Recording the bealtes...my conclusion!

[Mattsson]

It just came to my mind, after been reading "Recording the Beatles"...

...the biggest part of their recordings were just done using one single type of mic pre, 4 different main pieces of outboard gear and around 5-6 different main microphones. A very nice little collection of gear, making up a very strong, great sounding and simple sound chain.

So my conclusion is...find one type of mic pre (or desk that sounds amazing), get a few great sounding pieces of outboard gear and a small selection of great sounding mics.

And you're ready to start focusing on making some good music!

Too many options and choices just takes away that focus I think....

Peace,

Rob

[orange]

I agree they had less options but they did work very hard developing new techniques to give different sounds, so I think it's a bit simplistic to say they only had 1 pre, 5 mics and 5 bits of outboard.

Having said that, I think it's true to say that having too many options can stifle creativity.

[byk]

Originally Posted by Mattsson

I...the biggest part of their recordings were just done using one single type of mic pre, 4 different main pieces of outboard gear and around 5-6 different main microphones.

Hi


Could you please say which were these?

Thanks,


byk

[minister]

Originally Posted by byk

Could you please say which were these?

there is an unbelievable detailed response to this when you follow this link and get what's pitched.

http://recordingthebeatles.com/

[Wes Kuhnley]

I am a firm believer in the simple fact that the less options you give yourself in the studio, the more creative you have to be, and the more you can concentrate on the music.

[byk]

Originally Posted by minister

there is an unbelievable detailed response to this when you follow this link and get what's pitched.

http://recordingthebeatles.com/

I don't want an "unbelievable detailed response", I just want to know which were these units.

I understand that you want to support a book that has just been released, and I am fine with that.

However the information that I ask is pretty general and possibly well know to lots of pleople here (before the book I mean).

Thanks.


byk

[Mattsson]

Main mics:

Neumann U47
Neumann U48
STC 4038
STC 4033
AKG D19c
AKG D20
AKG C12

Outboard gear:

Fairchild 660 (limiter)
EMI RS114 (Limiter)
Altec RS124 (compressor)
EMI RS127 (Presence Box)

Main Console: REDD 51 (with REDD 47 preamps)

/R

[songman]

Originally Posted by Mattsson

It just came to my mind, after been reading "Recording the Beatles"...

...the biggest part of their recordings were just done using one single type of mic pre, 4 different main pieces of outboard gear and around 5-6 different main microphones. A very nice little collection of gear, making up a very strong, great sounding and simple sound chain.

So my conclusion is...find one type of mic pre (or desk that sounds amazing), get a few great sounding pieces of outboard gear and a small selection of great sounding mics.

And you're ready to start focusing on making some good music!

Too many options and choices just takes away that focus I think....

Peace,

Rob

Yes, and then most importantly, WAIT for someone with just 10% of the genius of the Beatles to come by, AND, send everyone else walking. It would certainly avoid the crap we have to listen to these days

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by songman

WAIT for someone with just 10% of the genius of the Beatles to come by...

"Hello, Ringo?"

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by Mattsson

Too many options and choices just takes away that focus I think....

Peace,

Rob

good point..I think there may be a lot of truth in that statement. Limitations breed creation..

[skip bitmin]

Originally Posted by Mattsson

It just came to my mind, after been reading "Recording the Beatles"...

...the biggest part of their recordings were just done using one single type of mic pre, 4 different main pieces of outboard gear and around 5-6 different main microphones. A very nice little collection of gear, making up a very strong, great sounding and simple sound chain.

So my conclusion is...find one type of mic pre (or desk that sounds amazing), get a few great sounding pieces of outboard gear and a small selection of great sounding mics.

And you're ready to start focusing on making some good music!

Too many options and choices just takes away that focus I think....

Peace,

Rob

I agree .I also agree with the songman 100%

[Chris Parsons]

How can anyone possably think that the magic that comes out on a Beatles album has ANYTHING to do with the gear?

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Chris Parsons

How can anyone possably think that the magic that comes out on a Beatles album has ANYTHING to do with the gear?

That's my thinking too.

Rather consider the fact that in the Sinatra-era we had performers that performed, engineers that engineered,producers that produced and songwriters that wrote songs....pretty much exclusively.

The Beatles were pioneers in the way that they wrote their own material and performed on their records. But there was still a pretty clear distribution of tasks and in the best cases where real talents made up such a team this made for incredible recordings. Remember that George Martin was a 'staff producer' provided by the record label and working with in-house engineers. Though it surely helped that all the parties involved were pretty much geniuses.

An engineer's creativity surely isn't hindered by the fact that he's got a thousand mics (Bruce Swedien?) or 200 guitars amps. Any good craftsman will chose a set of tools and add to them or change them at some point.

But a songwriter's creativity MIGHT be hindered if he suddendly feels that he has to build a home studio and be an engineer. There's only so much time and it's up to you to know whether a 'new field of activity' is adding to your spectrum or diffusing it.

[Labs]

You missspelled the beatles man! THE BEATLES!! How could you?

I sentence you to drinking roasted animal feces for eternity..

Kopi Luwak

[ozraves]

If you've got a quality mic collection with some carefully selected dynamics, ribbons and condensers (nothing over $1,000 even), then you can be fully tooled to make some wonderful recordings. I could get by with seven or eight mic models without ever feeling I was missing something.

[mwagener]

If you know what you are are doing, you can't have too much gear. If you had ten different hammers, would it slow you down when you wanted to put a nail in a piece of wood? You have to learn your tools on your own time, not when a creative process is going on in the studio. On the other hand knowing which of ten different available mic pres would be best for the job, will extremely increase your productivity and make the end result better. I wouldn't want to have to improvise during a session because I don't have the right tools for the job, it brings the creative flow to a halt. Our job is to "record" the creative performance of the artist in the best possible way, so, we need the best possible tools.

So, send me all your extra gear which just slows you down and takes away from your creativity, and I'll send you a 12 channel Mackie and a SM57 in return

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by songman

Yes, and then most importantly, WAIT for someone with just 10% of the genius of the Beatles to come by, AND, send everyone else walking. It would certainly avoid the crap we have to listen to these days

thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

... and then use your best gear on them and not protools to create what they can't.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by mwagener

So, send me all your extra gear which just slows you down and takes away from your creativity, and I'll send you a 12 channel Mackie and a SM57 in return

And if it was The Beatles in front of that Mackie and SM57 the record would still be number one and the song would still be played 40 years later.


Really a good point Michael makes about not trying to learn gear while in production. There is so much software in my room right now that the manuals fill a closet. I know that I still don't know all there is to know about all the plug ins, virtual instruments, etc, that I use daily, and it scares me, because there just aren't enough hours in the day to read it all, practice it all, and then make a living. We need 48 hour days.

TH

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Labs

You missspelled the beatles man! THE BEATLES!! How could you? I sentence you to drinking roasted animal feces for eternity..

I DID mean THE BEATLES, I surely wasn't talking about the Fab Four, you wisecrack!!!!


Check this out (make sure you don't have anything spillable near your computer) :

[Cojo]

Originally Posted by mwagener

So, send me all your extra gear which just slows you down and takes away from your creativity, and I'll send you a 12 channel Mackie and a SM57 in return

Alesis 3630 comming your way!

[Mattsson]

Thanx for your responses!

First of all, all I was saying is that one doesn't need all that "which preamp should I use for the snare, and which preamps do you use for toms" bullshit. If you have a few "golden pieces" that sound amazing and creates an amazing chain there is no need for all this gearslut paranoia.

But of course as you Waegner said, this is more an issue among home studio owners I guess. But still I feel that good equipments sounds good on most sources...they might lead to different outcomes, but it will still sound good. And then you can put he focus on the music.

Because yeah, sure, it was the music that made the Beatles and not the gear. But still I believe that there is something with the sound of those recordings which contributes to it all. When I first fell in love with their music it was actually the sound of Pauls bass and Ringos drums that caught my attention.

So sure, the songs and energy would still be there if The Beatles would have recorded with a couple of SM57's through an digi002 straight into LE. But the sound of those recordings (which was a result of the audio chain) sure contribted to make them sound even more interesting.

But without that song writing, those arrangments and the performance...of course there would be nothing left!

So it is wrong to say that the gear did not have any importance at all...at least it keeps on fascinating some.

/R

ps. And Waegner, I would never choose to record through a Mackie desk...I would pick my one and only preamp more carefully than that ds.

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by Mattsson

Thanx for your responses!

First of all, all I was saying is that one doesn't need all that "which preamp should I use for the snare, and which preamps do you use for toms" bullshit. If you have a few "golden pieces" that sound amazing and creates an amazing chain there is no need for all this gearslut paranoia.

But of course as you Waegner said, this is more an issue among home studio owners I guess. But still I feel that good equipments sounds good on most sources...they might lead to different outcomes, but it will still sound good. And then you can put he focus on the music.

Because yeah, sure, it was the music that made the Beatles and not the gear. But still I believe that there is something with the sound of those recordings which contributes to it all. When I first fell in love with their music it was actually the sound of Pauls bass and Ringos drums that caught my attention.

So sure, the songs and energy would still be there if The Beatles would have recorded with a couple of SM57's through an digi002 straight into LE. But the sound of those recordings (which was a result of the audio chain) sure contribted to make them sound even more interesting.

But without that song writing, those arrangments and the performance...of course there would be nothing left!

So it is wrong to say that the gear did not have any importance at all...at least it keeps on fascinating some.

/R

ps. And Waegner, I would never choose to record through a Mackie desk...I would pick my one and only preamp more carefully than that ds.

Agree 100%. I was just commenting on people saying that too much gear takes away from creativity.

[kats]

Well if you guys think THE BEATLES were genius', then think about this.

It was THE BEATLES who were demanding new sounds, effects, and techniques to be used on their recordings. So having said that:

How can anyone possably think that the magic that comes out on a Beatles album has ANYTHING to do with the gear?

My answer would be that since THE BEATLES felt that there was an impact, who am I to argue.

Anyhow, I'm surprised that many here don't hear the sonic painting these guys created in the studio and how integral that was to their songs.

I really don't think alot of this material would have the weight and impact it did if it was just recorded "straight".

[crypticglobe]

lol... One thing I would like to add is...

While the work on those Beatles records was astounding for it's time... and STILL stands up quite well to the test of time...

Hand off a record that sounds like that to the label on the next band you produce... and unless it's the living members of the Beatles TRYING to do a retro type throwback record... they will ask you to recut it (or fire you and hire someone else to produce it).

I could be wrong.... but I don't think so. The standard is different now.

We have a come along way and the POTENTIAL of how good a record can sound has increased dramatically. No reason to limit oneself unless that just happens to be your own style.... and there is nothing wrong with that... it's art. Lot's of people still shoot (and make money off of) great black and white photos developed in a darkroom... .... but I prefer to take advantage of whatever technology is available.... just as Sir George Martin and the Beatles did in their time.

jmtc...

[lucey]

What makes any music great happens before the gear ... period. Once you get that, the tools we use are still huge .... but in a different way.


This whole era of fix-in-the-software is one thing we could do without ... but that's technology for you, always making moral dilemmas, and laziness.

[kats]

Lucey, I'm going to dissagree somewhat....but I think you might agree anyhow.

Music isn't "just music". It is written for an instrument and medium as well as an arrangement that will be dictated somewhat by the medium.

By "mid-carreer" THE BEATLES music was written with the gear/technology in mind. It was used to create great songs.

This is why we when we hear Beatles "musak" in elevators, alot of it isn't very good. It has been reduced in many cases to a simple melody that wouldn't really turn heads.

So I would argue that the studio, gear, sonics as well as the limitations imposed or the possiblities it offered was as an integral part of the song as the melody & rythm.

The timber and sounds of notes are just as important as the notes itself. They convey emotion. In the studio, we don't nessecarily have a brass, string, woodwind, and percussion sections to convey these nuances that the great symphonies relied on so heavily. But we do have eq, dynamics, and effects - each of which impart their own sonic character that can be used to enhance the emotion of the note.

[lucey]

Hey I'm all about gear and all about tone! I pay way more for it that I could get by with. Every 5% counts. But if it's not happening in the room, it's empty sound with lots of spice.

Why is some modern music compressed so much? To make it seem powerful. Why is software editing so popular? Because it makes laziness an acceptable way to record music. And that hurts music.




The Beatles are not my fave band but they put it into the mics. That's what I got from RTB.

We could all use a fresh dose of that thought, everyday. And THEN use the gear.

[Trancetones]

Originally Posted by max cooper

"Hello, Ringo?"

You should rent that Beatles documentary that came out a few years ago and listen to what George Martin had to say about Ringo. Bottom line: Ringo has rock solid time and rarely made mistakes. Sure he's no Neil Peart, but he was truly a pro drummer. If he's good enough for George Martin he's good enough for me.

[kats]

But if it's not happening in the room, it's empty sound with lots of spice.

Yeah but what makes it happen in the room? You think Sin City by AC/DC would be a good song acoustically? I doubt it. But throw an SG and a JTM45 and it's an ass-kicker

Ok, that's not recording gear - but it's an admittion that gear and sound can make or break a song - so why not include the next item in the chain? Actually I don't think that song would have ever been written if there were no such thing as electric guitars, and to that end gear and sounds also inspire music.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Trancetones

You should rent that Beatles documentary that came out a few years ago and listen to what George Martin had to say about Ringo. Bottom line: Ringo has rock solid time and rarely made mistakes. Sure he's no Neil Peart, but he was truly a pro drummer. If he's good enough for George Martin he's good enough for me.

And in all ways he was 10,000 times the better drummer for the Beatles than Neil Peart. Ringo does not get the respect he should. He was exactly the drummer that band called for, a "better" drummer would not have worked as well.

Ringo was just right he was part of the magical chemistry they had as a group.