I like Dry Vocals, but I still need a little...

[Dynodawg]

I really like the dry vocal sound on most of my tracks, but I have a few songs with really exposed vocals that I'm having trouble finding the right dash of something to add. I run close mic L47Mp in a live room>V76>1176.

I've tried just a very small smidge of ambiance, room, plate, or delay from my KSP8 but I'm still not finding what it needs. The only thing that has gotten me closer is to copy the track, pan hard L/R and EQ each side slightly different. That gives it more dimension and life.

So what are you guys adding to a "percieved" dry Vox?

Thanks,
Dyno

[e-cue]

Using a Desper Spatializer on the returns of the AMBIENCE setting in the AMS-RMX, or the STEREO ROOM setting in the 2016 ducked in the mix works pretty good for me.

[entropy]

Chorus.....Dimension D..... Symophonic......ADT (dmx1580).....early reflections

[Screws]

If I have some tracks left over from comping, I usually paste one together to match as close as possible to the phrasing of the lead. Then Autotune, LPF (down to sometimes as low as 1khz) and mix well behind the lead -- no highs, no upper mids and barely audible. I call it the "Ghost Double".

I find I have to be careful when I Autotune the ghost so as not to get any robot crap, and so there are still some pitch differences to the lead. If the lead is heavily Autotuned, I use almost none on the ghost.

Real doubling almost always sounds better to me than effects, but if there are no tracks left to work with, I mix in a smidge of delay (20 - 40 ms)
along with a tiny bit of M3000 "Vocal Doubler" patch. Somtimes I use the old SPX900 type pitch shift up 10 cents on left and down 8 cents on right.

[blackcatdigi]

You've got to experiment and find out what is going to work best for that particular track.

A few more things to try when 'hiding' FX:

Chorus (in on the chorus) can really lift the vox.

With verb, sometimes the ERs get in the way and muddy it up. Take them out and try longer predelays.

Delays timed to the bpm of the track (usually closest to 100 ms settings works best) can thicken without adding too much obvious effect. Push it up until it's barely audible, then pull it back a smidge. Then take it out... If you can perceive a difference, it's working.

Try adding some verb to just the delay's return. It's dry but it's wet. It's dry but it's wet. It's dry but it's wet...

Pitch shift the lead vox L-up and R-down 5-10% mixed hard left and right under the lead.

There's millions more of 'em... See what works for you. Then come back and share!

[7rojo7]

Keep your vocal mic setup or recall it and put a speaker in the room somewhere, or if you like stereo vocals put up 2 vocal mics. move it all around untill it sounds good. If you need a little pitch change put something on it on the speaker side, I prefer sample and hold or square waves to sine waves for my pitch modulation and never stray more than 2 or 3 cents, with that and a little delay you can get a pretty convincing thickener. you can use 2 speakers if you want, mics in x/y or Blumlein, 1 speaker 2 mics in an A/B omni spaced pair . The only problem is that it takes a little noodling around to find the right mix. Small speakers work fine and I recommend that they're not too loud, it's the room you want, not the speakers. mic close to the speaker less verb.
the most convincing reverbs for me have always been live chambers, everytime I investigate a sound I really like it ends up being one.

[jdier]

Do a google search on "Exciting Compressor" The first hit is a pretty interesting article. If you use that technique but bring the compressed track even less than described, you can get a nice sound.

Jim

[natpub]

cool little article jim, thanks

[Bob Olhsson]

The Motown "exciting compressor" is really just parallel compression with the compressed channel eq'd. It cleaned up a Fairchild 670's act a great deal although Lawrence Horn's use of a noise gate in addition didn't make the story. After we got LA-2as and 1176s, we started leaving off the HF eq. on the compressed channel.

[drundall]

I used to use the harmonizer from an SPX90 or H3000 and
roll off the high end so it sounds darker and thicker. Get the
+-fine pitch as much as you can stand and keep the delay
short just before it gets real "slappy". The instruments will
eat up a lot of it, especially guitars. If done right it'll seem dry
but give you a thicker, stereo spread vocal.

[lowswing]

eventide machines do magic on vocals, send the vocal through aux to h3000 and mix the return back very low (and eq to taste)with the original voc. it sounds to me always very 3D and spacy without loosing clarity like often happened with most reverbs

[faeflora]

boinng!





great thread!

[theom]

Yup, eventide harmonizer is what might make your day.

multi pitch shift, 3 or 4 cents up on one side and down on the other, and modulate the shift a little, I eq the send killing anything under 200Hz and over 5Khz.

Then bring it in till you hear it , then back off a few dB.

a band passed 1/8th note slap is nice too.

[BlueRadio]

I would highly recommend any reverb with a HF roll-off. If your reverb doesn't have a roll-off, just drop an EQ with a lowpass filter on the send channel. It will warm/blend the track with the music, without all of the cheesy reverb artifacts. Short decay time, with pre-delay to taste.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by BlueRadio

I would highly recommend any reverb with a HF roll-off. If your reverb doesn't have a roll-off, just drop an EQ with a lowpass filter on the send channel. It will warm/blend the track with the music, without all of the cheesy reverb artifacts. Short decay time, with pre-delay to taste.

And you my friend are now in the lead for the "Oldest Thread Dug Up From The Past" award so far this year.....

Golden oldie here, cool. I remember this thread from back then, maybe we can get some new ideas on the topic.

[DirkB]

For a dry vocalsound: little bits of a couple of FX.
Bit of mono delay, bit of room, bit of chorus/flange. Just enough to make things sit and move the vocal back in depth a touch.

Greetings,
Dirk

[Jack Ruston]

I quite often just use echoboy 15ips delay tweaking it for the track and mixing very low. It adds dimension and ambience without you really noticing.

J

[blackcatdigi]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

And you my friend are now in the lead for the "Oldest Thread Dug Up From The Past" award so far this year.....

Golden oldie here, cool. I remember this thread from back then, maybe we can get some new ideas on the topic.

Wow!

4 years, 1 month almost to the day. This stuff lives forever!

There are probably forum members who weren't even born, yet...

(kidding, obviously)

[juicylime]

There's some good info here too: http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=41662

[vernier]

Seems the KSP8 should be able to add a dash of something that is usable. Maybe pre-delay with short plate.

[picksail]

..and people think that I'm nuts for using compressed and gated verbs on lead vocals.

[studjo]

Stewart I think that's for totally other reasons

I love the H3000 for thickening.


Jo

[mikey]

try a reverb with the predelay setting

[picksail]

Originally Posted by studjo

Stewart I think that's for totally other reasons

I love the H3000 for thickening.


Jo

Of course, I use a lot of short delays and pitch-shifting, but occasionally I will employ the 'reverb'.

[mikey]

how about recording two tracks and panning them like the beatles did

[bogeyeater]

a lo fi option:

ibanez ad9 - any bucket brigade chip delay laid underneath

[juicylime]

+1 on rolling off the highs from the verb. I also find that some verbs kind of swell up at some frequencies, it can be subtle but it's there. Finding that frequency and rolling it back a few db with a narrow Q leaves the reverb in place but with more space. Although for a big but dry sound I have decimated reverbs with EQ pulling out nearly anything of any body or that takes the ear. I started doing this while chasing Bono-esque sounds, I find it can give a panoramic feel without any of that "hi I'm the reverb and I like to be noticed" effect.

[jamieboss1]

One of my favorite tricks is to use a short delay (around an 8th note give or take) and mix it to be barely audible. Then send the delay return to a 480 A Plate.
Usually a great starting point!

[joeq]

another thing worth trying is ghosting the lead vocal melody with a spacey keyboard sound.

The delay and decay of the keyboard will give the impression of reverb, but will not contain any actual vocal sound.

[luctellier]

+1 Eventide Harmonizer Micropitchshift Preset (18ms/Left, 24ms/Right, +9/Left, -9/Right)