More snap on the snare!

[Rufuss Sewell]

I keep getting drummers asking me for more snap on the snare. I'm not personnaly a fan of ridiculously snappy snares so I haven't invested much time into figuring out how to do it. I like my snares to be thick and powerful. But...

I'd like to know how to do it. If fact I'd like to be able to make the snare too snappy just to have the option. I hear the sound on a lot of the new radio songs, but I'm not quite getting the sound.

Can you give me some things to try with the following equipment?

Hardware compressors: Original LA-2A from the 60's, UA 1176 in my 6176, T.C. Gold Channel, Kurzweil KDFX.

Hardware EQ's: 32 channel Daking console. Chameleon Labs 7602, TC Electronic Gold Channel, Kurzweil KDFX.

Software: Blockfish, Logic's Enveloper which is kind of like Transient Designer, all the other Logic plugs, Guitar Rig 2, blah blah blah.

Thanks!

[Rufuss Sewell]

Oh yeah, I also have the feeling that my choice of reverb might not be the best to accentuate the snap.

I have Logic's Space Designer, Reaktor 5, Scarbee VKFX and my Kurzweil KDFX for reverb.

[Thumper]

How snappy is the drum? How are you micing it?

Sound replacer.

[Mike Tholen]

Have you tried blending the dry snare track with a distorted mult of the same track?

Or blending the dry with a sample?

Or use a good snare sample to send to a reverb but not sending it to your 2mix, thus only using the sample snare for a reverb send?

one of those approaches will most likely do the trick.

Good Luck- Mike Tholen

[RhOdEz]

Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell

Software: Logic's Enveloper which is kind of like Transient Designer, blah blah blah.

SPL Transient Designer or Oxford Transmod may be the tools for that job .Enveloper is not even close - it's cheap broken behringer of transient manipulation

[I Lurk]

If you're on PC, there is also another Big Fish pluggin called dominion.

regards

[b-magical]

I use Waves Trans-X for some snap

[Rufuss Sewell]

Yeah, I've done lots of sample replacing. In the end I prefer the real thing. But even with samples I don't seem to get quite as much snap out of the snare.

Eventually I might buy a transient designer, but I'm more interested in getting the sound from the gear I already own.

I imagine some Daking or CL EQ mixed with a slammed 1176 would do it. Just wondering if there are any specific tricks. Thanks!

[7 Hz]

Feed the snare mic into the studio floor into a bass amp with the speaker set on it's back, then lay a snare drum (possably upside down) right on top of the speaker. Send enough snare signal, and EQ it, so it thumps the snare on every beat. Mic it up. Experement with everything until you get the snap you need.

[asagaai]

Hi Rufus,

Not sure if this is of use, but I have been running drum bus through Portico 5043, and it tightens up drums and keeps low end, and although it tigtens up snare, I would not say it gives real snap on snare. Just bought a Buzz audio soc 1.1, on drums, wow-you want snap on snare-how much-just move your release and play with 3 attack settings and work out how much before your ears bleed. Love Buzz-actually can hear sonic diff with each notched change.

Based on this I really think getting the sanp is getting the right compressor/compressors and doing the parallel thing -perhaps in triplicate with different compressors-using their various strengths.

Good luck

Gavin Jensen
Newcastle
OZ

[username]

give a condenser a try aswell.. small diaphragm condensers as a general rule give a much more snappy sound than a dynamic

[andychamp]

1) make a copy of your snare track in Logic. Leave the original untouched. (supposing that it's well recorded to start with)
2) gate your copy
3) send the gated signal to your 1176 and squeeze it silly
4) EQ with your EQ of choice
5) if you still think you need to, add some Transient Designer
6) add to your unprocessed snare track
7) enjoy!

[AlexLakis]

No extra gear needed! Just mic the bottom of the snare. Blend to taste.

If they want it snappier, tell them they need to hit harder and more consistently!

Other than that, the transient designer stuff and multing/limiting techniques above are good. EQ 2K-8K.

[Kris]

Are you recording on carpet? A hard floor will help snare drums 'snap'...

try placing a clip board under the snare when recording.

[djbrough]

parallel compression perhaps (as somebody stated in a round about way above)?

[jomo1234]

Have you tried a different set of snare wires? I have a set of Gretsch wires w/ 42 strands and when you tension it fairly high it really brings out the snap in any drum.

[djui5]

Tell them to hit it right...

Or, if you have to fix it in the mix, you can copy the snare, and filter the copy so most of it is in the 2-4K region, eq boost like hell, then comp it with a 60ms or so attack, whatever makes it pop, and a proper release. 8:1 ratio should work. You'll need an analong comp for this, plug'ins won't do it.

[Jim Williams]

Tape an Auratone speaker to the top head, foldback the snare track, mic the bottom, high pass it and crank up 8k.

Used to work in the 70's!

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Sizzleboy]

Try micing the shell of the snare. Try something like a sure Beta 57a or Beta 56 right up against the shell, and an SM57 on the top head. The sm57 provides the thud, and the shell mic provides all the snap you'll ever need. I recently started doing this unstead of micing the bottom head, and generally don't even need to eq the snare. I sum the mics in the box, then send the mix out of one channel to the board.

[Musiclab]

Are you compressing the snare on playback, set the compressor to a slow attack and
quick release, still not enough? buss the snare to a buss send that to another compressor set with slow attack and quick release and pop that up on another fader, transient designer will also get you there

[gainreduction]

Originally Posted by Sizzleboy

Try micing the shell of the snare.

This is a great trick. AKG 414 is what I've used with great results.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

This is a great trick. AKG 414 is what I've used with great results.

Rufuss - unfortunately you failed to mention what - to me anyway - are the two most important things: the mic and the pre. If you're using a 57, I'd suggest trying an M201 or and i5. I think both would give you more snap. Also, make sure you're miking either the side or the bottom and mix it in to taste.

[uncle duncan]

The mic directly over the head is always going to lack snap. Adding a mic outside the shell helps. Also, a PZM on the back wall or a mic a couple of feet out in front of the kit helps make the snare come alive. There is a sweet spot for the FOK mic. If you find it you get a really luscious snare tone.

[mhartung]

While we're at it, here is another approach which is similar to an earlier post... This works only if you have delay compensation or can be sure that the signals are in phase, OR if your are mixing analog.

1. Copy snare track in DAW
2. Add gate and set the threshold kind of high, attack at zero, release set very short.
3. Blend in with original track.

The idea is to create more of an attack on the snare that is mostly the leading edge of the sound and a tiny bit more (according to taste). Sounds like "pop" when in solo and has no sustain, just "pop". You will be surprised how little you need to add to make it crack. Sometimes I find myself making the "pop" track brighter. YMMV. If the gate is triggering poorly, send me a private message and I'll give you my recipe for cleaning that up too.

mike

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by mhartung

While we're at it, here is another approach which is similar to an earlier post... This works only if you have delay compensation or can be sure that the signals are in phase, OR if your are mixing analog.

1. Copy snare track in DAW
2. Add gate and set the threshold kind of high, attack at zero, release set very short.
3. Blend in with original track.

The idea is to create more of an attack on the snare that is mostly the leading edge of the sound and a tiny bit more (according to taste). Sounds like "pop" when in solo and has no sustain, just "pop". You will be surprised how little you need to add to make it crack. Sometimes I find myself making the "pop" track brighter. YMMV. If the gate is triggering poorly, send me a private message and I'll give you my recipe for cleaning that up too.

mike

What if the snare track is a very dull sounding SM57 on top?

[mhartung]

Thrill,

Try it. It will definitely help a dull 57 on top. Remember you want it to have a spikey sound. The gate should be working kind of hard with the threshold set way high. Eq some top into it if it needs it. Maybe just roll off bottom if you prefer that. Blend a little bit into the original snare track. If you have a lot of HiHat bleed in the snare mic, you will definitely want the release very very short. It should sound like a little blip and a hair more. Of course there are no rules. Compress the snot out of that, eq it, whatever it takes. You won't need very much to get it to crack, if that is what you're lacking in the sound. Words and sound don't always mean the same thing to all of us. YMMV.

I based this approach on what you have readily available. Hope it helps.

mike

[craigmorris74]

The 1176 with about 10 dB's GR, with a slow attack and a quickis release (between 1 and 4 O' clock) does it for me every time. Super snappy if your source sound is up for it.

[John Suitcase]

I've used the gated-mult trick a few times, it works well, especially when trying to tame a really loud hi-hat bleed into the mic.

I've also used the shell trick, works well, although I find that you don't need to get terribly close.

Also, time aligning the snare to the overheads and gating the toms (or removing parts where they aren't being played in the DAW) adds some nice crispness to the snare. I think you lose a little "roominess", but it's made up in snap.

Lastly, I've found a high frequency expander can help, if hihat bleed isn't extreme.

I'm enjoying this discussion, I've noticed that a lot stuff out nowadays has this high-end snap on all of the drums, kick included. I think a lot of it is samples (it's a lot easier to add a ton of high end to a tom if there are no cymbals bleeding in), but part of it is probably other things, like using condensers all over the kit.

I wonder if this clicky/snappy drum sound will be another fad, like gated verbs and simmons drum synths...

[s.d.finley]

An alloy/brass picallo snare always has way too much snappiness for me....

What kind of snare is it and what is it made of?

sdf

[chymer]

transient designer.
Tiz all
Chymer