. If it sounds good to you your in the ballpark. It can always sound better.

AlbatrossAudio · 2nd December 2006, 09:37 PM

Both. Use your ears.

filthyrich · 9th January 2007, 01:00 AM

So, by using the 1/4" effect return on each channel..I am bypassing the eq on the board? Or am I wrong on that?

I guess to clarify: If all I do is use the effect ins, then I am bypassing the eq and the preamp part of the channel?

All I really want to be able to do is use it as a way to dump everything down to 2 channels (L and R) to burn cd's. I guess that's summing, huh?

I'm still a little lost on how this works.

Thanks again,
Rich

monkeyt · 9th January 2007, 01:42 AM

Wouldn't you want to put all the nice preamps direct to tape/harddive/whatever?

Thus, bypassing the console completely during the recording, then using the line inputs of the 2600 during mixdown??

Seems like if the 2600 is in good shape, and you don't run it too hard, its a pretty good scenario... and a heck of a lot better one than trying to mix ITB!!!!

dbbubba · 9th January 2007, 03:59 AM

If you use it just to mix through it will probebly be better than going ITB.

The problm with TASCAM for me is the summing at that point.
It just doesn't have much headroom.
The EQ is that TASCAM sound (which is like saying "that Yamaha analog sound)
It's just there along with the enitire sound of a relatively in-expensive console.

TASCAM has always taken a wierd approach on all of their products and especialy the analog console and recorders.

I think you are on the right track, but need a better console than the TASCAM.

**Tim Farrant** · 9th January 2007, 06:50 AM

I'd suggest you consider a mixture of summing in the the DAW and on the console. Perhaps drums could be mixed ITB and feed into the console as a stereo pair using the most direct path you have, ie, a stereo FX return.

Which sounds better to your ears - a mix on the console or a mix in the DAW?

Tim

CorkyTart · 9th January 2007, 07:02 AM