Instrument selection for 70's funk / soul sound?

[nd33]

As a side thread to the drum mic one, I'm working on a similar project but want to get the instruments sounding right first.
Mainly looking for advice in the drum/guitar/bass angles.
Done some net search but can't find much. Here's what I have figured out so far:

Drums: Wooden snares.

Bass: Ampeg SVT amps. Fender Precision or Jazz basses.

Guitar: Telecasters.

Hopefully some of you are in the know on what sort of gear was being used and even playing technique tips.
This is mainly about instruments/amps but if there's certain types of mics that are crucial please add too.
Here's some sounds I'm interested in (itunes required):

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...3441&i=2424202
Overdriven bass.

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...3441&i=3642295
Wicked snare! Whats the go on the guitars?

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...3441&i=1807303
Another great snare!

I don't get how the snares sound like that? Almost soft attackish but slammin too.
Gotta be more to it than tape... Hmm, snare hitting technique/dampening style?


Cheers.

[juicylime]

Rent some DVD's of live funk and soul gigs from the period and try to look at the gear they're playing instead of the backing singers breasts. Not impossible.

[max cooper]

I agree. Funkateers use all kinds of gear.

I think one of the only real obvious instruments that's become known as a Funk Instrument is the C6 Clavinet.

Sure, Strat or Tele with a Fender amp was used a lot, but plenty of Funk cats used Marshalls and Gibsons.

I totally dig Michael Sembello's Tele tone in this clip.


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[juicylime]

What a clip! Savage!

[lozion]

Bad-ass! damn...

[James Guitar]

Originally Posted by max cooper

I think one of the only real obvious instruments that's become known as a Funk Instrument is the C6 Clavinet.

i hate to be *that guy* and i mean this with the greatest of respect, but the clavinet in use is a D6. i felt it best to clear that up in case anyone is on the lookout for this instrument in their quest to replicate the 70's. there is a clavinet C and a clavinet D6 (and some others) but the main funk clav is a D6. stevie used a C now and then, but the D6 was his main axe. pretty cool for sesame street to have stevie wonder on the show!
-J

[Steamy Williams]

Originally Posted by James Guitar

i hate to be *that guy* and i mean this with the greatest of respect, but the clavinet in use is a D6. i felt it best to clear that up in case anyone is on the lookout for this instrument in their quest to replicate the 70's. there is a clavinet C and a clavinet D6 (and some others) but the main funk clav is a D6. stevie used a C now and then, but the D6 was his main axe. pretty cool for sesame street to have stevie wonder on the show!
-J

There is also the black Clavinet E7 that was the successor to the D6, and is basically just a more road-worthy version of the D6. That is what I have.

The keyboard on the recording of "Supersition" is actually a Clavinet C.

[rufus13]

Sesame Street, sponsored by Electro-Voice and the number 635A.

Those kids are my people!

[Bump Music]

If you really want THAT sound on drums, I would find some great vinyl samples and trigger the drums. I've done it many many times with fantastic results.

[max cooper]

Well, I used the term C6 Clavinet the way someone says "let's go get a Coke" and they end up getting a Pepsi.

But since this is gearslutz it makes sense that I should be corrected.

[James Guitar]

Originally Posted by max cooper

Well, I used the term C6 Clavinet the way someone says "let's go get a Coke" and they end up getting a Pepsi.

But since this is gearslutz it makes sense that I should be corrected.

that's why i said it with the greatest of respect. if the thread wasn't "what should i use for 70's instruments" i never would have bothered correcting. i def mean no ill will nor am i suffering from "correctionitis".
yes, stevie plays the C on superstition on the recording. the one in the video is a D6. i think he went with the d6 for all future recordings, but i could be wrong.
the E7 is one other and the only other one i can think of in use is the Clav/Pianet Duo which is in heavy rotation in my studio.
-J

[snappydad]

Originally Posted by juicylime

What a clip! Savage!

Smokin!! I'm down with the kid at the top of the stairs. That brought back some memories.

By the mid-late 70's the Ernie Ball Musicman Stingray bass was in production as well, and it found some favor out there in the funk jungle. Don't forget to throw down a Mutron or other envelope filter for the bassist to step into as well should they need some booty FWOP.

By the way, is that a strapping young Anthony Jackson on the bass? Cool clip.

jeffP

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by James Guitar

yes, stevie plays the C on superstition on the recording. the one in the video is a D6. i think he went with the d6 for all future recordings, but i could be wrong.
the E7 is one other and the only other one i can think of in use is the Clav/Pianet Duo which is in heavy rotation in my studio.
-J

No, man, it's good. We're here to hash this kinda stuff.

So what's the real diff. between the models?

[deve]

www.getthatsound.com maybe you'll find some useful info. It's a cool site anyway

[I.R.Baboon]

Originally Posted by Bump Music

If you really want THAT sound on drums, I would find some great vinyl samples and trigger the drums. I've done it many many times with fantastic results.

NO NO NO
NO NO NO
NO NO NO
NO NO NO
NO NO NO

That's the problem these days. Everything is fake.

[I.R.Baboon]

The funk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enIzgC5E7Hk

[dbbubba]

I.R. Baboon is 100% correct!

You can sample "sounds" of the drums being hit off of LPs or CDs and you can create loops, but you won't have any STANK or GREASE in your funk! A drum machine just can't do it. Ask Nile Rogers! (well, there are ways to kinda' trick machines a bit.)

True funk takes playing a jillion gigs together and riding around in a stinking, filthy bus all over the country. It is a lost art called musical bonding. No one really has the patience to play on that level any more. Hence, the suggestion to sample the sounds.

Since we are sweating deatils...
When Musicman guitars, basses and amps came out they were called MUSICMAN.
Not Ernie Ball.
Ernie Ball bought the Musicman name and re-issued the stuff after Leo Fender died and Musicman went away for a while.
The Ernie Ball re-issues are good though.
Not as good as an original though.

Danny Brown

[u b k]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

True funk takes playing a jillion gigs together and riding around in a stinking, filthy bus all over the country. It is a lost art called musical bonding.

i think that just about sums it up, except for the pound of sugarpacked bud and flight case stuffed with mushrooms.

in fairness, i've seen one or two funky acts here in nyc that were pure badassery, don't know if they've played a jillion gigs, but they were pure stank and my own personal ass was completely unable to resist. so it's not a completely lost art.

funk is one of the few forms of music that, simply by listening to it, makes my face screw up into manifold vaguely disgusted contortions, because it's just so damn sweet when it's right.

i listen to that stevie clip and how the mix sounds, and i think of all the snl shows i've seen in the past 15 years, and i wonder what the hell is wrong with their soundmen that every single act always sounds anemic and disjointed, no glue or character whatsoever.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[u b k]

oh, and i like how stevie and the bass player smoothly pull that drummer up about 2 bpm in time for the vocals to hit and continue to push until the second verse, he was way too laidback when he kicked in.

and props to the drummer for listening and falling in line, now THAT's a lost art!


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

You can sample "sounds" of the drums being hit off of LPs or CDs and you can create loops, but you won't have any STANK or GREASE in your funk! A drum machine just can't do it. Ask Nile Rogers! (well, there are ways to kinda' trick machines a bit.)

Well, I tend to agree with this 98% of the time. But there are those rare cats who can make a drum machine track totally funk.

I think Prince and Larry Blackmon are two of 'em.

Sometimes Prince will just drop a kick and snare dead square on the beat and let everything else push and pull within that to make it funky.

It's damned impressive.

[paultools]

OK, how many of you guys sit up at night watching infomercials?
Not the "Get Rich Quick" ones, or weight-loss/hair-restoration/skin care ones...

I'm talking the Time/Life "get all your favorite songs in this special 10 CD package" ones!

Well, there is now a DVD series of the old show "The Midnight Special"

FREAKING CLASSIC, people! DON'T SLEEP ON THIS ONE if you "want the FUNK"!

http://www.midnightspecial.com/

"NOT AVAILABLE IN ANY STORE!"

No lip-synching or Pitch correction allowed!

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by max cooper

there are those rare cats who can make a drum machine track totally funk. I think Prince and Larry Blackmon are two of 'em.

Didn't Sammy Merendino program some (most?) of the Cameo drum machine tracks? I could be wrong, but something about the sounds they used circa "Word Up" really reminds me of Sammy's late-80's work.

It can be done on a drum machine. YOu'd have to turn the quantize off for some of the "programming/playing" and have the right samples.

To get the right samples, I'd recommend good kits in nice rooms, decent pres yada yada, etc....
probably a D112, a few RE20s, a 57 or 2, throw in a 421's and maybe a U87/47.

OF course you'd need a drummer to hit the kit while you sample the hits.

If you do this properly, it can be done.

BUT while you have the drummer there.
You could ask him to
You could well, Nah go right ahead and make it harder than it has to be

I'd get him to lay the tracks and save the samples for later when I didn't have a drummer around