OK so Im thinking of opening a studio. How do you guys make them make money.

Lately I've been thinking of getting a commercial spot and opening the doors by the hour. I know the importance of treating the room (when I find a location,) and I know that I'm able to achieve a pretty good sound via the gear that I have (Protools HD 2 accel, Rosetta 800, emes mini owl/NS10s etc...)

My dillema is achieving a look that "justifies" what I have to charge per hour and How much I'd have to spend to make it appear worth the money to a potential client. (I know that I can get the quality mixes, but I have to have a look to the place that says "SPEND MONEY".)

Of course in Achieving a "spend money" look, I want to spend as little as possible.

What I'm getting at is that I kinda feel I'd have to spend for things that I wouldnt normally care about (argosy desk or custom desk, MAIN MONITORS, Protools control/console). When doing my own projects I always concentrated on adding gear that would make the sound better. Now, I need stuff that will make everything "LOOK" better. I'm comfortable working in ptools with my track ball. But I know the mentality of some clients will say "this is not worth me payig for'

What should I be looking to get?

I'm thinking a custom made desk with a pair of Yamaha 02Rs or maybe a control 24 or 16 channel pro control.

a pair of Tannoy DmT 215s

another HD accel card


I'm thinking,, what do I need to separate myself from the guy that has a 001 system who can't achieve the sound that I can, to make a client spend $55-$85 dollars an hour? Sadly if a client only sees me in a treated room with a computer, I'm afraid they won't be able to differentiate between me and the guy with the 001. (The rate is based on how much I'd have to charge to make money for myself (bills) and pay the lease on the location.)

Sadly I have to spend for the "look of the gear"

So I'm asking what do you guys charge and what gear do you have thats strictly for the "look" to the client?

Also what advice can you offer? (I will have security/guns on the premises I'm already considering that aspect. )

[Frost]

How do you end up with a million dollars in the studio industry...






















Start with 2 or 3 million.

Really, you have to do this because you love it. You will know if you can make money because you are already making money and could make more if you had more space. The studio game is not a if you build it they will come type of thing. People come to some of the worst places because they like the guy doing the work. Its about the guy doin the work first and foremost, then its about finding bread and butter clients so the bills get paid.

Frost

[danasti]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

Lately I've been thinking of getting a commercial spot and opening the doors by the hour.

Are your clients engineers?

Or are your clients musicians and producers?

Will you be the only engineer working there?

One control room? One/two ISO booth(s)? One "live" room?

A commercial recording facility, in my mind, means that it has a studio manager who is responsible for booking, all the daily chore coordination, answering phones, bookkeeping, etc... Maybe even a few people if you need someone working in sales, marketing and getting the word out. A commercial facility, even with only one primary engineer needs an assistant. So, for me the bare minimum of staff in a commercial facility would be three, maybe four.

You can always wear a lot of hats but I've seen this really tear people up and the product is what ends up suffering when the engineer isn't able to completely (or something close to completely) focus on engineering.

Then it's figuring out the budget for space. Will you be able to float the floors? How much can you spend on rent per month? How much cold hard cash can you put down on contractors and building supplies? In my opinion a commercial recording facility should look like any other professional offices space - only much funkier and visually stimulating - but it should not look cheap. It should look clean, be kept clean and the customer should be greeted professionally both on the phone and at the door.

First thing I would do though is sit down and figure out your budget.

How much money do I have to spend (total)?

Next, talk to a professional financial adviser.

Follow that by getting friendly with various contractors (construction) who have done work in/with other commercial recording facilities in the area. Get them to give you some rough quotes. You will need electrical and ventalation work done.

You might also need to talk to the city and see if you need any special permits. You will also likely need to incorporate.

There is lots to do; how well it goes depends on the quality of people you choose to work with, how much money you have and how well yourself and the people you hire choose to use that money.

[w2w]

This is not meant to offend at all.....but VERY well equipped rooms with vintage consoles & tons of outboard gear,rooms designed by pro's etc,are having trouble making $55-$85 an hour.If your even asking on a forum if you should be taking this step....you probably shouldnt.Unless you have a very steady flow of clients willing to pay $55-85 or whatever,you probably shouldnt be doing it.Just because you have a room with a "look" does not mean additional work will come in.You said it yourself,what puts you above the Digi 001 & 002 crowd?The stakes have gone WAY up in the home studio game these days.A lot of the 001 & 002 crowd have already jumped up to the Pro Tools HD,Apogee etc.You can find tons of large pro consoles in bedrooms these days.An Argosy & some 02Rs,thats not too hard to find in a lot of bedroom studios.Im not trying to mean,just showing another side of it.If you were working steady,making some $$$,have steady clients etc,YOU would/will know if this is the right step to take.Do a LOT of research/planning before you do it.Insurance,rent,utilities etc,its gotta be paid somehow.If you cant make it support itself,and take some money home....dont do it.On the same note,if you really feel you have to try it...you never know,you have as good of a shot as the next guy...just think about what you are getting yourself into.Best of luck.

[CorkyTart]

Clients are usually more interested in the sound than the look. Most clients dont really know gear but they can tell by your past work what you can offer their project regarding sound.

[max cooper]

Yeah, I think it's like starting a family... if you have to even think about it for a second, don't do it.

Those of you who should ignore that advice will know who you are.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by max cooper

Yeah, I think it's like starting a family... if you have to even think about it for a second, don't do it.

Those of you who should ignore that advice will know who you are.

I agree. Then couple that with the fact that you said you need security & guns on the premisis and it's a no brainer. DON"T!!!! Not worth the headache for the amount of money you MIGHT make. And certainly not worth the risk for the money you might quite possibly LOOSE.

[uvc1977]

Ill throw a alternative idea to consider is can you build a nice mix room with a second room to use for overdubs where you live? It might not be as nice as having a dedicated studio but you would have siginifcant lower overheads. Secondly rather than market yourself as a studio market your services as a engineer/producer. Track drums in big studios and have a portable recording rig for other locations, do the rest in your studio.

I think this could work well if you live in a place that has a nice relaxed atmosphere, ive started doing this where I live and so far everyone who has come has loved it because they enter via a lovely sub tropical rainforest garden. My window opens up to the garden so you arent locked in some cellar. If you have a place that has a nice aesthetic then id try use that to your advantage.

That said if you open up a commercial space obviously do your sums and weigh up the risks. I think your right the studio has to conform to a certain 'look' of what people expect a studio to look like. Either way goodluck

[adamcal]

Clients come to studios for the PEOPLE who work there, no gear will attract clients over and above someone who appears to know what they are doing. and more that that gets the job done well.

perhaps that's why some of the big dollar vintage desk megabuck studios are having trouble, while some smaller mid range guys are killing it, making a connection to the clients. of course its a case by case thing.

Fill a room full of gear and all you got is a room full of gear.

now put in a kickass engineer who is interested, not grumpy, tireless, has no life, has no other interests, never sleeps, has no clothes, old shoes, a crappy car, and lives and breaths audio... then you have a studio with half a chance.

[Sqye]

i have 2 friends in germany who made MILLIONS (almost 100)
in just over 3 years with a few acts.

their gear:

mackie 8 bus
akai sampler
some meager mics


they never let the label or industry people come to their place.
always found a way around it.
their space was nice, but it was one big room in a private house,
with a converted closet/ iso booth.

they owned almost EVERYTHING attached their acts:

management
publishing
songs
merchandising
licensing
(etc.)
along with a good chunk of the artists they worked with


i'm just saying. it wasn't about the gear and the room,
it was about them pumping out hot singles,
and marketing the F*CK out of them.

they were HUNGRY people, and they got the job done
QUICKLY, and got the music OUT.
they were also lucky (in the right place at the right time
with the right product).

they did work VERY hard, though,
for quite a few years to get there.


of course, this is only ONE style of business,
and is NOT the rent-a-room idiom.

[remo]

I'd love to hear some of their work... can you tell us which artists they produced?

[Curve Dominant]

Originally Posted by Sqye

i have 2 friends in germany who made MILLIONS (almost 100)
in just over 3 years with a few acts.

their gear:

mackie 8 bus
akai sampler
some meager mics

they never let the label or industry people come to their place.
always found a way around it.
their space was nice, but it was one big room in a private house,
with a converted closet/ iso booth.

they owned almost EVERYTHING attached their acts:

management
publishing
songs
merchandising
licensing
(etc.)
along with a good chunk of the artists they worked with

i'm just saying. it wasn't about the gear and the room,
it was about them pumping out hot singles,
and marketing the F*CK out of them.

they were HUNGRY people, and they got the job done
QUICKLY, and got the music OUT.
they were also lucky (in the right place at the right time
with the right product).

they did work VERY hard, though,
for quite a few years to get there.

of course, this is only ONE style of business,
and is NOT the rent-a-room idiom.

This is the direction the recorded music industry has been going in for some years now. A lot of people have gone under the bus from not reading the writing on the wall, and a lot more are headed that way. The kid who's folding jeans at the Gap can't hear the difference between the convertors on a Rosetta and a 001, and wouldn't give a fukk if she could.

The few remaining successful recording studios in Philly are doing well because they're involved in the Philly music community in VARIOUS ways. Musicians and artists don't go to these studios for the gear, they go for the operators and their DEMONSTRATED passion for the art.

If anything makes the $$$ difference, it's the live room. Turtle, where I've been working out of lately, has a great sounding & well-equipped live room featuring an immaculately maintained 1928 Steinway concert grand - a huge draw for the jazz & classical clients. Boring things like dependable wiring & routing, and flexible headphone mix capabilities, actually make a big difference, because artists & musicians notice things like: Is it easy to work there, and is the gear dependable and working all the time. A lot of Gearslutz might sniff at the Pro Control (because it's not a "real" console), but honestly, I think Turtle could even take that out and just have a mouse & keypad, and people would still go there to record.

If you really feel like you need something with faders on it just to cure your "mouse insecurity," you could prolly find a used Pro Control for cheap, and you know, it's not bad actually. It doesn't have "a sound" but it does have "a look" to it, and it works fine.

Just remember though: if there's someone in your neighborhood working with nothing but a 001 and a mouse, and who's good with people and produces slamming mixes that gets his clients noticed, you've got serious competition.

Happy hunting.

[Ernest Buckley]

Seriously... are you out of your mind?

No really. Seriously.

EB

[severe]

Originally Posted by Curve Dominant

Just remember though: if there's someone in your neighborhood working with nothing but a 001 and a mouse, and who's good with people and produces slamming mixes that gets his clients noticed, you've got serious competition.

Word.

IF I open a room in New Orleans, I'm pretty well known throughout that community. LOL I don't fear the guy with a 001. If I do open a room it will be a small place where i track/mix hip hop/rnb mainly so I can get by with a control room and a decent recording booth. I can also make 8 ins/outs work for conversion. I may do if from home, but I kinda like being able to leave work "at work".

As far as the security issues. (I've heard of studios getting robbed at gunpoint, and though I'd probably know most of my customers pretty well, you can never be to sure.)


I would start out at home with a select group of clients and move to a bigger space if the demand is there, but I HATE thinking of personal shit that may come up missing from home if I have a room open to the public.

I may just add a procontrol/argosy combo and go for it.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

but I HATE thinking of personal shit that may come up missing from home if I have a room open to the public.

Two words for you - new clients. Personally, I couldn't work with people I can't trust my studio with - much less my family if I had the studio at home. Just my opinion though....

[chadly]

Well, unlike the other negative nancies I'll bite.

Control 24. Used.

Best bling for the $$$. Looks really nice. It's marginally useful. Clients not in the know will think it's worth more then their lives. (Had someone say that once, I laughed. . .) Clients in the know won't care.

Also an Avalon 737 always puts a smile on the hip-hop guys faces . . . even if you don't use it.

I'd also like to say that unlike all of the other help-me-upgrade posts, this one has merit.

He's not asking advice as to whether he should open a room. He wants to know opinions on bling.

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

IF I open a room in New Orleans, I'm pretty well known throughout that community. LOL I don't fear the guy with a 001. If I do open a room it will be a small place where i track/mix hip hop/rnb mainly so I can get by with a control room and a decent recording booth. I can also make 8 ins/outs work for conversion. I may do if from home, but I kinda like being able to leave work "at work".

As far as the security issues. (I've heard of studios getting robbed at gunpoint, and though I'd probably know most of my customers pretty well, you can never be to sure.)


I would start out at home with a select group of clients and move to a bigger space if the demand is there, but I HATE thinking of personal shit that may come up missing from home if I have a room open to the public.

I may just add a procontrol/argosy combo and go for it.

[PT User]

Well we are in the same boat, but I pulled the trigger at the beginning of Nov. I found a place downtown Cincinnati, and I mean right downtown!. Nice thing is, no one can get to my floor unless I turn the floor on with the elevator key. 6 story building im located on the third floor. Elevator opens up right into the lobby area of the studio and heads up the hallway to the office areas.

I also feel I need a control 24 and a custom desk to make it look legit. You almost have to, I have a pretty good size control room which used to have a Neotek Elite sitting in it. It doesnt feel right for me to bring my little 8ch Mackie Control in there......so I will be getting a Control 24 and the Desk to go with it. The mackie control will be moved the another room for pre production.

I hope it all works out for ya.

Eddie

[joeq]

when I have gone to other people's studios as the drummer I have noticed that the rooms that say "spend money" are the rooms that are comfortable.

uncluttered, good seating, light where it is needed, everybody can hear, plenty of oxygen, room stuff- not necessarily "gear" stuff.

a room that says spend money is a room that says "slow down"

[thejook]

People is marketing in this business - whoever said "PEOPLE" in an earlier reply is dead-on. As long as your sound is up to your clients' par (which it sounds like your're confident it is), your vibe will take you everywhere. Also your CV, of course - if you've done a bunch of big acts or had a lot to do with some well known small ones, that could convince a lot of people to book your studio over others.

Differentiate - that's the key. Constantly, CONSTANTLY ask yourself, "why would *I* book here instead of somewhere else?" Come up with a great answer, or make one up that's believable and that's your niche.

[stevep]

Originally Posted by adamcal

Fill a room full of gear and all you got is a room full of gear.

now put in a kickass engineer who is interested, not grumpy, tireless, has no life, has no other interests, never sleeps, has no clothes, old shoes, a crappy car, and lives and breaths audio... then you have a studio with half a chance.

I Resemble that remark

no ssl yet .I may do if from home, but I kinda like being able to leave work "at work".

If you start up a commercial room you might not see your home for a long time,.... Then again being in the studio 20 hours a day for 8 days a week is not all that bad

Some good advice given here so far,.....

I say, if you dont try you will never know, its better to try and fail then to not try at all.





steve

[Kore]

A lot depends on who you are pitching too. If it is A&R reps they only know two words, Neve and SSL.

You should also consider that there are certain pieces of gear that visiting engineers will expect or certainly hope to see, namely 1176s, NS10s.

the best advice I can give is that flashy gear is not always the attraction and the phrase 'if you build it they will come' doesnt apply. We set up our studio three years ago with all the flashy toys but it has still been a real struggle to get going. the key is word of mouth from people who have had good experiences there.

g

www.kore-studios.com

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Curve Dominant

Musicians and artists don't go to these studios for the gear, they go for the operators and their DEMONSTRATED passion for the art.

I always thought that the best engineers and operaters are the ones that don't demonstrate their passion and just do the work.

[foldback]

I once had a huge studio downtown, 10,000 square feet, I said huge. My girlfriend made that old warehouse feel like home, lots of old couches, wierd lamps, statues, she was very clever with a budget of zero dollars.

A 100 watt Marshall stack on 11 sounded like a transistor radio in that big old cavern, it was great, we could do metal, heavy rock and even some classical in that space, nothing loaded up that room. Across the back we had a 50 foot wide stage with lighting and PA so we could do live video shoots also, too bad cheap video had not come of age yet.

The control room was not acoustically sound but it was gigantic and very comfortable, I mixed on Fostex nearfields driven by a Crown 300. I had some massive Fostex dual 15 monitors with the teak wood horns and slot tweeters (somebody loaned them to me for storage, god they were heavy). I rarely used the big monitors but they looked damn cool.

My recording gear at that time was a Fostex B16 and matching 16 channel mixer. I had two good mics and a bunch of 57's. We ran a deal where a band could get 4 hours for $100. I booked it every night for a year and a half until I got totally burned out but I learned how to record and mix. We could take a shite band with two or three songs, record'em and mix em in four hours and not be ashamed of what we cranked out.

Eventually bands with money began to come too, problem was, I could not stand listening to their music, awful crap, terrible writing, those 4 hour sesssions seemed like they were days long. I yearned to get back to just recording me and creating. Rent and utilities was eating all our profit. The lease ran out and I killed the business off.

I still do sound for a living but now it's corporate customers and boring music that pays very well, it's easy to tolerate a boring performance when they're going to hand you $500 for a days work with no overhead, even better when you get 12 or 13 of these days in a row.

To succeed I think you need to know why you're doing what you're doing. Be passionate, committed, give it all you've got.

We did not have much in the way of equipment but we had a big comfy room, a cheap price and we made good recordings. There's your bling!

Best of luck to you.

[Steffmo]

Wow....a lot of great post reflecting lots of things that happen over the years.

I'm celebrating 20 years as a commercial studio this week by installing a new rig in CR A ( I have three rooms). Makes me think about a lot of these posts.

First and most important, in my mind is that the Studio business in general is a waste of time. I feel the same way about engineering. However, I have a lot of faith in the Music Production business. All I'm saying is that openning a studio strictly to sell hours has a very marginal return on investment, but if you plan to do some producing, managing, or label work it can be great. Tony Bongiovi told me that the power Station never survived on the hourlys, but his production deals kept it afloat. the studio actually failed when he got in some financial hot water and his bank made him STOP doing spec deals.

In my mind every hour dark in a studio is wasted. Use thaat time to create intellectual property assets.

As to the rest....I don't think the look has to be extravagant anymore. Spaces are important...the lounge, maybe an spare office someone can use to listen, practice, write lyric, or do business away from the session. Net access, phone lines.

I just spent 3K on a custom designed desk to hold an 02r96 and a ton of analog gear. It might turn out to be the best 3K I ever spent as it makes the CR look formidable post anaolg desk. It also creates a well integrated working environment out of diverse modules for engineers. Keeps the wire out of the way...also important.

Chairs are important. Get good ones. Lighting in the work areas, and the ability to create mood when needed.

Past that its people and how you treat them. If they like you, and feel you support them, they will overlook that bad patch point on Channel 16. But if you abuse them, as I have seen several no longer around do, they will HAMMER you over the same tiny flaw.

Good luck. You have the disease.