Vocal editing

[TLMUSIC]

I am a new producer working on my first professional tracks - i was just wondering how you guys go about editing vocals..? Im working on a pop tune with around 12 tracks of vocals (including Bv's / harmonies) with 2 different singers. Im tuning in melodyne. Just wondering how you guys go about editing...do you literally cut and move about words to get them spot on, do you tune everuything???


Thanks for any help!!

[Thumper]

You have the talent re-sing it until it's right. Or at least the timing. Tuning can be done, and can kinda sound natural. You can never edit the timing to sound natural.

There are people out there, that all they do is Pro Tools editing. These people can work magic on a lot of bad takes.

But... First off, just have the talent re-sing it.

[gearsux]

if the timing is in need of some help one of my secret weapons is Vocaline from syncroarts.com. especially in rock or pop, if the take is not perfect and having the singer come back is not an option (which is the best case) , i will sing the part myself, get it right timing wise, then use vocaline to take the original singers vocals and sync them up with mine. it sounds great and is not hard to use. also vocaline works great on BV's and other vocal tracks that are used for layers. take one BV track that has good timing and sync the other tracks to it. i use the project version of vocaline i dont know about the newer pro version (im sure its great), but it was definetly a great investment, as Thumper said, trying to edit timing always comes out weird. hope this helps,
remember,
gearsux

[PlatinumSamples]

EM did an article on this topic a few months ago... I believe the article (where I'm quoted) is on their website.

Link

Rail

[slaves666]

Timing is not that hard to fix.....depending on how much is out.....I nudge whole lines that have character but are rushed all the time. Autotune can make pitches better, as long as its within a few notes and little vibrato.

[PRobb]

If you've got great singers who know how to phrase and blend, get out of the way and let the singers sing.

If the singers suck, do what you have to do the polish the turd up real shiny. Or get better singers.

[rwhitney]

Yeah, cut and slide. Also use Vocalign. Waves makes a cool "de-breath" plugin that will reduce breaths, which tend to get overwhelming in multiple backgrounds. I usually put groups of things on sub faders after editing and eq and compress them together for a more unified sound. Also sharing the group aux for reverb/delay. That is if they don't need a lot of individualized effects. obviously don't do that with lead.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by PlatinumSamples

EM did an article on this topic a few months ago... I believe the article (where I'm quoted) is on their website.

Link

Rail

I remember reading that -- some great ideas in that artice. Thanks to all.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Thumper

You can never edit the timing to sound natural.

sure i can. silly rabbit!


gregoire
del
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[mindglow]

I often find it more convenient to make small adjustments to vocal takes during tracking if the take is good but not exactly in sync with another vocal dub. Why record the same thing over and over again if the only thing wrong with the take is that it is not in perfect sync with another vocal take? I feel that the workflow get so much smoother that way and from experience the singers seem to like it.

Vocals are often very easy to edit with some cut and paste (and crossfade if needed). Syllables are easy to distinguish graphically and I just go from there and try to align them with the rest of the tracks.

The comment about getting better singers is pretty funny. Ok if you are recording tracks for yourself where you hire all the musicians and can pick them as you please. I don't think you would become a popular engineer if you said things like "Hello Rockband, you need to get another singer because the one you have now do sound good, but he is unable to nail harmonies in exact sync with the lead vocals."

[picksail]

Its common to edit the vocals so that they actually sound MORE natural.

This is the point, afterall.

[toolskid]

Originally Posted by Thumper

You can never edit the timing to sound natural.

yes you can..

and as stewart says, even better than before!!

A good mate of mine once said: Sometimes its amazing how much processing you need to do to something to make it sound 'natural'

[Jim vanBergen]

Sad but true. I hear WAY more edits on top 10 songs than I hear good solid tracks.

Even some of my favorite songs have hard vocal edits that should have been gently smoothed... but I have also been hired to "comp" vocal tracks in PT, because I have been told I make "a seamless take" from a dozen takes. Doesn't ever sound seamless to ME, but hey... put it in the mix, and seams dissapear...mostly. And I just do what I'm hired to do, ya know?

[TLMUSIC]

Thanks for the help so far - my main problem is that coz i have two vocalists and no chance to re-record, some of the takes are a little out of sync so thats what im trying to tidy up and get sounding tight ... i only have melodyne tho...maybe i should have a look at vocalign.

[Lee Knight]

The key to any and all of this stuff is how good is your taste? You can VocalAlign something in a good way... and a bad way. Sometimes the lack of total sync between 2 singers is cool and other times not. The temptaion however, is to get lazy and sync the 2 singers up. But now you've lost the cool out of sync stuff as well. So it comes down to taste. To know when it's cool, and when it's not. Just like AutoTune. Tune a whole phrase on stun and it sucks. Tune the tail of a cool phrase that got a little too far out of bounds and you've saved the day.