Couple beginners questions on doing my own cabling

[Benmrx]

OK, so yesturday I finally got the area cleared out that is suppose to become the "tech room". Although it's basically just gonna be an area where I can do some soldering. My first big project (after I fix all my broken cables), is to completely re-do the tie lines coming from the tracking room into the control room.

I'm alright with a soldering iron, and have fixed plenty of cables, but I've never wired an Elco, or DB25 connector.

Anyone know of an online "introduction to wiring elco or Dsub connectors" site?

I just need really basic info, like.......on a DB25 connector.....is that for 8 balanced channels? With each channel taking up 3 connectors?

Is there any reason to pick solder pins over crimp pins when doing an Elco connector?

Is there anything wrong with using the same snake for headphones and mics? I.E., using an 8 channel snake, and using 6 of those channels for mics, and 2 for headphones? I could swear that I've read it's best to keep any amplified signals (like headphone returns) seperate from unamplified signals (like outputs from microphones)......then again, I've read some pretty whacky shit.

Also, here's a quick and dirty mock-up of my plan. I'd love some suggestions.


BTW, happy T-day.

[Benmrx]

Junction Box

[Paul Babiak]

There's a good tutorial here for Elco/Edac wiring:

http://www.prosoundweb.com/live/labbest/elco/elco.shtml

There is a never-ending discussion on the prosound web regarding soldering versus crimping Elco's. The general consensus is crimping is better, as solder tends to wick up the conductor, and create a stress point in the wire. Having said that, I use the solder type, because I was given hundreds, and I've not had a problem. The crimping tool is a little pricey, but it does cut down labor time, a trade-off as always. For either method, you will need an extraction tool, keep an eye on ebay.

It is recommended, however, that when using the solder type, each solder joint be individually insulated with heat-shrink tubing, as there is a strong possibility of shorts in the connector shell.

For Elco wiring standards, check out the Multi-Pin Pinout Tech Sheet download at:

http://www.procosound.com/downloads.htm

If you decide to go with DB-25's, I recommend using the Tascam DA-88 pinout, it has become a de-facto standard, at least in post-production. And yes, it is used for 8 balanced lines.

No matter which way you decide to go, young eyes and good lighting are a huge help.

Paul

[Benmrx]

Awsome, and thanks for those links.

I have a feeling if I'll use the solder type pins for the Elco stuf. If there's a "never-ending debate", I would imagine either way is just fine, and I don't mind putting in the time.

[stevep]

I used the solder type with no troubles and i have maybe 60 or more in the studio

They go quick

as far as running headphone levels in the same multipair.... i wouldn't do it

You can run a separate multi par next to it with no problem


I'm not saying it wont work but i like to keep the headphone lines separate


When you go to solder your Dsubs make sure you use another Dsub connector plugged in to the one you are soldering ,,, It is a heat sink and if you get the plastic to hot the other connector will keep the pins from moving in the hot plastic,

I got all my Dsubs and Elcos from Gepco and they are great quality Dsubs,....( there are cheep ones)


.

[stevep]

Heres some Elkos going togeather

[stevep]

All done ready to insert all the pins !

[stevep]

Heres the Dsubs with XLR on the other end
The wire is Gepco 24 pair Blue its actually 26 pair

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by stevep

When you go to solder your Dsubs make sure you use another Dsub connector plugged in to the one you are soldering ,,, It is a heat sink and if you get the plastic to hot the other connector will keep the pins from moving in the hot plastic,

A very important tip. MAkes life a lot easier with DB25's.
Strong glasses, strong light and a Panavise also helps.

[stevep]

Yep and dont fill the pin with solder Like you would with a XLR

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Rick Sutton

A very important tip. MAkes life a lot easier with DB25's.
Strong glasses, strong light and a Panavise also helps.

Yea i needed a good vise..... i managed through it



.

[Paul Babiak]

There is good info here if you are having trouble figuring out which Edac/Elco part numbers mate with which.

http://www.audiogear.com/EdcELcoCart.html

I have no affiliation with this company.

Paul

[max cooper]

Elco or D-Sub, I always solder. Seems to be a better and more dependable connection.

Also, I find that if you're soldering up a big, heavy cable, a Panavise isn't much help as it'll just get pulled off the table.

For that I use a vacuum-vise.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by max cooper

Also, I find that if you're soldering up a big, heavy cable, a Panavise isn't much help as it'll just get pulled off the table.

Duct tape


Actually, a Panavise has mounting holes in its base and can also be bolted down.

[Benmrx]

Oh yeah, I'll definatly be getting a bench vise, one that can be bolted down.

Any other little gadgets/tools that help? You know...the kinds of things you never think about until your actually putting something together.

Besides:

Soldering Iron
Wire strippers
Digital Multimeter - w/a continuity setting
Bench Vise
Aligator Clips
Hook-up wire
Well ventilated room



Again, this is mainly just to get me started.

I'm gonna wait on any Elco tools, connectors, etc. for the moment, and just concentrate on getting my skills back, and fixing all my broken cables....or just stealing the ends off 'em to use for something else, and a bit of circuit bending as well.

I've been seriously thinking about taking an electronics/studio maintenance class next fall, or finding a good tech to apprentice.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by stevep

as far as running headphone levels in the same multipair.... i wouldn't do it

You can run a separate multi par next to it with no problem


I'm not saying it wont work but i like to keep the headphone lines separate

Alright....but what about using different snakes (multi-pair), but the same connector for both. I.E. using a DB25 connector, and using it for 6 Mic signals, and 2 Headphone returns.

Do you think there would be potential problems, considering the mic signals and headphone returns are on seperate snakes, but are sharing the same connector.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

Alright....but what about using different snakes (multi-pair), but the same connector for both. I.E. using a DB25 connector, and using it for 6 Mic signals, and 2 Headphone returns.

Do you think there would be potential problems, considering the mic signals and headphone returns are on seperate snakes, but are sharing the same connector.

I just would avoid it if at all possible. Keeping things seperated and clean pays off both in operation and later troubleshooting/modifications. The convenience that you may derive from that scheme now will most likely be a problem later. That's the way I look at it.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by Rick Sutton

I just would avoid it if at all possible. Keeping things seperated and clean pays off both in operation and later troubleshooting/modifications. The convenience that you may derive from that scheme now will most likely be a problem later. That's the way I look at it.

Makes sense to me. Sometimes I forget that the whole point of spending the time to do this is to not cut any corners, and do it as right as I can. Thanks again for the tip!