Would LOVE some pointers/advice on this song - MP3 enclosed

Benmrx · 14th October 2006, 09:34 PM

For anyone that wants to take the time, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this tune.

Be warned this has no vocals (yet......because I don't sing) and some spots are REALLY open. Also this tune is not pop/rock at all (at least I don't think so), it's pretty mellow, and not very up-beat. I've been listening to the oldies station alot

So anyone here that only listens to heavy punchy drums, blazing guitars, ect......you'll probably hate it.

All that aside, here's little info.

The production is all me. I wrote, played, recorded, mixed and mastered everything. However, being the only ears involved in every aspect, I have a hard time seeing the forrest throught the trees.

Drums were recorded with a pair of AT 4033's
Guitar Cab mic'd with a PPA Ribbon + SM81
Anything else was recorded with a PPA Tube Mic set on Omni.

Mic Pre's were all Quad Eight MM61 modules except the Organ which went through a Langevin DVC.

Tracked straight to PTLE through a Frontier Designs Tango24

I wanted to try and get away from using a standard bass, so there really isn't much, except for the organ producing a few bassy notes in the verses.

A couple of specific questions I have is:

1. What type of buss compressor would you use on this tune (hard to tell without vocals I guess.....but I'm hoping to get a girl I know to write/sing something over this, and her vocals are also very mellow)

2. What would you do to get the bass filled out as much as possible (considering there really isn't any bass)

3. What do you think of the actual arrangement (regardless of the mix)? Because I'm pretty new to the idea of writing actual "songs".

So besides anything above, what pointers might you have?

BTW, if this is the wrong forum, please feel free to move it.

zkaudio · 15th October 2006, 12:19 AM

I'm only like 10 seconds in, but feel like the decay on the guitar could be even longer/more open... drums sound wider than guitars in a weird way **(i'm in my office though, crap speakers)

u b k · 15th October 2006, 08:37 AM

i like this song, it's off the beaten track but is tasteful.

it really needs bass. i'd ease back on the drums in the sparser sections, darken 'em up a bit. which compressor to use depends on my goal. stay open and warm? stc8. bigger on bottom and softer up top? 2500. thick and heavy? 2254, which would do to the drums what i want done anyway.

it's a cool mood piece, it could benefit from some seriously deep plate and/or spring verbs and washy, dubby echoes. those would not only deepen and enhance the mood, they would place it more in the ethos and time frame you seem to be evoking.

but aside from all the above, what i really want to hear that i'm not is... swing. if you're listening to the oldies station, you're missing the fact that every one of those old songs swings, some of them swing a LOT. work on your groove more than your production, the payoff is bigger.

gregoire
del
ubk
.

Benmrx · 15th October 2006, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u b i k

i like this song, it's off the beaten track but is tasteful.

it really needs bass. i'd ease back on the drums in the sparser sections, darken 'em up a bit. which compressor to use depends on my goal. stay open and warm? stc8. bigger on bottom and softer up top? 2500. thick and heavy? 2254, which would do to the drums what i want done anyway.

it's a cool mood piece, it could benefit from some seriously deep plate and/or spring verbs and washy, dubby echoes. those would not only deepen and enhance the mood, they would place it more in the ethos and time frame you seem to be evoking.

but aside from all the above, what i really want to hear that i'm not is... swing. if you're listening to the oldies station, you're missing the fact that every one of those old songs swings, some of them swing a LOT. work on your groove more than your production, the payoff is bigger.

gregoire
del
ubk
.

U B I K: Awsome, I was hoping you would chime in, as I tend to agree with your views.

I like the idea of darkening the drums up a bit in the sparse sections (verses').

As for bass, I have a feeling I'll end throwing something really simple on it, maybe just to accent the kick drum.

As for your input on which 2buss. I would lean towards the 2500 or 2254 based on your descriptions.

As far as any dubby echoes, or any serious verbage, I wanted to wait and see if anything happens with vocals. If it ends up being an instrumental piece, I'll probably end up adding a layer or two of misc. tuned effects to fill in the spaces. And trust me....I love me some huge spacey, organic echoes. Always so much fun to record that kind of stuff. For me anyways.

And the big one......swing. Most likely I'll end up getting a better drummer to lay something down if I end up getting vocals on this. I'm not a very good drummer, and trust me......beat detective WAS needed. I mainly try and be a good enough drummer to write a part.

Also, if I end up actually putting this song together for real (tracking and mixing off tape) I'll definately work with the click some more. Speed it up a bit at the chorus', and maybe a slight slow down for the last measure.

Quote:

it's a cool mood piece

Thanks!

Quote:

zkaudio: drums sound wider than guitars in a weird way

hmmmm....maybe the drums should be mono!! Me like!

picksail · 15th October 2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benmrx

A couple of specific questions I have is:

1. What type of buss compressor would you use on this tune (hard to tell without vocals I guess.....but I'm hoping to get a girl I know to write/sing something over this, and her vocals are also very mellow)

I guess it depends upon how the song develops with the vocals. I could see how a 33609 would be useful though.

2. What would you do to get the bass filled out as much as possible (considering there really isn't any bass)

If you have the Waves RenBass, you can use it to add a bit at 40hz, provided that you have a monitoring system that will allow you to accuratley monitor this tenacious frequency down there in the nether region. I usually roll off the bass at 40Hz then add it back in with the RenBass. Just move the frequency around until you find the area where the bass feels more musical. Sometimes it's 40,53,64,78,84,92Hz. It just depends. Definitely go with your gut, or rather your bowels on this one.

3. What do you think of the actual arrangement (regardless of the mix)? Because I'm pretty new to the idea of writing actual "songs".

I like it. It's not easy to offer criticism on a fully autonomous piece of art. This isn't typical pop music, which is easily and overtly open to criticism.

So besides anything above, what pointers might you have?

Hard to tell on a PowerBook. Haha!!! But it sounds cool to me

Nice work.

MATTI · 15th October 2006, 10:16 AM

I like this, don`t over do it.
Cheers
Matti

Benmrx · 15th October 2006, 10:33 AM

Awsome!!

This is kinda giving me a slight ego boost here, and pushing me in the direction of re-doing this song to tape once I've got (hopefully) some vocals to go on. And really taking the time to get it right, bring in session players, rent a 2buss comp, etc.

I LOVE tracking, mixing off tape, but only if it's either a simple arrangement, or some serious pre-production has taken place.

Thanks for all the kind words everyone. But also, feel free to bash away if something just seems off in an unpleasant way.

BTW, I'm surprised (this being gearslutz and all) that no one has mentioned the fact that the guitar has such a loud noise floor. Although I really don't mind.

MattiMattMatt · 15th October 2006, 08:54 PM

OK. I'm listening to it now.

What I love:

The open guitar, bass stuff, and that little beeping sound that comes in every now and then. Real trippy. Great vibe. Easilly welcomes a vocal track.

What I hate:

the keyboard chords that do one of either 2 things, clash with the underlying guitar chords, or exactly mirror them. If you want a pad, I'd make it more of an unobtrusive pad sound so it doesn't kill the guitar vibe, and would choose better notes so that they were independent (not just aping the guitar) but didn't sound "wrong." It's easy to picture your hand plunking down on those keyboard notes, and they sound like they were chosen because they were comfortable to play rather than they were what your ear really wants to hear.

Yesterday I was working on something and one measure wasn't quite right. It came out of my hands but bothered my ears. Today I was able to get my hands to follow my ears rather than vice versa. I corrected that measure, and then beat myself up for it (I should have known that THOSE were the notes I really wanted yesterday. On retrospect, today, it seems obvious to me, but yesterday I followed my hands instead of my head. On those keyboard parts, it sounds like you're falling into the same trap.)

-matt

Benmrx · 15th October 2006, 09:41 PM

MattiMattMatt

If your talking about the sound that comes in on it's own, sort of a half measure before the chorus', it was really difficult because that instrument is a kids sqeeze box kind of thing, and really doesn't have too many notes to choose from, but I really like the tone.

Maybe I'll try and pitch it up or down till it fits better.

BTW, that same sound is also the beeping, trippy thing, just a little slice of it as a sort of forshadowing for the chorus.

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15th October 2006, 08:37 AM	#3
u b k Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: m a n h a t t a n Posts: 5,539	i like this song, it's off the beaten track but is tasteful. it really needs bass. i'd ease back on the drums in the sparser sections, darken 'em up a bit. which compressor to use depends on my goal. stay open and warm? stc8. bigger on bottom and softer up top? 2500. thick and heavy? 2254, which would do to the drums what i want done anyway. it's a cool mood piece, it could benefit from some seriously deep plate and/or spring verbs and washy, dubby echoes. those would not only deepen and enhance the mood, they would place it more in the ethos and time frame you seem to be evoking. but aside from all the above, what i really want to hear that i'm not is... swing. if you're listening to the oldies station, you're missing the fact that every one of those old songs swings, some of them swing a LOT. work on your groove more than your production, the payoff is bigger. gregoire del ubk . __________________ . . m i x _ a r c h i t e c t . . __________________

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15th October 2006, 12:19 AM	#2
zkaudio Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 357	I'm only like 10 seconds in, but feel like the decay on the guitar could be even longer/more open... drums sound wider than guitars in a weird way **(i'm in my office though, crap speakers)

15th October 2006, 10:16 AM	#6
MATTI Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 943	I like this, don`t over do it. Cheers Matti

15th October 2006, 10:33 AM	#7
Benmrx Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,634	Awsome!! This is kinda giving me a slight ego boost here, and pushing me in the direction of re-doing this song to tape once I've got (hopefully) some vocals to go on. And really taking the time to get it right, bring in session players, rent a 2buss comp, etc. I LOVE tracking, mixing off tape, but only if it's either a simple arrangement, or some serious pre-production has taken place. Thanks for all the kind words everyone. But also, feel free to bash away if something just seems off in an unpleasant way. BTW, I'm surprised (this being gearslutz and all) that no one has mentioned the fact that the guitar has such a loud noise floor. Although I really don't mind.

15th October 2006, 08:54 PM	#8
MattiMattMatt Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 881	OK. I'm listening to it now. What I love: The open guitar, bass stuff, and that little beeping sound that comes in every now and then. Real trippy. Great vibe. Easilly welcomes a vocal track. What I hate: the keyboard chords that do one of either 2 things, clash with the underlying guitar chords, or exactly mirror them. If you want a pad, I'd make it more of an unobtrusive pad sound so it doesn't kill the guitar vibe, and would choose better notes so that they were independent (not just aping the guitar) but didn't sound "wrong." It's easy to picture your hand plunking down on those keyboard notes, and they sound like they were chosen because they were comfortable to play rather than they were what your ear really wants to hear. Yesterday I was working on something and one measure wasn't quite right. It came out of my hands but bothered my ears. Today I was able to get my hands to follow my ears rather than vice versa. I corrected that measure, and then beat myself up for it (I should have known that THOSE were the notes I really wanted yesterday. On retrospect, today, it seems obvious to me, but yesterday I followed my hands instead of my head. On those keyboard parts, it sounds like you're falling into the same trap.) -matt

15th October 2006, 09:41 PM	#9
Benmrx Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,634	MattiMattMatt If your talking about the sound that comes in on it's own, sort of a half measure before the chorus', it was really difficult because that instrument is a kids sqeeze box kind of thing, and really doesn't have too many notes to choose from, but I really like the tone. Maybe I'll try and pitch it up or down till it fits better. BTW, that same sound is also the beeping, trippy thing, just a little slice of it as a sort of forshadowing for the chorus.