My bass tone sux - help me sweet Jesus!

[I.R.Baboon]

Fender Precision (new Mexican built)

into a DBX 286A mic pre/ processor

into an Apogee converter.

The sound i like is similar to the last Jamiroquai album.

Whatever I do, the sound is kinda fuzzy, and lacking fat low bass. I tried messing with all settings and input levels, but this fuzzyness won't go away! Could it be the pickups?

Soooooo, can anyone give me some pointers on a chain to give great direct bass sound?

I.R.B.

[mattasbob]

I've been using a Anguilar DI into a wunder pre recently and been extremely happy with the results. Using some comp afterwords in the mix (uad 1176)

[u b k]

post a clip... we can't help what we can't hear!


gregoire
del
ubk
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[superburtm]

get an 1176....fixed my bass tones

[I.R.Baboon]

Originally Posted by u b i k

post a clip... we can't help what we can't hear!


gregoire
del
ubk
.

Good point!

Here's an MP3 (this is not a song, just a Jamiroquai groove i threw together to practice the bass to) - the bass is solo'd in the middle.

I.R.

[Mike Caffrey]

I think you have a monitoring problem. Listening on my laptop speakers, it sonds good. Maybe a littte clean. I think you're not hearing all of the low end that's actuall there.

[tINY]

EQs can help....




-tINY

[Blast9]

If its fuzzy, maybe there's an impedance mis-match? Are you plugging it into an instrument input?

Haven't heard the last Jamiroquai album, but the bass player used to use an active 5 string (Yamaha?).

That will certainly help the clarity. maybe get your vol/tone controls checked out on the bass. I doubt its the pickups.

***

QUOTE of DBX's specs:
The main features of the DBX 286A include:

* Preamp with gain control and 80Hz high-pass filter
* Unique DBX OverEasy compressor
* De-esser
* Enhancer
* Expander/gate
* Full complement of metering and status LEDs
* New dbx standard internal power supply
* Frequency control for de-esser
* Expanded meter to show heavy de-essing
* Above/below threshold indicator for gate
* +48VDC phantom power
* Precision detented controls
* XLR mic input for balanced or unbalanced signals
* Additional 1/4 inch TRS input
* Insert jack between preamp and signal processing sections for loop out to external processors


***

Are you plugging into the 1/4 inch TRS jack input? I wonder if this isn't an instrument jack?

Or... have you got the de-esser engaged?

[Andreas G]

Can't hear any fuzz in your bass-track maybe the bass sounds to thin in comparison to your reference (I haven't heared the last Jamiroquai album). For a more massive and fat bass-sound, I'd try to boost some dbs in the upper bass/lowmid region and/or cut a lil in the upper mids, that you found fuzzy sounding. I'd eq the bass imbedded in the mix.

Andreas

[Ruudman]

The 286 has a line input, not a hiZ input that the Fenderita Passiva would need. Try at least to get hold of a DI.
Also, if one or more of the dynamic sections of the unit is engaged, certain settings could add buzz to the signal.

One tip (don't mean to sound like an a**): The mp3 lacks some definition in your playing; I think you can find more punch by focusing on that.

Good luck


ruudman

[robd]

if it's a1/4 inch trs, I highly doubt that it is intened as or has the correct impedance to by used as a di instrument input. You should probably get a di. Just search this forum for "bass di" and I would guess you will find more info than you really want or need. (I might be wrong, but I would think that if it was intended as an instrument input it would be ts, not trs.)

[Blast9]

My guess too --- I think this is where the problem lies.

From the description this is a dedicated mic pre + dynamics and filters with TRS for insert, no DI or instrument inputs.

[Methlab]

yep..maybe try a sansamp with instrument cables.

also, what pickups are you using? the ones that came with the mexi? because you may want to get the classic ones.

[mrbowes]

Buy Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounders + TI Jazz Flats + a decent DI (Little Labs, Radial JDI). Your tone problems will dissapear.

EQ can fix things, but you really should invest in some decent pups and strings.

[dial_it_in]

Hey,
I want to give a recommendation for your bass tone. The Avalon DI, I think you can pick one up for $450 or so these days, is a great investment for bass. I'm not saying the best but a great tool. With this box you can go straight to tape without having to incorporate a mic pre if you don't have a great one. There is a tone selector on there with a few settings (6-8 I think) and setting numner two gives you HUGE low end with a nice presence up top. There are also plenty of other settings for plenty of other tones. It's versatile and it works...Just a suggestion...Before you go and spend thousands.
Good Luck
-Rin-

[cramseur]

I listened to the clip and it sounded okay on my ASP 8 monitors.

I could see you wanting just a little low mid thump (it was clean-ish sounding) but in no way was it fuzzy.

I'd try the sansamp bass DI pedal...$189 or so to add a little girth to the sound, then concentrate on proper monitoring.

What monitors do you use now? Is your room treated?

[PoorGlory]

Originally Posted by mrbowes

Buy Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounders + TI Jazz Flats + a decent DI (Little Labs, Radial JDI). Your tone problems will dissapear.

EQ can fix things, but you really should invest in some decent pups and strings.

I second the Quarter Pounders. I bought an $80 Crate bass (who knew they made basses???) off ebay a few years ago, stripped all the hardware and electronics and put new stuff in, including Quarter Pounders. Tusq nut, Quarter Pounders, and a Carvin string-through-body bridge, among other things. Totally brought this cheap bass alive, and now it sounds totally killer. I go straight into the instrument input on a Joemeek TwinQ and couldn't be happier with the clean, fat tone I get.

[u b k]

alright, at the risk of being the nerd who crashes the party, i'll go on record that all the gear in the world isn't going to fix the primary issues i hear in this clip: timing and precision.

señor baboon, your tone is actually pretty decent; it's not my personal favorite, but i could mix with it, any freq i'd need is there to grab and manipulate as my dirty little hands saw fit.

but it'd take work to get your track sitting in the mix because your playing isn't consistent. you tend to rush the pocket, a big no-no for bass but especially for funk bass. more important, though, is that your notes don't 'pop' the way they do when the sick guys lay it down. in any given phrase, you have clean notes, you have slurred indistinct notes, and you have buzzing notes that weren't fully fretted/plucked and therefore weren't fully realized.

my advice, should you consider it worth the paper it isn't printed on, is that you not practice along with a song, because the existing bass track will mask all your flaws and let you skate by. build a drumbeat that has the same feel as the jamiroquai (sp?) song, then slow it down to ONE HALF tempo and learn to play that groove at that tempo. it will numb your brain, but you will very quickly hear all the dozens of ways that you anticipate the beat and fudge the articulation.

one of the wisest music teachers i ever had the joy of working with said "if you can't play it slow, you can't play it fast, you can only fake it." i believe he is right. break this groove down, bit by bit, make slow deep love to it, every day bump the tempo up another 1 or 2 bpm, be eternally patient, and within 2 weeks you will be nailing it.

and, suddenly, you'll find that most of your "tone" issues have miraculously disappeared.

and let me just close by saying you are obviously a great player with good hands and a very musical sensibility, you just have ears that want to hear the uncompromising best. you're already close, and you have most of the skills, all you need is a little of the right kind of consistent, disciplined practice to bring it home.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[I.R.Baboon]

Thanks all for the suggestions.

I think it's clear, i need a decent D.I. box first - then i'll look further into the various suggestions - the Avalon DI sounds intersting - gonna check that out.

Someone asked about my monitoring - it's just check Hi-Fi spekers in an untreated bedroom.

The bass is just stock as it came out of the shop a few weeks ago.

A few commented on the sloppy bass playing. This is very true.....that's why i'm practicing! - i've only been playing bass for a few weeks after a hiatus of about 15 years (i played for a couple of years as a teenager).

Originally Posted by u b i k

my advice, should you consider it worth the paper it isn't printed on, is that you not practice along with a song, because the existing bass track will mask all your flaws and let you skate by. build a drumbeat that has the same feel as the jamiroquai (sp?) song, then slow it down to ONE HALF tempo and learn to play that groove at that tempo. it will numb your brain, but you will very quickly hear all the dozens of ways that you anticipate the beat and fudge the articulation.

.

Just to be clear, the sound clip i provided isn't the Jamiroquia original, it's something i programmed from the ground up including guitar and keys, so it's only my (admitedly sloppy) bass work on there. I have to say i find it a very good way to practice!

[cdog]

Try micing an amp, doesn't even have to be tube.

Something about speaker compression really helps electric bass.

[struck27]

If all you have are some hi-fi speakers I would def. look into some ref monitors even some mid priced ones will make a huge dif. in your sound. Are you runnig this stuff through an old stereo? If so get some powered monitors that can handle the job.

[mavertron]

Ubik has this one spot on, and the rest of you guys should really listen to the clip before you start telling the guy to buy these speakers, or avalon di's.
The bass playing is good, but its a little fudgey, the groove is ok, but the notes and fretting are a little inconsistent, and this makes that distorted sound that the guy is hearing.
Ubik is right, just slow it down and practice it.
I recently asked a friend of mine who is one of the best bass players in the world,
(Squarepusher - Thomas Jenkinson) if you dont know who he is look him up.
I asked him what he used as a preamp for his bass, thinking he'd have some amazing setup.
His answer ;

"I just use my mackie desk"

[PhilRanger]

SOME PEOPLE SHOULD LISTEN TO THE SAMPLE BEFORE JUST SUGGESTING THEIR OWN FAV HARDWARE/PLUGIN PIECE!

[I.R.Baboon]

On a side note, do people feel that the bass itself can make that much difference to the sound?

When i bought this bass, i tried a few other ones out in the shop as well.......a musicman and a couple of spendy U.S. fenders and i kinda had the feeling the one i was buying was a bit thin sounding in comparison.

Unfortunately funds dictated i buy the mexi version.

So am i trying to win the Kentucky Derby on a three-legged horse?

I.R.B.

(PS, do active's sound better?.......when i was a teenager, i had an active yamaha - apart from hating the action on it, it annoyed the hell out of me that if i forgot to unplug it, the battery would run flat - i vowed to never buy another active!)

[Blast9]

Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon

On a side note, do people feel that the bass itself can make that much difference to the sound?

When i bought this bass, i tried a few other ones out in the shop as well.......a musicman and a couple of spendy U.S. fenders and i kinda had the feeling the one i was buying was a bit thin sounding in comparison.

Unfortunately funds dictated i buy the mexi version.

So am i trying to win the Kentucky Derby on a three-legged horse?

I.R.B.

(PS, do active's sound better?.......when i was a teenager, i had an active yamaha - apart from hating the action on it, it annoyed the hell out of me that if i forgot to unplug it, the battery would run flat - i vowed to never buy another active!)

A lot of rock guys and a hell of a lot of producers swear by the (passive) Precision as a go-to recording bass. Pino Palladino uses one (albeit a 1960's one).

With the right combination of gear (????) you get such a punchy rich fat bottom-end that sits well in the mix.

Conversly, the same can be said of the Musicman Stingray!

They're both great tools...

***

Re bottom end --- Its amazing what playing finger-style nearer the neck or above the Precision's pickup does to the sound --- really deeeeep

[macr0w]

API 512c to FATSO to Apogge has become my holy grail for di bass. Tone for days.