DIY Bass Traps. health question

[beranie]

i will build some traps this week. my question is about the health issue.
i will be using glass wool and want to cover them with some sort of fabric/drapery/cloth (don´t know the right word). i will cover them completely and accurately with it.
so i´m wondering if these little micro particle bastards will be able to pass through the fabric and pollute our lungs during rehearsal and recordings?!
the fabric is as thick as standard t-shirt material.
so, do you think i need plastic bags, before wrapping them in fabric?
if yes, where can i get those plastic bags here? in different sizes and all quite big? or can i use sth else???

so: fabric enough?? any ideas? experiences?

thanks in advance guys

[OVERNIGHT]

Dont wrap them in plastic, it will compromise the effectiveness of the traps and these arent that great a health risk anyway. Wear a mask, glasses and gloves when assembling but once assembled, you shouldn't have too many issues. I made my own, they hang and no one really touches them really but yea, occasionally I bump into them etc. I've never had an issue, a mysterious cough, itching or anything at all. And there was a period when I was assembling that I forgot to wear my mask and I still suffered no issues.

Mine are wrapped in burlap like material, which is a looser weave than what you're talking about. You should be fine. Just wear the mask, gloves and glasses when assembling.

[juicylime]

THis is something that I too am worried about. I have asthma and suffer from reactions to things like dust and cigarette smoke, and as a singer I really don't want to do anything that is bad for my breathing/throat. I really want to put some traps in my room though!!

[Musiclab]

get this polyfiber stuff from a fabric store, it's this thin white stuff that's pretty cheap. put that on first and then your fabric over it, it won't do anything to the absorbtion but it will get you alittle more protection.

[Acoustic Cloud]

Youre ok. None of that stuff is much other than an irritant. You can try atsacoustics.com. They have burlap in different colors. Particles wont escape if they are covered.

[Mark1353]

I used a couple of layers of 100% polyester covered with burlap. This is from Jon Rischs's tube trap design. No problems during 4 years of use.

[Bounce]

This has been dispelled as a myth. As long as you have fabric covering the stuff, you're golden :-)
Of course I like the taste of asbestos in my cereal so YMMV.

[juicylime]

Originally Posted by Bounce

This has been dispelled as a myth. As long as you have fabric covering the stuff, you're golden :-)
Of course I like the taste of asbestos in my cereal so YMMV.

I've done a fair bit of poking around on line and to be honest i haven't found anything that is conclusive enough to convince me of that being 100% true.

[6strings]

I think it was a hung jury on the cancer issue, but it could of course still be a problem for those prone to allergies and such... The "t-shirt" thick facbric is probably fine for panels hung on the wall.

[Bounce]

Let me find some info...Of course, all this may be found to be way wrong any day now...

"As long as it is covered you are fine... There as been much talk about this and I will try to find the link so you can read it over.. Now with that said, if you are building panels it is best to wear a hat, gloves, long shirt, long pants, something over your mouth and glasses.. Basically the stuff will not kill you, but you will wish you were dead after working with it.. The US government has ran many tests on fiberglass and all came out fine, but it does list it as something that will irritate your skin when you come in full contact with it (working with the rough material).. The American cancer society does not even mention it on there lists of heath hazards... Trust me I would never put any of my workers in harm so I have done my research to make sure the stuff is safe. We work with this stuff daily...

Glenn
__________________
Glenn Kuras - GIK Acoustics
www.GIKAcoustics.com
Visit our Acoustics FAQ Page "

Of course there is this that could dispel the dispelling of the myth but I guess it comes down to how you could intake the quantity needed to be harmful when it is covered by fabric and not disturbed by serious movement:

http://www.sustainableenterprises.co...swissstudy.htm

This is from the American Lung Association (http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c...9O0E&b=35439):

Direct contact with fiberglass materials or exposure to airborne fiberglass dust may irritate the skin, eyes, nose and throat. Fiberglass can cause itching due to mechanical irritation from the fibers. This is not an allergic reaction to the material. Breathing fibers may irritate the airways resulting in coughing and a scratchy throat. Some people are sensitive to the fibers, while others are not. Fiberglass insulation packages display cancer warning labels. These labels are required by the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) based on determinations made by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) and the National Toxicology Program (NTP).

1994- NTP listed fiberglass as "reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen" based on animal data.

1998- The American Conference of Govern- mental Industrial Hygienists reviewed the available literature and concluded glass wool to be "carcinogenic in experimental animals at a relatively high dose, by route(s) of administra- tion, at site(s), of histologic type(s) or by mechanism(s) that are not considered relevant to worker exposures".

1999- OSHA and the manufacturers volunta- rily agreed on ways to control workplace exposures to avoid irritation. As a result, OSHA has stated that it does not intend to regulate exposure to fiberglass insulation. The voluntary agreement, known as the Health & Safety Partnership Program includes a recom- mended exposure level of 1.0 fiber per cubic centimeter (f/cc) based on an 8-hour workday and provides comprehensive work practices.

2000- The National Academy of Sciences (NAS) reported that epidemiological studies of glass fiber manufacturing workers indicate "glass fibers do not appear to increase the risk of respiratory system cancer". The NAS supported the exposure limit of 1.0 f/cc that has been the industry recommendation since the early 1990s.

2001- The IARC working group revised their previous classification of glass wool being a possible carcinogen. It is currently considered not classifiable as a human carcinogen. Studies done in the past 15 years since the previous report was released, do not provide enough evidence to link this material to any cancer risk.

Of course there’s this link:

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/vi...lth+fibreglass

At the bottom the question is left open ended by another guy as well but…

I guess I may be doomed to be the guy who said this was dispelled (cough) as a (hack) myth when (choke) it was highly toxic!
I did at least say it’s safer when it’s covered!!

That said, I do hate cigarettes ;-)

[mdsmith64]

Hmmm...those findings don't look very threatening. I work in the chemical industry and have to read MSDS's all the time. Some of them can be very scary to read. However, you have to try and keep perspective - particularly in regards to exposure levels and and exposure durations. Search on the net and download the MSDS for sodium chloride to see what I mean (or sand for that matter - yes, I said sand as in at the beach. We use it on top of our chromatography columns to avoid disturbing the silica gel surface when pouring our eluent). You'll never look at your salt shaker the same way again (or take going to the beach as lightly either). Again, it's about keeping perspective. It would appear that those who would be at greatest risk (a small risk apparently) are those who would be working regularly with the exposed material over an 8 or so hour day. I built my own bass traps and used a mask and gloves only to avoid irritation. I'm more worried about the diesel exhaust I huff everyday on the freeway on the way to work (and back).

Oh, and for my fellow asthma sufferer - I've had my traps hanging for some time now and haven't noticed any exacerbation in my symptoms.

YMMV and I suggest you only take the risks you are comfortable taking. Personally, I'm more upset when I have to walk past that the a-hole smoking 2 feet from the door thinking he's doing me a favor by smoking outside. Thanks for the confirmed carcinogens and the guaranteed asthma attack jackass....


Best Regards,

Mike.

[mdsmith64]

Here's a link to the MSDS for sand:

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/s0722.htm

All you need to do is read the first few lines in section 3. Sounds -way- more dangerous than the bass trap materials we are discussing.

Again, if -you- aren't comfortable taking the risk then don't.

Don't forgot the sunblock and OSHA approved respirator next time you head to the beach...

Best Regards,

Mike.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Bounce

Let me find some info...Of course, all this may be found to be way wrong any day now...

"As long as it is covered you are fine... There as been much talk about this and I will try to find the link so you can read it over.. Now with that said, if you are building panels it is best to wear a hat, gloves, long shirt, long pants, something over your mouth and glasses.. Basically the stuff will not kill you, but you will wish you were dead after working with it.. The US government has ran many tests on fiberglass and all came out fine, but it does list it as something that will irritate your skin when you come in full contact with it (working with the rough material).. The American cancer society does not even mention it on there lists of heath hazards... Trust me I would never put any of my workers in harm so I have done my research to make sure the stuff is safe. We work with this stuff daily...

Glenn
__________________
Glenn Kuras - GIK Acoustics
www.GIKAcoustics.com
Visit our Acoustics FAQ Page "

Of course there is this that could dispel the dispelling of the myth but I guess it comes down to how you could intake the quantity needed to be harmful when it is covered by fabric and not disturbed by serious movement:

http://www.sustainableenterprises.co...swissstudy.htm

This is from the American Lung Association (http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c...9O0E&b=35439):

Direct contact with fiberglass materials or exposure to airborne fiberglass dust may irritate the skin, eyes, nose and throat. Fiberglass can cause itching due to mechanical irritation from the fibers. This is not an allergic reaction to the material. Breathing fibers may irritate the airways resulting in coughing and a scratchy throat. Some people are sensitive to the fibers, while others are not. Fiberglass insulation packages display cancer warning labels. These labels are required by the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) based on determinations made by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) and the National Toxicology Program (NTP).

1994- NTP listed fiberglass as "reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen" based on animal data.

1998- The American Conference of Govern- mental Industrial Hygienists reviewed the available literature and concluded glass wool to be "carcinogenic in experimental animals at a relatively high dose, by route(s) of administra- tion, at site(s), of histologic type(s) or by mechanism(s) that are not considered relevant to worker exposures".

1999- OSHA and the manufacturers volunta- rily agreed on ways to control workplace exposures to avoid irritation. As a result, OSHA has stated that it does not intend to regulate exposure to fiberglass insulation. The voluntary agreement, known as the Health & Safety Partnership Program includes a recom- mended exposure level of 1.0 fiber per cubic centimeter (f/cc) based on an 8-hour workday and provides comprehensive work practices.

2000- The National Academy of Sciences (NAS) reported that epidemiological studies of glass fiber manufacturing workers indicate "glass fibers do not appear to increase the risk of respiratory system cancer". The NAS supported the exposure limit of 1.0 f/cc that has been the industry recommendation since the early 1990s.

2001- The IARC working group revised their previous classification of glass wool being a possible carcinogen. It is currently considered not classifiable as a human carcinogen. Studies done in the past 15 years since the previous report was released, do not provide enough evidence to link this material to any cancer risk.

Of course there’s this link:

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/vi...lth+fibreglass

At the bottom the question is left open ended by another guy as well but…

I guess I may be doomed to be the guy who said this was dispelled (cough) as a (hack) myth when (choke) it was highly toxic!
I did at least say it’s safer when it’s covered!!

That said, I do hate cigarettes ;-)

Great post. I should save this one for the next time someone asks.. Seems to happen about every month or so.

Glenn

[yumdrum]

What about bass waves disturbing and freeing fibers? I mix and track in the same room, so with drums and bass amps this is a big concern of mine.

I just purchased 8lb rockwool and speaker cloth but I'm thinking about using the PVA/water mixture to spray them with before installing them.

Will this impede on the acoustical properties of the rockwool at all?

Or is the speaker cloth sufficient. I will be spending MANY hours in this one room. So the extra work spraying them is not a problem as long as the result is the same.

[mdsmith64]

Yumdrum,

"2001- The IARC working group revised their previous classification of glass wool being a possible carcinogen. It is currently considered not classifiable as a human carcinogen. Studies done in the past 15 years since the previous report was released, do not provide enough evidence to link this material to any cancer risk."

Again, read the MSDS for sand which is a confirmed carcinogen with a health hazard rating of 3. It's all about perspective. You seem to be risk adverse, so maybe you should reconsider the use of insulation based bass traps.

Best Regards,

Mike.

[mdsmith64]

Here, I'll do one better. Here's a link to the MSDS for mineral wool (a commonly used bass trap material):

http://www.fibrex.org/pdf/msds.pdf

Compare this MSDS to the MSDS for sand.


Best Regards,

Mike.

[beranie]

all your answers really helped me to get an overview of this topic. thanks mdsmith for the interesting links. and bounce: i really appreciate you put together that compilation!! ty!!!
although i have quit with everything now, the past years haven´t been healthy for my lung. i used to consume several substances . a hell a lot of smoking.
and even if i won´t ever lead the healthiest lifestyle i wanted to get some opinions on this topic. a friend was talking about cancer and stuff so i got a little worried.
but once again... thanks GS... one more problem is 95% clear to me now !
i think i will go for fabric only!

if there are still opinions, keep on posting. otherwise. thanks a lot!

[beranie]

Originally Posted by myfipie

Great post. I should save this one for the next time someone asks.. Seems to happen about every month or so.

Glenn

and i really thought i would put up a new topic here.... searchfunction always helps but i found nothing about this topic... well... i hope i didn´t bring up an overdiscussed topic, because i hate it when ppl do that

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by beranie

i will build some traps this week. my question is about the health issue.
i will be using glass wool and want to cover them with some sort of fabric/drapery/cloth (don´t know the right word). i will cover them completely and accurately with it.
so i´m wondering if these little micro particle bastards will be able to pass through the fabric and pollute our lungs during rehearsal and recordings?!
the fabric is as thick as standard t-shirt material.
so, do you think i need plastic bags, before wrapping them in fabric?
if yes, where can i get those plastic bags here? in different sizes and all quite big? or can i use sth else???

so: fabric enough?? any ideas? experiences?

thanks in advance guys

I built 8 traps out of 703 a couple years ago... didn't wear a mask or goggles. Got that $hit all over my bare arms while covering them in burlap.

Worst reaction: My arms itched.

I wouldn't get too worried about it.

Bass traps work on the principle of turning sound energy into heat, which is how they absorb.

So unless you fluff all your bass traps like pillows when you walk into the studio everyday (not advised) I doubt you're going to provoke many particles into the air.

Have fun killing those peaks and nulls. It's worth it!

[juicylime]

I've read most of this information elsewhere. I'm still not 110% convinced. I worked in extremely close confinment with constant MDF cutting, and only a few years ago that was regarded as safe too. I've also worked with rockwoll and fibreglass before too and compare the external skin irritant to the potentiol of 20 years exposure to the inside of your lungs. I also have a friend who works for a global pharmaceuticul company who was exposed to supposedly safe levels of a chemical that now means he'll never be a father. Maybe you can call me a cynic.

None of the above information states that it is completely safe merely that it hasn't been classified as dangerous. I'm not not afraid of cancer here, but lung irratation that for an asthmatic like me would aggravate existing symptoms and have potentiolly detrimental effects.

And for the record here, this is just my opinion in relation to myself. Not scare mongering in the slightest. I'd actually like to use the standard acoustic materials and keep a very close watch on how my lungs react. I happen to have an extremely sensitive respitaory system that reacts to even subtle conditions in the atmosphere. But if I find the slightest impact on my breathing I'll be taking them down immediately.

[beranie]

so, juicylime, if you´re really sensitive and allergic, maybe the polyfiber stuff is an option for you!
i googled it and saw some pictures and data. looks really good. but i didn´t find any information located in germany. so i´m afraid i won´t find that stuff easily over here.... maybe i´m wrong, but you should take a look at it!

[yumdrum]

Originally Posted by mdsmith64

Yumdrum,

"2001- The IARC working group revised their previous classification of glass wool being a possible carcinogen. It is currently considered not classifiable as a human carcinogen. Studies done in the past 15 years since the previous report was released, do not provide enough evidence to link this material to any cancer risk."

Again, read the MSDS for sand which is a confirmed carcinogen with a health hazard rating of 3. It's all about perspective. You seem to be risk adverse, so maybe you should reconsider the use of insulation based bass traps.

Best Regards,

Mike.

Mike,
Thanks for the info, on that, I have read that as well before and I have already purchased the material for the traps so I am obviously moving forward.

However, I still reiterate my original question on the PVA mixture. Will it change the acoustical properties of the rockwool? Not as concerned about myself as I am my kid (next room over).

I know studies change as they have in the past, this is what is making me feel better about this, but at the same time is concerning. Just want to make it as safe an environment as I possibly can. As stated earlier a little spraying is no skin off my teeth and a small price to pay for a more peaceful mind.

All of the posts that I have read would not exist if I were the only one thinking about this. I also have read time and again that if left undisturbed that the rockwool poses no threat to airborn fibers, but when I play my kit in that small room sh*t falls off the shelves. So I feel that my question is valid and may be beneficial to someone else in my situation. thanks.

[supaheef]

Rockwool, semi-rigid fibreglass, whatever. Won't kill you, won't hurt you. May make your studio smell for the first few days (mine did!) but that goes away pretty quickly.

If you are worried still, cover the insulation in a light plastic (like white garbage bags) in a single thickness. It won't affect any of the frequencies that you are most likely trying to treat (like, everything under 2k), and as an added benefit it will reflect a little bit of the ultra highs (like 5k+) back into the room, and keep things from sounding totally dead. My first traps were four-inch fibreglass, covered in a nice thick Egyptian cotton. In some cases, they were a little too dead. My next traps, which I will build in the next few weeks with a full photo journal, will be six-inch thick, with one side covered in plastic, the other not. This gives me the choice of tone to suit the application. I will be making gobo-style traps, that will move around my studio as needed.

Anyone walk behind a car while the engine was running today? THERE is your cancer risk. Oh yeah, you may want to stop sitting on the mocrowave too.

heath.

[barefoot]

Something that they don't mention on the American Lung Association website that's always concerned me is the presence of formaldehyde binders. If you've ever worked with fiberglass insulation, it has a sort of "wet dog" smell that I fear is the off gassing of these binders. Rigid insulation especially seems to produce a lot of it. It doesn't give me any warm fuzzy feelings - pardon the pun.

Formaldehyde glues are also used in a lot of plywood and particleboard. I prefer to use the formaldehyde free products.

Another big consideration is mold. Mold spoors can really do a number on your respiratory tract and your immune system. So proper construction techniques, ventilation and humidity control are very important in tightly built studios.

Thomas

[mdsmith64]

Originally Posted by yumdrum

Mike,
Thanks for the info, on that, I have read that as well before and I have already purchased the material for the traps so I am obviously moving forward.

However, I still reiterate my original question on the PVA mixture. Will it change the acoustical properties of the rockwool? Not as concerned about myself as I am my kid (next room over).

I know studies change as they have in the past, this is what is making me feel better about this, but at the same time is concerning. Just want to make it as safe an environment as I possibly can. As stated earlier a little spraying is no skin off my teeth and a small price to pay for a more peaceful mind.

All of the posts that I have read would not exist if I were the only one thinking about this. I also have read time and again that if left undisturbed that the rockwool poses no threat to airborn fibers, but when I play my kit in that small room sh*t falls off the shelves. So I feel that my question is valid and may be beneficial to someone else in my situation. thanks.

Well, first of all I completely understand your distrust. I accept it fully and encourage you to do what is right for you. I have a 12 month old girl at home as well and she is always welcome in my studio by the way. Having said this, I think you are trading one risk for another, more serious risk. Here is the MSDS for PVA adhesives:

http://www.wilsonart.com/productlib/...s/00017261.pdf

Here are some important excerpts:

"This product may contain small amounts of vinyl acetate, vapors of which have been shown to cause tumors in the respiratory tract of laboratory animals. There is no evidence that is has caused cancer in humans."

"A component of this product has been tested for potential reproductive and teratogenic effects. When administered orally to rats and mice at doses which produced toxic effects in the mother, tissue and skeletal malformations were noted. However, no effects were seen in the rabbits treated with this
compound."

"This product contains a chemical that is a suspected endocrine disrupter. Endocrine/hormone disrupters are external agents that interfere in some way with the role of natural hormones in the body. While a variety of chemicals have been found to cause endocrine disruption in laboratory animals, adverse effects in humans have not not been established. (US EPA Special Report on Endocrine
Disruption, February 1997.)"

"Vinyl acetate is metabolized to acetaldehyde, which has an IARC 2B (possibly carcinogenic to humans) classification, it has also been listed in Category 2B.


Now, for me I'd be much more worried about putting this stuff in my environment than I would be about the mineral wool. That's just me. This is part of what I mean my keeping perspective.

I can't help but wonder if this misunderstanding is coming from peoples association of insulating materials and asbestos. I'm not say you are making this association, just a general question.

Again, I completely understand that people have different risk tolerances. Having said this, I think making educated decisions about risk is equally important. YMMV.


Best Regards,

Mike.

[yumdrum]

Originally Posted by mdsmith64

Well, first of all I completely understand your distrust. I accept it fully and encourage you to do what is right for you. I have a 12 month old girl at home as well and she is always welcome in my studio by the way. Having said this, I think you are trading one risk for another, more serious risk. Here is the MSDS for PVA adhesives:

http://www.wilsonart.com/productlib/...s/00017261.pdf

Here are some important excerpts:

"This product may contain small amounts of vinyl acetate, vapors of which have been shown to cause tumors in the respiratory tract of laboratory animals. There is no evidence that is has caused cancer in humans."

"A component of this product has been tested for potential reproductive and teratogenic effects. When administered orally to rats and mice at doses which produced toxic effects in the mother, tissue and skeletal malformations were noted. However, no effects were seen in the rabbits treated with this
compound."

"This product contains a chemical that is a suspected endocrine disrupter. Endocrine/hormone disrupters are external agents that interfere in some way with the role of natural hormones in the body. While a variety of chemicals have been found to cause endocrine disruption in laboratory animals, adverse effects in humans have not not been established. (US EPA Special Report on Endocrine
Disruption, February 1997.)"

"Vinyl acetate is metabolized to acetaldehyde, which has an IARC 2B (possibly carcinogenic to humans) classification, it has also been listed in Category 2B.


Now, for me I'd be much more worried about putting this stuff in my environment than I would be about the mineral wool. That's just me. This is part of what I mean my keeping perspective.

I can't help but wonder if this misunderstanding is coming from peoples association of insulating materials and asbestos. I'm not say you are making this association, just a general question.

Again, I completely understand that people have different risk tolerances. Having said this, I think making educated decisions about risk is equally important. YMMV.


Best Regards,

Mike.

Mike,
Thanks again for the info. However I'm sure that the information provided on this material data sheet is for the actual vapors from application, not after drying.

Just like paint and all household cleaners and adhesives vapors are inteed toxic. After drying is a different story altogether. Just don't lick them and you should be okay.
Thanks.

[yumdrum]

Originally Posted by supaheef

Rockwool, semi-rigid fibreglass, whatever. Won't kill you, won't hurt you. May make your studio smell for the first few days (mine did!) but that goes away pretty quickly.

If you are worried still, cover the insulation in a light plastic (like white garbage bags) in a single thickness. It won't affect any of the frequencies that you are most likely trying to treat (like, everything under 2k), and as an added benefit it will reflect a little bit of the ultra highs (like 5k+) back into the room, and keep things from sounding totally dead. My first traps were four-inch fibreglass, covered in a nice thick Egyptian cotton. In some cases, they were a little too dead. My next traps, which I will build in the next few weeks with a full photo journal, will be six-inch thick, with one side covered in plastic, the other not. This gives me the choice of tone to suit the application. I will be making gobo-style traps, that will move around my studio as needed.

Anyone walk behind a car while the engine was running today? THERE is your cancer risk. Oh yeah, you may want to stop sitting on the mocrowave too.

heath.

Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Much appreciated!

[beranie]

Originally Posted by yumdrum

Just don't lick them and you should be okay.
Thanks.

hmmmmmmmm

(insert homer voice here)

[shangoe]

dear slutz,


i was in the same situation a few month ago and it took a long term to find the right stuff. in the end ther was 2 products:

-flaxfibre, smells a litle like straw, density is 30kg m3
-cellulose, its more dusty, but no prob with good fabric 70kg m3

i choose the cellulose slap, because of the very good tecnical specs.

product site is here, the stuff is called FlexCL:

http://www.homatherm.com

all the natural materials use borax for fire-prevention its toxic, but only when inhale the dust. you have to wear a mask. but its not outgasing anything formaldehyd like rockwool ore glassfibre. when its packed in fabric its all fine. there is a test in german magazine ökotest and it seems that everything is best with this stuff.

the performance is great, looks like it hase the same specs like this 703. 70kg mass on one m3 makes it very fine to build a vocalbooth i did. you can see the absorber i build in this thread:

my insprirations for DIY basstrap builders

[beranie]

thx shangoe. beautiful traps! mine will look more cheap and trashy. I will post some pics after the weekend.
thanks also for the material tip, but the thing is: i already have the wool here, so it´s too late for me. but if i will build some more in the future (i need the ones now to be build very quick because we will be recording the next weeks!) I think they should look more like yours. and the flexlc stuff looks really perfect, sonically!
i remember a thread where someone recommended this:
http://www.thermohanf.de/
health wise that looks great too.
so maybe the flexcl and hemp materials are suited best for the ones who still have worries about their and their environments health.