What's that DIY "stereo widener" DAW trick?

**Blast9** · 17th October 2006

Is it:

3 faders

L

R

Inverted L or R panned in the middle

OR

3 faders

L

R

Inverted summed mono signal of both L & R panned down the middle

OR

"Neither --- you're confused"

e-cue · 17th October 2006

Are you trying to describe M-S processing?

**Blast9** · 17th October 2006

Not sure...

Someone once told me you could widen stereo BVs, atmospheric tracks or stereo delays by doing this trick.

All I remember is its something to do with adding a little bit of the inverted signal from the 3rd channel and the phase cancellation makes the side information jump out.

Thumper · 17th October 2006

Careful.....

Anything you do with inverting phase fvcks up the mix if for some reason it's made mono.

Just mix the track wide in the first place, and you'll be ok. Double track guitars/vocals. Stereo mic what needs it...

You can't fix stuff "after the mix" in this case....

**Blast9** · 17th October 2006

You're absolutely right...

I don't intend to do it with main tracks, just curious and wanna try some psycho-acoustic "wrap-around your head moments" with ambience etc. The plug-ins I have aren't doing it for me.

The guy that told me used it to widen vocals, and said it cancelled itself out in mono, so wouldn't affect the main elements of the mix.

Thumper · 18th October 2006

Well, what the dude was probably talking about, was just to mult the track that you want "widened" and flip one's polarity. Hard pan them left and right. Make sure that they're the same volume. Bam, instant stuff coming at you from your extreem left and right.

I'm not going to lie and say that I've never done it... Works cool with auxillary percussion (bongos, congas...)

sharpeleven · 18th October 2006

that basically means that you loose your percussion 100% in mono.....

Thumper · 18th October 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharpeleven

that basically means that you loose your percussion 100% in mono.....

Read my other post, buddy.

dougb415 · 18th October 2006

I thought the trick was to copy the mono track to a stereo track and put a 20ms delay on either the left or right track

Labs · 18th October 2006

I put a live recording of ****** on one channel and the sound of e-cue waking up next to a tranny in the other. This is what came out when I performed the M/S mic-DAW widener technique..

Crash · 18th October 2006

I lifted this straight off of DOT's (Dan Richards) Studio Forums site.

This is not really for a whole mix, but more for a few tracks like bkg vocals or guitars.

In this case it's for vocals.

1. Mix your chorus vocals to a pair of L R stereo tracks
2. Copy that stereo pair to a second pair of L R stereo tracks.
3. Take the second pair and reverse the phase on them.
4. Then on the second pair reverse the panning. Make L to R, and R to L.

Set the first stereo pair up in your mix. And then start bringing up the second pair - which has been phase reversed and pan reversed. As you turn up the volume of the second pair you'll hear the image go very wide. You'll get to a point as you increase volume that it will start to be less wide as you begin to introduce too much phase cancellation from the second track. At that point, just back off on the volume of the second track until you hear that it's at its widest.

Try it. You'll be surprised. It's an old trick. : )

Dan Richards

**Blast9** · 19th October 2006

Cheers Crash --- That's exactly what I was looking for.

PS LOL @ Labs

max cooper · 19th October 2006

If you want the whole mix to sound wider, use M/S to get a left, center and right component, then add a little euphonic distortion to the side components.

Bob Ross · 19th October 2006

Use the Search function to find the post where I explained how the Modulation Sciences StereoMaxx works; essentially extracting the Difference component, delaying it by 15-20ms, splitting it into hard-panned + and - (polarity inverted) components, & mixing that back into your signal.

Okay, don't bother searching, I just explained it again.

You can fairly easily cobble together this technique in your DAW (or, if you're inventive & have a lot of patchcords, in your analog desk).

SoundUniverse · 19th October 2006

Here's one:

17th October 2006	#1
Blast9 Moderator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Posts: 4,490 Thread Starter	What's that DIY "stereo widener" DAW trick? Is it: 3 faders L R Inverted L or R panned in the middle OR 3 faders L R Inverted summed mono signal of both L & R panned down the middle OR "Neither --- you're confused" __________________ :: New Album "Rooms" out now http://www.andymitchellmusic.com :: twitter > http://twitter.com/mitchellmusic - http://www.twitter.com/theyardbirds

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17th October 2006	#2
e-cue Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 4,061	Are you trying to describe M-S processing?

17th October 2006	#4
Thumper Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 972	Careful..... Anything you do with inverting phase fvcks up the mix if for some reason it's made mono. Just mix the track wide in the first place, and you'll be ok. Double track guitars/vocals. Stereo mic what needs it... You can't fix stuff "after the mix" in this case....

18th October 2006	#6
Thumper Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 972	Well, what the dude was probably talking about, was just to mult the track that you want "widened" and flip one's polarity. Hard pan them left and right. Make sure that they're the same volume. Bam, instant stuff coming at you from your extreem left and right. I'm not going to lie and say that I've never done it... Works cool with auxillary percussion (bongos, congas...)

18th October 2006	#7
sharpeleven Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: United States of North-America Posts: 132	that basically means that you loose your percussion 100% in mono.....

18th October 2006	#9
dougb415 Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Huntsville AL Posts: 823	I thought the trick was to copy the mono track to a stereo track and put a 20ms delay on either the left or right track

18th October 2006	#11
Crash Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Antonio Texas Posts: 1,722	I lifted this straight off of DOT's (Dan Richards) Studio Forums site. This is not really for a whole mix, but more for a few tracks like bkg vocals or guitars. In this case it's for vocals. 1. Mix your chorus vocals to a pair of L R stereo tracks 2. Copy that stereo pair to a second pair of L R stereo tracks. 3. Take the second pair and reverse the phase on them. 4. Then on the second pair reverse the panning. Make L to R, and R to L. Set the first stereo pair up in your mix. And then start bringing up the second pair - which has been phase reversed and pan reversed. As you turn up the volume of the second pair you'll hear the image go very wide. You'll get to a point as you increase volume that it will start to be less wide as you begin to introduce too much phase cancellation from the second track. At that point, just back off on the volume of the second track until you hear that it's at its widest. Try it. You'll be surprised. It's an old trick. : ) Dan Richards

19th October 2006	#12
Blast9 Moderator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Posts: 4,490 Thread Starter	Cheers Crash --- That's exactly what I was looking for. PS LOL @ Labs

19th October 2006	#13
max cooper Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: tx Posts: 8,802	If you want the whole mix to sound wider, use M/S to get a left, center and right component, then add a little euphonic distortion to the side components.

19th October 2006	#14
Bob Ross Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 2,560	Use the Search function to find the post where I explained how the Modulation Sciences StereoMaxx works; essentially extracting the Difference component, delaying it by 15-20ms, splitting it into hard-panned + and - (polarity inverted) components, & mixing that back into your signal. Okay, don't bother searching, I just explained it again. You can fairly easily cobble together this technique in your DAW (or, if you're inventive & have a lot of patchcords, in your analog desk).

19th October 2006	#15
SoundUniverse Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: seattle,wa Posts: 513	Here's one: