SSL comp on drum buss & stereo buss?

[Prickstein]

Hey guys

I'm giving the demo of the Waves SSL bundle a wirl and was wondering if you guys who get to use the real deal would put one across the parallel drum buss as well as the stereo mix buss or is that overkill.
Would you use something else for the drums if you were using it across the mix?
Seems to me like the drums would be getting a double dose, one in series and one in parallel.
Oh yeah, and I guess it would be better to use in multi- mono mode so each side is not linked, yes?
Cheers,

Rick

[Steamy Williams]

I'd like to know more about people's experiences with this too.

[Mr.Silver]

Originally Posted by Prickstein

Hey guys

I'm giving the demo of the Waves SSL bundle a wirl and was wondering if you guys who get to use the real deal would put one across the parallel drum buss as well as the stereo mix buss or is that overkill.
Would you use something else for the drums if you were using it across the mix?
Seems to me like the drums would be getting a double dose, one in series and one in parallel.
Oh yeah, and I guess it would be better to use in multi- mono mode so each side is not linked, yes?
Cheers,

Rick

I think it's the only compressor that you can use in a serie.
I use an Xlogic on drums, and then the 384 on my 6000G.

Cheers

[chymer]

I use it on drum bus and master bus simultaneously, it rocks.
CHymer

[CJWall]

How do you guys set it for the drum buss? Just curious.. I do mostly extreme metal stuff and am still trying to find that sweet spot.. any suggestions? Also, how much GR should I typically be looking for?

I like it very subtley on my 2buss at 2:1, 30ms attack and auto release.. hitting only maybe 2-3 of GR.. BUT, it seems almost every other setting I try seems to make the entire mix smaller.. am I maybe missing?

[Sammy]

I find having it on the drumbuss and master is too much for me, generally. But what really rocks my world is having it on the kick+bassguitar subgroup...

[Methlab]

Originally Posted by CJWall

How do you guys set it for the drum buss? Just curious.. I do mostly extreme metal stuff and am still trying to find that sweet spot.. any suggestions? Also, how much GR should I typically be looking for?

I like it very subtley on my 2buss at 2:1, 30ms attack and auto release.. hitting only maybe 2-3 of GR.. BUT, it seems almost every other setting I try seems to make the entire mix smaller.. am I maybe missing?

no, a fast attack can tame your transients obviously. I know some guys like the 2 buss compressor attack set faster, but I do what you do, except i like 4:1. Besides that, im keeping the GR needle under 4.

I always play with the attack/release on that compressor each time i use it because every song is different. But for the 2 buss, I like the slow attack almost every time for what I am mixing.

[mjlaudio]

Originally Posted by Methlab

no, a fast attack can tame your transients obviously. I know some guys like the 2 buss compressor attack set faster, but I do what you do, except i like 4:1. Besides that, im keeping the GR needle under 4.

I always play with the attack/release on that compressor each time i use it because every song is different. But for the 2 buss, I like the slow attack almost every time for what I am mixing.

What are you guys using the outboard gear the console or the plugin? I have found they all have different metering for gr.

PS Cjwall....like your music.

[Mr.Silver]

I like to set the Xlogic at slow attack on the drums and then faster on the masterbuss 384.
But sometimes the other way around.
I always set the release on fast mixing Metal though.

God luck..

[Mr.Silver]

Methlab



Try some Eq after the compressor to recover some transient.

[Mr.Silver]

I use Api 550D by the way.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Prickstein

Hey guys

I'm giving the demo of the Waves SSL bundle a wirl and was wondering if you guys who get to use the real deal would put one across the parallel drum buss as well as the stereo mix buss or is that overkill.

Sure why not?

But that's taken into account that you are mixing in a studio with an SSL console and FXG 384 in the rack which is not always a common thing.

Originally Posted by Prickstein

Would you use something else for the drums if you were using it across the mix?

Sure...depends what's available.

Originally Posted by Prickstein

Seems to me like the drums would be getting a double dose, one in series and one in parallel.

And this a bad thing why?

Originally Posted by Prickstein

Oh yeah, and I guess it would be better to use in multi- mono mode so each side is not linked, yes?
Cheers,

Rick

It depends.

Try it and see.

But to give you a little heads up the original in the console is a stereo unit not a dual mono comp and how each side interacts with each other is part of the sound.

[Kenny M]

Didn't compare the Waves SSL with the real thing, but did compare it with an Alan Smart C1.

Took a Pro Tools mix that we had an Alan Smart C1 on the stereo buss and then threw a Waves SSL plug on the PT master fader and matched the C1 settings. To keep things equal we recorded the SSL mix out through the PT converters, through the C1 in bypass and then back through the PT converters so same number of conversions on both mixes. We matched levels very closely and recorded both mixes back in and then edited sections of both mixes together to form one mix that kept looping sections back and forth. All the region names were removed and once playback started looping sections, you really had no idea which mix you were listening to.

Thus far with a good 7 or 8 listeners including one person who would rather sell his children into slavery than use a plug in compressor, the Waves SSL mix has been picked 100% of the time as the better mix.

I'm not trying to say the SSL plug is better than the hardware just that it sounded better on this mix. It could be the case that maybe the plug in is actually closer to the SSL comp than the C1. At any rate, anyone that thinks the Waves SSL is crap is being very biased. It's definitely been improving my PT mixes.

And now I shall don my asbestos suit and prepare for the flames....

Kenny M.

[Steamy Williams]

Originally Posted by Kenny M

Didn't compare the Waves SSL with the real thing, but did compare it with an Alan Smart C1.

Took a Pro Tools mix that we had an Alan Smart C1 on the stereo buss and then threw a Waves SSL plug on the PT master fader and matched the C1 settings. To keep things equal we recorded the SSL mix out through the PT converters, through the C1 in bypass and then back through the PT converters so same number of conversions on both mixes. We matched levels very closely and recorded both mixes back in and then edited sections of both mixes together to form one mix that kept looping sections back and forth. All the region names were removed and once playback started looping sections, you really had no idea which mix you were listening to.

Thus far with a good 7 or 8 listeners including one person who would rather sell his children into slavery than use a plug in compressor, the Waves SSL mix has been picked 100% of the time as the better mix.

I'm not trying to say the SSL plug is better than the hardware just that it sounded better on this mix. It could be the case that maybe the plug in is actually closer to the SSL comp than the C1. At any rate, anyone that thinks the Waves SSL is crap is being very biased. It's definitely been improving my PT mixes.

And now I shall don my asbestos suit and prepare for the flames....

Kenny M.

Ouch!

[Methlab]

I have used the C2. But I was talking Waves SSL.

As for EQ after compression, it's good advice for some, but I try not to EQ my 2 buss. I have the 2 buss compressor on the mix the whole time. I just noticed that the Waves sounds nice with a slower attack on the stuff im working on.

The only Eqing I really do is a little bit of exciter up in the highs at the very end of a mix.

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by Kenny M

Didn't compare the Waves SSL with the real thing, but did compare it with an Alan Smart C1.

Took a Pro Tools mix that we had an Alan Smart C1 on the stereo buss and then threw a Waves SSL plug on the PT master fader and matched the C1 settings. To keep things equal we recorded the SSL mix out through the PT converters, through the C1 in bypass and then back through the PT converters so same number of conversions on both mixes. We matched levels very closely and recorded both mixes back in and then edited sections of both mixes together to form one mix that kept looping sections back and forth. All the region names were removed and once playback started looping sections, you really had no idea which mix you were listening to.

Thus far with a good 7 or 8 listeners including one person who would rather sell his children into slavery than use a plug in compressor, the Waves SSL mix has been picked 100% of the time as the better mix.

I'm not trying to say the SSL plug is better than the hardware just that it sounded better on this mix. It could be the case that maybe the plug in is actually closer to the SSL comp than the C1. At any rate, anyone that thinks the Waves SSL is crap is being very biased. It's definitely been improving my PT mixes.

And now I shall don my asbestos suit and prepare for the flames....

Kenny M.

What test did you perform to know that both thresholds where set to give similar gain reduction?

[marcan]

I often use the SSL plug on the Drum Bus and on the Master Bus. If it rocks, no problem with that.
I often prefer a slow attack (10 or 30) and the release depends on the track, but I don't like the auto release...
For GR, not more than 3-4db, and sometime I automate the treshold in order to keep the pumping under control.

[Jim vanBergen]

First, yes you can use SSL comps on both drum buss and L/R mix buss. It's great either way, and I've used it gently, as well as smashing, on the drum buss whereas I never go past 4:1 on the L/R buss, and that's pretty extreme for my buss mix. But for a Staind broadcast I used the G384 at a big jump for me-- 10:1 --on the drum buss and it was almost fabulous - "almost" because I could not get the kick as huge as it was on the original recording, though it sounded like a big rock kick, I was not satisfied. (Who ever is?) But that was one channel, and the producer loved it...so YMMV.

If there is a problem with the overall EQ, my position is that it should be fixed in the tracks, not the L/R buss.

Originally Posted by Kenny M

I'm not trying to say the SSL plug is better than the hardware just that it sounded better on this mix. It could be the case that maybe the plug in is actually closer to the SSL comp than the C1. At any rate, anyone that thinks the Waves SSL is crap is being very biased. It's definitely been improving my PT mixes.

And now I shall don my asbestos suit and prepare for the flames....

Kenny M.

Kenny, you're totally entitled to your opinion, and while I mix ITB and OTB, I understand your position. I have bigger overall issues with Waves, and I would tell anyone who CAN mix analog to use a well-designed analog comp. I really don't think ITB comps can compare as far as real GLUE, but, on the other hand, I think that Wade Goeke and the Chandler plug-in sounds pretty damn amazing...the best ITB comp I heard to date. I'm glad you like mixing with a buss comp, whether its hardware or software. As someone who spent many years mixing ITB with mediocre software compression (the 90s plug-ins really sucked!) , I don't want to go back to ITB, even for the BEST algorithms if I don't have to.

Everyone is entitled to our own opinion. No need for the asbestos suit. dfegad

Peace, bro.

JvB

[tsd]

Im another SSL 4000 G user that uses both mix and drum bus compression. Smart C1 on a drum sub group side chain and the good ol G on the mix! cant go wrong mate!!!

[robot gigante]

Originally Posted by Kenny M

Didn't compare the Waves SSL with the real thing, but did compare it with an Alan Smart C1.

Took a Pro Tools mix that we had an Alan Smart C1 on the stereo buss and then threw a Waves SSL plug on the PT master fader and matched the C1 settings. To keep things equal we recorded the SSL mix out through the PT converters, through the C1 in bypass and then back through the PT converters so same number of conversions on both mixes. We matched levels very closely and recorded both mixes back in and then edited sections of both mixes together to form one mix that kept looping sections back and forth. All the region names were removed and once playback started looping sections, you really had no idea which mix you were listening to.

Thus far with a good 7 or 8 listeners including one person who would rather sell his children into slavery than use a plug in compressor, the Waves SSL mix has been picked 100% of the time as the better mix.

I'm not trying to say the SSL plug is better than the hardware just that it sounded better on this mix. It could be the case that maybe the plug in is actually closer to the SSL comp than the C1. At any rate, anyone that thinks the Waves SSL is crap is being very biased. It's definitely been improving my PT mixes.

And now I shall don my asbestos suit and prepare for the flames....

Kenny M.

I don't mean to flame either, but I had utterly the opposite experience from what you are describing when I compared the Waves SSL to the Smart C2. Night and day difference, and the hardware won. I actually thought Digi's Impact plugin was pretty close to the Waves one fwiw (I tested that too).

I really don't have an answer to the original question since I don't have two of the units in question, but try it and see for yourself! If it sounds good, it is good. If not, well there you are. I do compress the drum bus pretty hard, but with a different comp.

If too much of the bass is being sucked out of the mix, then trigger that puppy's sidechain (assuming you are using the plugin) with a HPF'ed version of your mix and/or drum bus. Nowadays I do that all the time with the C2 since I'm sick of fighting what it does to the low end.

Oh, and mix with the bus compressor on from the start.

[StrykeBack]

If too much of the bass is being sucked out of the mix, then trigger that puppy's sidechain (assuming you are using the plugin) with a HPF'ed version of your mix and/or drum bus. Nowadays I do that all the time with the C2 since I'm sick of fighting what it does to the low end.

Side chaining is something i was never really taught. Where can i learn more about setting this technique up? i've got the waves SSL plugs and love them though i try not to crush anything with the comp.

U guys that are throwing this comp on a parallel drum buss, are u doing any compression on the individual drum channels as well? I know some guys do both and some wont touch their "original" sounds with another comp.

[Prickstein]

Originally Posted by StrykeBack

U guys that are throwing this comp on a parallel drum buss, are u doing any compression on the individual drum channels as well? I know some guys do both and some wont touch their "original" sounds with another comp.

I'd like to know peoples thoughts on this too

[robot gigante]

Originally Posted by StrykeBack

Side chaining is something i was never really taught. Where can i learn more about setting this technique up? i've got the waves SSL plugs and love them though i try not to crush anything with the comp.

It's simple really.

I'm not sure what software you are using so I can't be too specific, but basically when you pull up the plugin window for the compressor it should have an option that lets you key it or sidechain it. When you set it to be sidechained it will react based on what you sidechain it with or key it with.

So to try this out, stick the compressor plugin on the drum bus. Now make a duplicate of the drum bus (take the comp plugin off the duplicate) with the same tracks feeding it but route the outputs of the duplicate bus to the inputs of the sidechain key in the plugin window of the comp on the regualr drum bus. How to route it maybe depends on your software, so look up in the manual or user's guide. You could probably just set the outs of the duplicate bus to an unused aux track and the sidechain input in the comp plugin window to the same. Now the compressor will be reacting to the audio fed to it by the duplicate bus and not the audio of the bus it's on.

So to make the compressor not react so much to the low frequencies you just put a HPF (try 6db/oct at 80hz, to start, then experiment) on the duplicate bus (which is controlling the action of the compressor). Since there is a lot of energy in the lows, before the compressor would clamp down harder whenever the bass or kick would hit, which could choke it. With the HPF in it doesn't, so it leaves the low end more intact.

Hope that helps.

[SUPADUPA]

I compared the AS C2 with the waves SSL bus compressor also ..

and didn't think there was much in it ... the C2 had a little more grit & smack ..

but the waves SSL is very usable .... and if you can't afford a rack of C2's ...

it has " that " sound ..... but it is not the real thing ...

[CJWall]

Originally Posted by mjlaudio

What are you guys using the outboard gear the console or the plugin? I have found they all have different metering for gr.

PS Cjwall....like your music.

thanks man!

Charlie

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Prickstein

Hey guys
I'm giving the demo of the Waves SSL bundle a wirl and was wondering if you guys who get to use the real deal would put one across the parallel drum buss as well as the stereo mix buss or is that overkill.
Would you use something else for the drums if you were using it across the mix?
Seems to me like the drums would be getting a double dose, one in series and one in parallel.
Rick

No rules whatsoever man..
whatever sounds good for the tune
One combo may sound like God on one tune and on another..
thats why its so nice to have the different tools at our disposal
i prefer hardware..
but if i had too choose between plugs i'd probably do the URS or Duende box ..
the URS stuff sounded pretty much the same to me as the Waves demo anyways.
no great "Sonic Revelation" there
..So thankfully, Wup free here.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by SUPADUPA

it has " that " sound ..... but it is not the real thing ...

very (gear)slutzy expression

[Jim vanBergen]

I second Roundbadge: "Whatever sounds good."

Originally Posted by StrykeBack

U guys that are throwing this comp on a parallel drum buss, are u doing any compression on the individual drum channels as well? I know some guys do both and some wont touch their "original" sounsureds with another comp.

I know some people who are "purists", and don't want a comp on the snare or kick track, then instead of even trying to make it hold together when they hear something they don't like they replace the whole track with a crushed sample. Sickening.

I do whatever the track needs. If there is full snare, rimshots, or sidestick, you have to do a lot of movement. if everything is the same drum dynamic (think Green Day) then while I don't immediately NEED compression as the hits are all close to the same level, I do WANT compression on the kick, snare top, hat, and tom group channels. But I like to listen to the option, and I start with the drum buss comp before I put in any channel comps unless I know the track is going to need channel compression FIRST before I hear tracks I think will fold together into a nice mix. Does that make ANY sense???

One drummer I ended up losing the buss comp and squashing the hell out of every channel, and moved the buss comp to a stereo OH pair. Gotta do whatever it takes, man.

[RusRant]

I'll comp the drums, the drum buss, the mix buss or where ever else it sounds good. Unless it doesn't sound good. Then of course I wouldn't. Or maybe a little. Whatever works.

[Prickstein]

I had a little experiment last night using it as a buss comp for distorted guitars and sneaking it back in with a little Fulltec EQ. Wow, lil sucker sure adds some punch.