On the mixing of Seal's "Killer","Prayer for the Dying", "Don't Cry"

[thethrillfactor]

and "Lost my Faith"...


From Steve Macmillan himself.

Hey fellas i know in a couple of threads we've been discussing creative and unsual uses of reverbs and delays for a broader sonic landscape in a mix. So for some ideas i decided to seek out some advice from one of the best vocal mix engineers around Steve Macmillan.

I put Steve Mac on a small list of guys that i would want to mix a strong pop vocal production along with maybe Mick Guzauski and Dexter Simmons.

For guys who don't know who Steve Macmillan here is a little bio on him you can check out:
http://www.macmandigital.com/iweb/ma...scography.html

Basically he posts sometimes on the DUC and i thought i drop him a line and see if he could share any tidbits of what he remembers from his time mixing for Trevor Horn and Seal. As you guys know i consider Seal's records probably the highest forms of production & sonics and some of my personal favorites mixes were done by Steve Mac. This includes "The Killer", "Prayer for Dying", "Don't Cry" and "Lost my Faith". If you haven't heard these tracks get a pair of your favorite headphones and just sit back and be amazed at the complex productions and mixes that are needed to convey Trevor and Seal's visions. The reverb/effect tricks are awesome as well as the panning and clear and present sounds. And yes there is Seal's vocals as well.

Steve Mac took time out of his busy mix schedule to answer some of these questions and as always its appreciated.

Anyway here goes from Steve Mac himself...

The first questions i asked were could he shed some light on the process of working with Trevor Horn and Seal?

Such as was "Prayer for the Dying" mixed on a Focusrite console or a Euphonix? Same for "Killer"?

Also what effects/compressors were used and were they your choices or Trevors?

How many tracks per song are we talking about? Did you have to submix things down as you went?

Were any of the songs you did for Trevor in general mixed all in Pro Tools?

These were his answers...



The mix of the Killer I did was the album mix on the first Seal
Album. There had already been an Adamski(?) dance mix that had been
a club hit even before Crazy came out. Seal was either writer or co-
writer and vocalist. I think that was how Seal got signed. In lots
of ways I actually prefer that version. It wasn't as big sounding
but it had a very cool vibe. My Killer mix was done on a 4000 E
series SSL at Sarm studio 3 in London. This was the smallest and
best sounding room at Sarm. It was recorded on twin Sony 3324
digital mulitracks (44.1k @ 16 bits) and mixed down to 1/2" analog
tape. We would have used all of the common outboard at the time.
EMT 140 plates, AMS RMX16 & Lexicon 480L reverb, H3000 harmonizers.
I can't remember, but at the time I used a lot of La2a's for vocal
compression. I remember there was a nice Fairchild 670 in that
room. The outboard mixing gear would have been all my choices, but
Trevor wanted to mix in that room (which was fine by me). We wanted
a very sparse sounding record. Minimal and heavy on the bottom. We
were using Digidesign Sound Designer II to fly bits around and do
surgical waveform editing, it was pretty cutting edge at the time.
ProTools v1 was brand new and we hadn't started using it yet, but a
couple of the songs were demo'd in Studio Vision with vocals and
guitar recorded on audio tracks. I can remember learning the hard
way about digital sync. The mix took a couple of days. I would work
alone for a day or so, and then Trevor & Seal would sit and make
changes until we were all happy.

Prayer for the Dying was for the 2nd album. We had been using
ProTools heavily for about a year at that point and I think we were
at version 2 with the first generation hardware. So the biggest
systems we had were 16 tracks. More so than any other track on the
album, Prayer for the Dying was a little messy. It was recorded on a
least a dozen 3324 (might have been 3348) slave reels and there were
many different directions and half realized ideas. I spent as much
as a week, premixing tracks and comping parts together. This was the
first project I did where I sat for days editing in ProTools, putting
tracks together and flying them back to the 3324. Not that Seal
needed it, but we used to fly syllables out of ProTools and into
Sound Designer for static pitch correction (agaist an ocsillator) and
then edit them back into the main track. We had a prototype Yamaha
digital console as a multitrack router between the ProTools AES and
the SDIF2 of the Sony tape machines. I did a two or three day mix on
the Euphonix console at Sarm 4, where we worked out the basic form of
the song. This was the same board I mixed all of my other mixes on
the 2nd album including "Don't Cry". I think it had to be some of
the first pop mixing done on a Euphonix console, and I love the sound
and the full automation. A couple of weeks later I was working with
Trevor at Ocean Way studio A (before Jack Puig took the room over).
We were working on something completely different and he suggested
that we just throw up Prayer for the Dying and try a quick mix.
Since I knew it so well, we got the final album mix in about eight
hours on the Focusrite. We didn't have all of the send and pan
automation that the Euphonix mix had, but I think it was the best mix.

I then proceded to ask specific things on some of the songs like:

1) On "Killer"(which i like your version better than the Adamski/Spike Stent version by the way) how did you create all of the panning delays and effects(flanging) to work if you were mixing on a 4000E? Did you do this by hand? Some of the effect choices when you listen on headphones are amazing. And where they your creative choices or Trevor Horns or a little of both?

2) On "Prayer for the Dying" was it a Cello room used on the snare? Its a famous snare reverb sound and lots of guys i know have tried to recreate it. Big and fat but doesn't take up too much space which for the elaborate orchestration is necessary.

3) Where you using a lot of mixbuss compression back then or lots of compression in your mixes in general? I ask because the mixes are so present and in your face but not in the tiring way you hear on a alot of records now.

4) And lastly what was it like working with Trevor Horn and Seal in those times? Did you know at the time these records would become classics? You hear the stories and such but you really hear the results. I know Trevor Horn has a reputation as being a perfectionist type of person but sometimes you have to be to get the results you desire.

And again he was kind enough to respond with this:

1. On the Killer, I would have come up with all of the effects choices. Trevor's input would have been more on the level of "We need something to happen here", and "Try something different, I don't like what going on in this section". For panning fx on the SSL, what I would often do is set up a couple of automated faders panned left and right, and then buss stuff to both of them. Then by automating the left & right levels, stuff would pan accordingly. I would return delays thru auto panners, etc.

2. Prayer for the Dying snare reverb was most likely the AMS RMX16 Ambience with some pre-delay, combined with my snare settings on the Roland SRV2000. I used to layer reverb a lot more than I do now. The Ocean Way A chamber is a bit too long for snare reverb.

3. I use the SSL Quad compressor when I work on SSL consoles, and usually the Neve 33609 when I'm not. This was gentle compression and not the kind of limiting that we often see today. We didn't chase level as hard, but instead it was about signal to noise on your final mix tape. For much of the presence, credit has to be given to the quality of Seal's voice. He has that perfect blend of body and presence to his voice and that influences everything around it.

4. I had been working with Bernard Edwards for a couple of years on various Rod Stewart projects. We were working on some new material for Rod's Storyteller greatest hits package. Trevor showed up in Los Angeles for the first time, with the song Downtown Train for the album. I was a huge fan, and I was very happy when he asked me to have a go at mixing it. He had his engineers in London mix it again, and he ended up preferring my mix. It was a big hit for Rod. Shortly after that I heard from Trevor, who told me that he had this new artist who sounded like Sam Cooke and that he would be recording some of it in Los Angeles. We did some basic tracking and it was the first time I met keyboardist Jamie Muhoberac who was absolutely brilliant and a big part of the Seal sound. Seal was amazing, always sounded great and was effortless to record. On that first album I remember that he was himself very taken by the recording process and really wide eyed and happy to be there. Where by the second album he was much more of the seasoned artist, smooth urbanite, and world traveler that he is today. He was always a pleasure to work with, amazing voice, and unique songwriter. Trevor impressed me with his ability to not stop working at something until it was great. He has a playful approach, and he isn't afraid to take a song in several directions until finding the perfect framework for it. Trevor is a master at gently pushing people to do their very best work.

Its great hearing from someone that was there in the trenches and who contributed so much to these records.

I hope these nuggets help some.

[mykla]

thank you thrill

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Trevor impressed me with his ability to not stop working at something until it was great. He has a playful approach, and he isn't afraid to take a song in several directions until finding the perfect framework for it. Trevor is a master at gently pushing people to do their very best work.

Thanks for posting that. A very interesting read.
I've worked with Trev a couple of times myself.
I was amazed at how relaxed the whole set up was. i was amazed at the amount of untweaked stock sounds he used (Synths and reverb fx etc) and amazed at how much stuff he put to tape, most of which would most likely never get used.
Horn surrounded himself with stellar, creative individuals.
All in all, I found the experience to be very creative and exciting indeed.
Trevor is one of the all time greats in my book. Such a shame what's happened in his personal life though.

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by chrisso

........(snip)
Trevor is one of the all time greats in my book. Such a shame what's happened in his personal life though.

Yes - Trevor is a very cool and talented dude. Met him a few times.

I hadn't heard about anything bad in his personal life..... ?

[cajonezzz]

Wow- what a treat.

That second Seal record was in heavy rotation for a year on my walkman rig- along with Rage against the machine.

The production and mixes on that record sucked me in. As a headphone listening album, I can't think of much better.

I think the next record " Human Being " was WAY underrated as well- the album sounds a bit "incomplete" comparatively, from a song writing stand point- almost as if it was tunes that were originally destined for "Seal" but got cut. It's probably in some ways even more interesting ( to me) Sonically, just as inviting.

I worked with an engineer that assisted __Steven Fitzmaurice, who as far as i know, mixed SOME of Seal and perhaps all of Human Being. this assistant had nabbed one of the few copies of the album that was shelved ( the one before the current one) and it was BRILLIANT. Song writing /production / mixes etc.... kinda a cross between Seal II and Human.


Thrill- do you know a track by track listing of the players on the Seal album? I've seen players listed, but I don't know who's on what.

thanks for putting this up.thumbsup

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by mixerguy

I hadn't heard about anything bad in his personal life..... ?

As far as I know, his wife and manager Jill Sinclair is still in a coma, having been accidently shot in the neck with an air gun by her son last June.
A tragic accident.

[Empty Planet]

Really nice of you, Thrill. Thank you.

[djui5]

wow, nice Thrill!

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by chrisso

As far as I know, his wife and manager Jill Sinclair is still in a coma, having been accidently shot in the neck with an air gun by her son last June.
A tragic accident.

oh man, that is really terrible.

yuck.

i feel badly for them all. how awful.

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

awesome work Thrill!

[u b k]

that was a fantastic little read, thanks for making that happen.

i'm also a huge fan of seal's production. his first record is my favorite in terms of songs, and although sonically it's a little closer to the 80's than my personal ideal, it is still gorgeous by any standard and unbelievably clear and deep in its space.

i love the sonics of the 3rd record, the dark soft tone is one of my favorites ever. i just wish it had 3 or 4 more db on the transients, the mastering/limiting is a little too over the top for me and that era of releases marked the beginning of the end of dynamics as i knew and loved them.

but good lord, the mastery of the arrangements, all the millions of odd little twists and ear candy and extra throwaway chords and measures... brilliant.

i for one am very glad to be reading about another mixer taking 3 days to do his thing, that's my zone as well. something about the way the tweaks come together on that third day, things get into some kind of alien zone and the world behind the speakers opens up, spaces get wider and the ambience comes alive.

thanks again thrill, very inspiring.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[True North]

Those first two albums are magic to me on almost every level. I never really got into his stuff after the first two, I think I might have to go back and give them a chance. Trevor Horn's production was such an integral part of the 'Seal sound'. I beleive they tried to record the second album without Trevor for fear that Seals sounds would be so closely connected to Trevor's production style.

Does anyone remember this? From what I vaguely remember, they stopped part way through the recording of the second album and chose to work with Trevor again.

I also found it very interesting that the first Album was recorded at 44.1/16. You won't hear too many people complaining about the sonic quality fo that first record.

Thanks for posting that Thrill

[drBill]

Thanks Thrill! Quite a wonderful look into what, IMO, are several of the best examples of modern production technique and songwriting available. I was floored to hear about what was done on those ancient PT systems. For some reason, I just didn't think it's been that long. Another testimony to the staying power of all those albums. Thanks again!

[RoundBadge]

Thrill..you are the King!..
thanksthumbsup thumbsup

[thethrillfactor]

thumbsup to everyone.

By the way i sent Steve M a link to this and the reverb thread so if he wanted to monitor it or if he wanted to add anything at his own choosing he could do so.

[bcgood]

That's funny, after all of this time I never realized that Killer was Seal. The first time I really remember hearing that song was in Budapest, Hungary in June of 1992. At the time I thought it was George Michael for some strange reason. That is a cool song. Having just downloaded it on iTunes and after listening to the whole song on my headphones it's interesting. I would have to say that it sounds pretty dated, doesn't hold up to a lot of other stuff done in the same vein. If you want to hear a truly innovative album that was not only way ahead of its time but still sounds great today I highly recommend A Broken Frame by Depeche Mode circa 1982.

bcgood

P.S. Check out this link if you have iTunes and would like to hear some short samples off of A Broken Frame.

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=204647541&s=143441

Some more info:

A Broken Frame Depeche Mode

Release Date: Oct 3, 2006
Original release year: 1982
Label: Rhino Records (USA)
Producer: Daniel Miller; Depeche Mode
Engineer: John Fryer; Eric Radcliffe
Stereo: Stereo

1. Leave In Silence
2. My Secret Garden
3. Monument
4. Nothing To Fear
5. See You
6. Satalite
7. The Meaning Of Love
8. Further Excerpts From: My Garden
9. A Photograph Of You
10. Shouldn't Have Done That
11. The Sun & The Rainfall


Depeche Mode: David Gahan (vocals); Martin Gore (vocals, guitar, keyboards, synthesizer); Andrew Fletcher (keyboards, synthesizer).

Recorded at Blackwing Studios, London, England.

Depeche Mode: Dave Gahan, Alan Wilder, Martin Gore, Andy Fletcher.

Recording information: 1982.

When pop mastermind/main songwriter Vince Clarke departed DM after the group's first album to form Yaz with Alison Moyet, it seemed like the end for the boys from Basildon, but it was really a new beginning. Martin Gore stepped forward to fill Clarke's songwriting shoes, surprising the world by taking his predecessor's catchy electro-pop approach a step further.

Lighthearted delights like "A Photograph of You" and "The Meaning of Love" show Gore's mastery of breathlessly catchy popcraft and help cement the notion of early Depeche Mode as the Beach Boys of the New Romantic era. Elsewhere though, Gore ventures further afield, both lyrically and musically. "Shouldn't Have Done That" combines sociopolitical observations with uncoventional sound collage techniques a la (don't laugh) Simon & Garfunkel's "Save the Life of My Child." "Monument" and "Satellite" suggest a darker undercurrent that would soon rise to the fore of the group's sound.

© Muze/MTS Inc.

[TLS]

Just to add something. I emailed Steve out of the blue asking him a couple of questions and was surprised to receive such a detailed and extremely helpful answer.

A huge for taking the time to respond to someone he didn't know - nice guy all round!

Thanks Steve

[u b k]

Originally Posted by True North

I beleive they tried to record the second album without Trevor for fear that Seals sounds would be so closely connected to Trevor's production style.

my understanding is that this was true of the third record, not the second. seal tried several producers, none of them could realize the vision that he had, and in the end he came back to trevor.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[tomdarude]

WOW THX A TON THRILL !!! what a great read

this album is soooo special for me..... there was a time
I had a girlfriend (for around 5 months) which was probably
the most crazy, complicated, exciting and enlightning
relationship of my life...and we spent A LOT of that time
in my bed ......and during this time there was a 85% chance
that we were listening to SEAL -"SEAL", because we both loved
that album or were to lazy or to "busy" to reach the CD-player

so I just startet the album in iTunes and with the first line of "Bring it on"
.....jeeezzz gooosebumps allover...total flashback ...scary


this album is SO special !!






PS: If you have a girlfriend -> go get this album

[zarembo]

Thanks Thrillfactor!

what a treat!!!

(said smiling as he turns up Seal)

[TanTan]

thanks for the effort Thrill , a great read thumbsup

[not_so_new]

Yep... that was a kick a%% post. Interesting that Steve said " I used to layer reverb a lot more than I do now." I wounder if that is because verbs are better now or because he is just using less?

Wish we could get him to do a guest mod thing, seems like a good guy with lots of very cool info.

[marcan]

I think Seal tried to work with Steve Lillywhite. Actually Seal was irritaded by the invasive Trevor's production. He was looking for something more acoustic. Anyway he came back with Trevor.

[Steve MacMillan]

Originally Posted by crazycharlie

Hey what is seal's vocal mic...Sounds like a c800g to me..no?

All of Seal's vocals on the first album were recorded with (believe it or not) a B&K 4011, from the second album on he has always used a U67 as far as I know.

STeve

[Steve MacMillan]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

" I used to layer reverb a lot more than I do now." I wounder if that is because verbs are better now or because he is just using less?

Mostly because I'm using way less reverb. Still, layering reverb is a great way to make several so so reverbs sound like a million bucks. I think its best to have only one in the layer do the early reflections.

STeve

[not_so_new]

One other thing that I think is interesting that has slid a little under the radar.

Steve Mac said....

It was recorded on twin Sony 3324 digital mulitracks

So an album that many (myself included) hold up as one of the the most open / deep / lush and best sounding productions of all time was recorded on digital? For the record 3324 machines and version 1 ProTools hardware is really not what I would call "high end" digital in today's world either.

As Slippy would say.... Hohoho



Kind of makes a strong case for "the ears not the gear" doesn't it?

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Steve MacMillan

Mostly because I'm using way less reverb. Still, layering reverb is a great way to make several so so reverbs sound like a million bucks. I think its best to have only one in the layer do the early reflections.

STeve

WOW... Hi Steve.

I was just posting above and came back to see your posts.

VERY VERY nice to see you here. Thanks for the replies! Any more stories for us?

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Steve MacMillan

Mostly because I'm using way less reverb. Still, layering reverb is a great way to make several so so reverbs sound like a million bucks. I think its best to have only one in the layer do the early reflections.

STeve

Hi again Steve, one more thing.

We just had a great thread a few weeks back on reverb and I know that there was a ton of interest around here and that your productions came up a few times.

So what reverbs are you using now? Have you had any luck with verbs in the box? Convolution stuff or emulations or are you using all stand alone?

Thanks again man!

[Steve MacMillan]

For the record 3324 machines and version 1 ProTools hardware is really not what I would call "high end" digital in today's world either.

That's what I thought at the time as well, especially coming from 80s Ocean Way. I definitely had my reservations about 3324s and 16bit v1 ProTools. I remember thinking that the Sony was a little brittle. But Trevor was and had been really committed to working digital. Trevor liked that you could arrange tunes and copy whole sections without losing quality and he routinely comped multiple vocal comps together, etc. It was a working style that would have been impossible on analog tape, and so it was a way of keeping quality in spite of massive amounts of manipulation. We would have multiple versions with slaves of every song and some masters were 20 D to Ds down from the original tracking date. The Sony SDIF2 worked very well and the twentieth transfer sounded as good as the original (which was not true with AES). Plus you could hardly find fault in a system that had produced "Slave to the Rhythm". Most of what we used ProTools for was editing tracks that we would transfer digitally in and out of it. So the poor PT v1 dacs were not really a problem. By the time the 3348 came out, the dacs and filters were sounding much smoother and I was really digging it. Working with Trevor in the early 90s got me into digital and ProTools a few years earlier than I might have, and I've always felt it gave me a head start.

STeve

[djui5]

Originally Posted by Steve MacMillan

All of Seal's vocals on the first album were recorded with (believe it or not) a B&K 4011,
STeve

Nice.