So we had our reverb class. How about delay?

[Blast9]

How 'bout short tape echo on vocals, mono right behind the lead vocal, lo-passed and slightly overdriven. Kinda thickens it up in a nice way.

Or how bout a short single repeat on a vocal, snare or gtr, panned to one side --- Gives a nice old skool slap-back vibe.

Other tricks:

Send a copy of say doubled ld vocal, pan original hard left, send very short delayed version to the other side, and put a slow light sweeping flange that

(All standard tricks)

(Obviously check stereo short delays in mono re phase).

[frugalpole]

a little off-topic... but....

what is weird to me is that i found the reverb thing very helpful.

but, i feel like i instinctively know my way around delay. not suggesting a discussion wouldn't be helpful, just find it odd how i interact w/ delay/reverb differently. and didn't notice til just now reading this thread. i know just enough to enough to tweak to my taste w/ delay, but verb. heck... post verb thread, i'm still a bit confounded.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by frugalpole

a little off-topic... but....

what is weird to me is that i found the reverb thing very helpful.

but, i feel like i instinctively know my way around delay. not suggesting a discussion wouldn't be helpful, just find it odd how i interact w/ delay/reverb differently. and didn't notice til just now reading this thread. i know just enough to enough to tweak to my taste w/ delay, but verb. heck... post verb thread, i'm still a bit confounded.

I thought I knew what to use delay for until I heard everybody talking in the reverb thread about how they use delay a lot more, and the reverb you hear could possibly be delay. And yadda yadda. That's why I started this thread. Because apparently I don't know anything about delay!

[Arsene]

I use delay more often for reverb on sources that need to be placed in a space, but also need to be clear and not clouded - lead voices, (lead) guitars, etc.

When used sparingly, especially on lead vocals and guitar, it gives ace results.

Suppose we have a pretty dense rock/pop mix. Now we don't want to drown the lead vox in reverb but we don't want it to be dry either, cause the mix is full and dense and we want it to be distant (not too intimate) and yet still punchy and in yer face...

Even though it CAN be done with just reverb, I find it easier (and faster working) to set up a medium to short reverb and a delay for the voice alone.
Why the short reverb? I usually record the voice pretty dry, all baffled up, virtually no room sound (becasue my room sucks). With just a little bit of that short reverb (I said a little!!) I can get the "room" impression. Add to that a rythmic delay of say, 1/4, (stereo works great!) with feedback set very low (between 0 and 10 %) - we don't want it to bounce around forever!

Now, as with everything, don't overdo it. A nice trick I learned from a great producer: check the sound in the full mix. Add reverb/delay to taste, and then back it off just a little. You shouldn't be able to actively hear it (unless that's the effect you're going for) but you should miss it when it's gone - you should miss the illusion of "space".

So now we've got a smooth, reverby sounding voice which doesn't cloud the rest of the mix (reverb can get muddy fast).

Oh and always remember that if you're going to simulate authentic reverberation with your delay, cut off lows as well as highs. The highs are important especially for vox, otherwise the delayed ignal can clash with the original, dry one, if it shares frequencies. Cut off the highs to taste and listen how it improves the sound!

You'll probably instantly love the delay on the vox - especially on sustained notes.. it really adds body and fullness in a way reverb (almost) never could!

edit // Everything above is, of course, IMO, but I didn't make it up, the wisdom was passed along to me by some higher order of mixers...

[robot gigante]

One good delay tip I can give is to do rides with your delay sends. That keeps it from stepping on too many things, and it makes for a good effect.

One standard trick that you hear a lot in pop/dance productions is to keep a vocal dry throughout a phrase or word and then ride the send up so the delay you hear is just on the last syllable.

I'd like to hear about the use of modulated delays- been using more of those lately. What are some good tricks with modulating delays?

[marcan]

Delay is usefull for create image, space and depth in a more controled way and without muddying like a verb.
In order to seperate it from the original sound, a delay will ask for more treatments: paning, eq, distortion, phaser, pitch ... or reverb
In this laste case, a light reverb with a good predelay can replace a delay. Actually delay and reverbs are two way to repeat a sound.
A short delay with a good feedback sounds like a verb and a short verb with a long delay sounds like a delay...

For more obvious delay, I like to create a feedback loop with a delay inside my daw, insert fx in the loop and modify the parameter of the fx during the repetition (eq, disto, pitch,...). Very interesting. If you duck (keyed on the voice) the sound inside the loop after the delay you can have the delay just on the last word

[six_wax]

I've gotten in the habit of setting up a stereo slap delay on a pannable aux --like tape slap was used. Depending on where you pan the send and how much you feed it, you can get a variety of effects, from just a gentle "peeling off the speakers" to stereo-balancing delays, to short-room'ish effects. Saves on DSP & lends some subtle cohesiveness to use the same effect on multiple elements...

Would love to hear about how people use delays to thicken guitars. I don't think I've really acheived the effect that makes this so popular in heavier music...

[Tibbon]

Dont' forget Haas effect stuff (where the ear will generally hear something as panned if it hits one ear first even if the levels are the same otherwise). Very short delays of course.

Of course delay also is the basis for all sorts of other time-based effects, including being an impoirtant part of good reverbs, and the basis for flange/chorus/phaser effects.

One other thing to keep in mind with time-based effects is that bit/sample rates don't seem to matter as much as they do for other things. Don't trash on a delay because of low sample/bit rates, as it can still rock the house.

I had the pleasure for a short while to own a huge (IMHO) stack time based effects. I had two AMS 1580-S's, a Quantec QRS, an MPX-1, two Eventide 910's, a Sony D-7 and a Line 6 DL-4. It was pretty educational to have all of those at my disposal.

However at the end of the day I needed other gear so I sold most of them asides from the MPX-1. It's not as lush or whatever as the 1580's, or as quirky as the 910's, but it works.

[Chris]

I'm bringing this back from the dead for a few more questions.

First off, recommendations for some good delay plugs.

Second, I want to use delay to fatten up some lead vox. How should I go about setting this up?

Also, what are you guys considering "short?" What about "long?"

[Led]

The UAD space echo is a good plugin. Karlette that Steinberg used to make is a good vst, it seems to sit well in a mix.
Fattening a lead relies a lot on modulation. A short delay, say 15-20 ms, no regen, and a bit of modulation on the delayed signal. Blend to taste.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Led

The UAD space echo is a good plugin. Karlette that Steinberg used to make is a good vst, it seems to sit well in a mix.
Fattening a lead relies a lot on modulation. A short delay, say 15-20 ms, no regen, and a bit of modulation on the delayed signal. Blend to taste.

Is modulation the same as feedback?

[mahasandi]

Modulation is the chorus effect. sometimes delays have this built -in.it can thicken

I have a question about guitar delays, or anything using short delays to create space.

do you realte it to your reverb pre-delay for the whole mix?

or do you stagger different instruments to create the pre-delay location

going into a verb with/without pre-delay?

I usually use different sends with different verbs with different pre-delays .

I'am guessing it amounts to the same thing but i guess i'll mess with it.

I just never was "into " delays for delay sake, like the effect but as a subtle thing its cool.

But I used to love those analog delay pedals i should get one again!

Thats a fun sound twisting the knobs WUTIiibboooooooRRRummmppp.

[andychamp]

Originally Posted by Chris

Second, I want to use delay to fatten up some lead vox. How should I go about setting this up?

A few tips that have worked for me:
- put a de-esser and an EQ before your delay (to set your delay's basic tone)
- put an EQ after your delay. Set it the opposite of/complementary to the EQ on your vocal channel (to make them blend better)
- start with delay times related to the song's tempo (i.e. 4th/16th/32nd, straight, dotted or triplets, whatever fits), BUT don't hesitate to make it a tad shorter or longer. The coolest effect is when the delays fall into the pocket of the singer's phrasing, and this doesn't have to be on the beat
- as has been said, riding/automating your delay send will also help.
I like it best when you don't notice the delay right away. But mute the send and something's missing. Almost like hearing the vocal booth's early reflections, but in a controlled way. Gives the vocals a sense of space.

[Jason Poulin]

I can't find the reverb thread...

sounds interesting.


Can someone please post a link? Thank you!!


Jason

[mahasandi]

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=92906

[Jason Poulin]

[grifops]

Originally Posted by Blast9

How 'bout short tape echo on vocals, mono right behind the lead vocal, lo-passed and slightly overdriven. Kinda thickens it up in a nice way.

Or how bout a short single repeat on a vocal, snare or gtr, panned to one side --- Gives a nice old skool slap-back vibe.

(Obviously check stereo short delays in mono re phase).

Same methods used here....