Drum tuning devices: Any of them work?

[tubedude]

I've found the Drumdial, which uses tympanic pressure to tune, $60
and
Torque drum key, uses lug tension which doesnt sound too great considering some lugs are hard to turn with no head on the drum at all. $17

Anything else I should check out? Any of them actually work well? Whats your experience? Drum tuning is fricking hard.

[tubedude]

Read the instructions on this thing. Has a chart too. I think this might be a nifty device. www.drumdial.com

[Benmrx]

I've got one of the drum dials.

At the very least it gives you a pretty good starting point.

It's saved my ass a few times. $60 well spent in my book, especially if your new to drum tuning (like me)

[Jamz]

The Drumdial can certainly act as a starting point to help insure equal tensioning on the lugs. However, I know no better method than tapping and tweaking to taste to fine tune your sound. The dimensions of the drum will offer certain limits but between various choices in heads and your ears it really is an individual and subjective art.

[The dman]

Quote

"The Drumdial can certainly act as a starting point to help insure equal tensioning on the lugs. However, I know no better method than tapping and tweaking to taste to fine tune your sound. The dimensions of the drum will offer certain limits but between various choices in heads and your ears it really is an individual and subjective art."

Spot on. I'm not a drummer but I've spent many hours discussing drums and tuning with my drum tech and the above is what I've found to be true

[Kris]

Get a drumdial... you won't regret it!

[scrubs]

The drumdial definitely gets you in the ballpark. Then, tweak with your ears until it sounds good. Write down the drumdial tensions for each head -- then, if you have to replace with the same model head, tuning will be a snap.

[max cooper]

Nothing's more annoying than watching a drummer go back and forth between a drumdial and a drum key, knowing that he's looking, not listening.

I know it's a good tool, I just spent too many days watching this phenomenon.

[C/G]

I'm a drummer. I have a Tama Tension Watch. I use it to get to where I want the general tone of the drum to be then fine tune from there.

If I am changing a skin during a session that I am drumming on, it is a fast way to get to the exact tone quicker than by simply swapping skins and tuning from scratch.

Lets say I have my rack tom and the tension I usually have it set to is 55. New skin on, a quick adjust so it is at 55, then fine tune and I'm off to the races. Done and tuned in a few minutes.

It is a tool to get you there quicker and should not be relied upon to actually tune your kit. You still need to know how to tune a drum properly.

It is like a cordless drill compared to a screw driver; one is faster.

[danranges]

Why spend $60 when you can make a drumdial for >$5?

http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/sh...light=drumdial

you're gonna have to fine-tune, as mentioned, however, it will get you pretty well into the ballpark of where you want to be, tonewise.

also, seat your heads properly first, it will make life easier.

[Flymax]

There are some good books on the subject..you could get one..
I thought the drum dial was frustrating and inaccurate..

Try this..
1)Put the drum on you lap..

2)Loosen all the lugs to finger tight..

3)Start to tighen the lugs a half turn at a time going from 12 o'clock to 6,1 to 7,2 to 8, etc, until you get backto 12..
The trick with this step is that when you get to each lug for the first time, you tighten it back to finget tight before doing the turn...

4)Continue this pattern until the top head lugs have gone 1-2 complete turns (maybe more or less depending on the sound you're after)

5) Now you're going to listen- Lift the drum off your lap with your palm evenly over the bottom head and not touching the rim..tap with the key an inch away from each lug and tweak until they are the same..

6) Do the other side the same way..

You can experiment with what happens with top tight/bootom loose.. both tight...whatever..

If it's a new head you have to break the glue seal thats between the head and the rim. One way is to mount the head tight and push really hard on the middle of the skin..you'll hear the cracking...

Good Luck,
Pete

[stonewall40]

I had a drum dial for a little while, and didn't like it at all. I felt I couldn't trust it because it would give me a different reading on the same lug without adjusting the tuning. Perhaps I got a defective one or didn't have it setup properly.
I found later and after much practice that it was much quicker to go by ear.

[cosmos]

Originally Posted by FLYMAX

There are some good books on the subject..you could get one..
I thought the drum dial was frustrating and inaccurate..

Try this..
1)Put the drum on you lap..

2)Loosen all the lugs to finger tight..

3)Start to tighet the lugs a half turn at a time going from 12 o'clock to 6,1 to 7,2 to 8, etc, until you get backto 12..
The trick with this step is that when you get to each lug for the first, you tighten it back to finget tight before doing the turn...

4)Continue this pattern until the top head lugs have gone 1-2 complete turns (maybe more or less depending on the sound you're after)

5) Now you're going to listen- Lift the drum off your lap with your palm evenly over the bottom head and not touching the rim..tap with the key an inch away from each lug and tweak until they are the same..

6) Do the other side the same way..

You can experiment with what happens with top tight/bootom loose.. both tight...whatever..

If it's a new head you have to break the glue seal thats between the head and the rim. One way is to mount the head tight and push really hard on the middle of the skin..you'll hear the cracking...

Good Luck,
Pete

That's the best advice you could get . use your ears, once you learn to tune them yourself, you can get to any sound that you want and quick.

[carival]

Having never used one personally may disqualify my opinion, but I can't help myself. In 25 years, I've never seen a really good drummer use one. I've witnessed not good drummers using them with not good results. It may be like a guitar tuner that can get you in the ballpark. I don't know. Proper tuning of anything is not easy. Being good at anything rarely is. It is a skill that takes lots of time and practice. Also, understanding what is likely attainable from a specific instrument is key. It cuts down on the knob twiddling. I don't believe that there is a substitute for experience, but there are lots of tools/toys to sidetrack one from learning or hearing the important stuff. Take the money that you would spend on the magic tuner gizmo and put it towards hiring a good experienced drummer who knows his craft to give you a lesson. Just a thought.

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by carival

I've witnessed not good drummers using them with not good results. It may be like a guitar tuner that can get you in the ballpark.

Right. Except for the fact that tuning a guitar is kinda objective and tuning a drum is kinda subjective.

I mean, you can never get a guitar totally in tune with itself (except for a compensated nut, maybe) and you can favor low, high or inbetween, but there are probably a hundred ideas about how to tune one drum.

You can tune the drum to the song, to the shell, make the bottom head a fifth, etc.

[markblasco]

One thing that people seem to misunderstand is that tuning a drum is not like tuning a guitar. It would be more similar to setting up a guitar (adjusting the action, truss rod, etc.). It sounds like it might be easy, but in truth, unless you have a lot of practice it is quite difficult. The reason you don't see pro drummers using drum dials is because they have a ton of experience, and know exactly what they are doing.

A drum dial is a great tool for someone who is not a pro drummer. The problem is that most people look at it the wrong way - a drum dial is just a tool, and can't tell you what tension your particular drums will sound best at. If you don't know where the drums need to be, the dial is not going to change that.

Here is my suggestion for how to use it:

1 - Get a new set of heads for all of your drums. You will want fresh heads top and bottom.

2 - Hire a drummer to come in and tune up the drums to how you want them to sound. You could do this yourself, but it may be more time/cost effective to just hire someone who can talk to you, figure out what sound you want, and help you get it. They can also help teach you the proper way to seat a head, how the tone is affected by tuning, etc.

3 - Once you have your drums sounding the way you want them to, use the drum dial to figure out the tension settings for the heads. Write these settings down.

If you do this, you can always throw on a new set of heads, get them seated, and use the dial to bring them up to the tensions that you want. It does save a lot of time.

You will need to fine tune by ear, there is no getting around that. A drum dial, however, will get you a better sound faster than if you don't know what you are doing and are just trying to wing it.

You have to approach drum tuning like any other skill - either you spend hours and hours teaching yourself how to do it, or you can hire someone to teach you the basics in a much shorter time.

If we look at the guitar analogy again, tuning a drum would be like setting up a guitar. Using a drum dial would be like using a set of measuring tools. The tools will not tell you what tensions will sound best for your drums, just like the tools will not tell you what settings for your guitar will give you the feel you want - they will, however, help you to get back to that point once you have found it.

[ScumBum]

Forget the dial . I had one awhile back ,

The only real way to tune a drum is with a drum key and much experience .

It takes alot of time at first and frustration to learn what to listen for .

When I first started to try and tune my drums , I'd spend around 4 hours and still not be happy .

Now years later , I can tune a kit in about an hour from scratch with new heads .

Being an engineer this helps big time cause sadly most drummers can't tune their kits , and if you record drums that arn't tuned properly they sound like crap no matter what .

If you really want to learn to tune drums you can , it just takes hours of practice , the dial won't teach you how .

[redddog]

My problem with the Drumdial is that when I finish going around to each lug, there's usually one or 2 lugs that are way higher than the rest. I'll dial those lugs back and they will be completely loose and still have higher readings. I have tried everything possible to avaiod this and it still seems to happen every time. I've attempted different approaches maybe 20 times on each drum and I still get this - tension at one of the lugs is substantially higher than the rest. And it could be a different lug each time.

What if anything, can be done? Would this indicate a problem with the shells?

[Alexi]

....it's a little tricky, before and after you use the dial on an individual rod you have to apply some pressure to the head, to make sure it is seated correctly on the rim of the shell......


cheers


alex

[Matt Smith]

Originally Posted by redddog

My problem with the Drumdial is that when I finish going around to each lug, there's usually one or 2 lugs that are way higher than the rest. I'll dial those lugs back and they will be completely loose and still have higher readings. I have tried everything possible to avaiod this and it still seems to happen every time. I've attempted different approaches maybe 20 times on each drum and I still get this - tension at one of the lugs is substantially higher than the rest. And it could be a different lug each time.

What if anything, can be done? Would this indicate a problem with the shells?

Same problem here, from another newbie.

Matt

[Cheech]

Are you confused yet? LOL!!!!!

Everyone has an opinion, some you may trust more than others. I say try it, and see if you like it. Experiment with it a bit, and if it helps................Well keep it.
If not, then sell it. I dont think it would hurt to try it, and you may learn a thing or 2 while using it. I sure did.

Now I use it sometimes, and sometimes I dont, because I learned to tune a drum in the process of using my drum dial.

I would suggest if you dont have a clue as to tuning drums (like myself when I bought mine) Use it to get close, and go from there.

Good luck.

[Diablo]

Originally Posted by redddog

My problem with the Drumdial is that when I finish going around to each lug, there's usually one or 2 lugs that are way higher than the rest. I'll dial those lugs back and they will be completely loose and still have higher readings. I have tried everything possible to avaiod this and it still seems to happen every time. I've attempted different approaches maybe 20 times on each drum and I still get this - tension at one of the lugs is substantially higher than the rest. And it could be a different lug each time.

What if anything, can be done? Would this indicate a problem with the shells?

Are these new drum heads and if so, are you stretching the heads first. I always stretch new heads for a bit before tuning. I remember reading in Mixerman's Diaries of the LA Drum tech that like to stand on the drum head to stretch them out.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by FLYMAX

...If it's a new head you have to break the glue seal thats between the head and the rim. One way is to mount the head tight and push really hard on the middle of the skin..you'll hear the cracking...

This is always a good idea because it seats the head. If you don't do this, the tuning will wander all over the map once the drum is being played.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by stonewall40

I had a drum dial for a little while, and didn't like it at all. I felt I couldn't trust it because it would give me a different reading on the same lug without adjusting the tuning. Perhaps I got a defective one or didn't have it setup properly.

I found later and after much practice that it was much quicker to go by ear.

I just give it a couple of little 'taps' and let it settle in. The Drumdial is never going to give you more than an Average reading, (its a joke that it has all those subdivisions.) - changing distance from the rim will change things too.

When lug tensions get too varied, I can get fooled by harmonics into thinking I need to go down when I should go up. One lug way off from the rest can cause weird things to happen at the opposite lug and the adjacent lugs. That's the main reason why I like to use it to get into the "ball park". Final tuning must be done by ear.

"Ball Park" is more about speed than accuracy. I can also get into the ball park by being very anal about my turns and alternations in tightening the lugs, but the Tension Watch makes the process much faster. Putting on a new head at a noisy rehearsal or gig will really make you appreciate it.

the torsion wrenches are basically useless because the resistance of the bolt has more to do with washers and threads and lubrication than with head tension.

[C/G]

I assume the question about the dial was for a non-drummer because most of the tips here for tuning (all good ones btw!) are basically common knowledge for anyone who has been playing drums for a while, at least it should be anyway. With any tuning aid like the drum dial, your ears will be the final tool used in tuning. The link below is a great hands-on tuning reference. A few friends always want me to tune their kits and I will show them how and do it once only, then I print out the tuning bible (link below) and force them to read it.

http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/

[JohnRoberts]

I'm new to this forum and since I make and sell a drum tuner I will try my best not to be self promotional. I trust the mods will let me know if I stray.

I will second (third?) the advice to check out http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/ That website should be mandatory reading for all drummers.

I will disagree with the poster who said tuning drums are subjective while tuning guitars are objective. It's not quite that simple. What most people call "tuning" drums is probably 80% making all the lugs the same (clearing), 15% adjusting batter tension for stick feel, and maybe 5% tuning to an actual note if that.

And then if tuning to a note, which resonance? The bigger difference between drums and guitars is that the higher overtones in drums are not harmonically related to the fundamental like they are in almost every other musical instrument. So in a typical drum the fundamental will sound a different note than the batter head overtone, which could be yet a different note than the resonant head overtone (mostly audible as sustain or after ring).

IMO "voicing" drums (as in decideing upon specific batter and resonant head weights and fundmental-overtone tuning" is indeed subjective, but tuning as in returning to a specific known prior voicing is objective not unlike tuning a guitar (albeit with more lugs to twist).

Drumhead tension gauges and lug torque wrenchs are useful aids to get you to a good starting point but they both suffer in the end from the underlying assumption that the rest of the drum is perfectly round, flat, uniform, etc... In the real world, real drums aren't. The poster who complained that he had one or two loose lugs when tuning with a tension gauge may need to ignore what looks or feels right, and listen to how the drum head is acting.

It's worth investing the time to properly tune your drums because the sound and feel is that much better. An experienced tuner who carefully taps and listens to the actual drumhead, especially if using some kind of external note reference can get good, repeatable results. Getting a good drum sound shouldn't be chance.

JR

[passenger]

HI I have to say NAY to the drum dial. It is useless in medium to tight tuning on drums. Try the DATK key from EVANS if your tension rods are all clean. If find it susprisimgly effective and cheap.

Next GO BUY DRUM TUNING by BOB GATZEN!!!!!! this video is CHEAP. and it is so detailed and in depth. If you can;t tune fter this 2 hour masterpiece of drum tuning.... then you are beyong drum tuning. The video covers diferent head types, rim types, wood types, suspension systems, bass drums, snares, toms.... everything with such detail and thouroughnes...... it is disgusting and nausiating!!!! but damn, you'll tune well after watching it. GET IT!

BTW... it took me 12 years to learn to tune!

[tgrokz]

i have the torque key and i love it. its actually pretty accurate if you're careful.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by passenger

BTW... it took me 12 years to learn to tune!

i've been drumming for 20 and i think i'm just starting to get the hang of it.

hey colin, great link!


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by JohnRoberts

I will second (third?) the advice to check out http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/ That website should be mandatory reading for all drummers.

Most excellent to see you here, and thanks for contributing your considerable expertise.

--Ethan