ProTools Mix Vs Nuendo Mix: MP3s Posted

[I Lurk]

Originally posted by THE FLY
Yes !!!! Nuendo better than PT , more cheaper ,flexible , Sounds Great ... no complain at all ( software and hardware )

If you say so, it must be true

is that you on the avatar ?

[triez]

One thing that is clear to me in all this is that with either Nuendo or Pro Tools a competent engineer and producer can track and mix a world class recording, each will sound slightly different spectrally, which the record buying / movie watching public will never notice.

Each program has editing and MIDI
capabilities that the other doesn't have,
but If you can't do it on Nuendo then Protools won't save you, and vice-versa, so if you are in it for making records / films then Nuendo will get you as far as you want to go, people prove this every day. It is a fraction of the cost of tools, with complete flexibility in terms of platform and hardware.

If you have a large studio for rent then people expect Protools, so you really thus far need to have it. If you love it, or are totally used to it, and can afford it then it is for you. It is very stable, and has enormous advantages in terms of latency, and of course all that DSP. Expect to pay double or more for plug-ins, and to need a bank loan every time Digi announces an upgrade.

But by now, with outstanding hardware available at such low cost from companies such as MOTU the whole thing is academic. Don't forget that if your purpose is to make records that sell so you can make a living from the industry then the sonic differences between Protools and Nuendo mean squat - they both well and truly pass muster in terms of making outstanding recordings. You won't do wrong buying either. The really important point now is stability and work flow, and that is completely up to your ability to set up your computer, and your work flow preferences.

It is of course important and kind of fun to do comparison tests between packages, but if you lay in bed worrying that you won't make as good a mix on the one you have as the guy down the road with the other then you probably have too much time on your hands.

[Bang]

agreed 100% with the above.
Steve
www.blacklinerock.com

First the 2" guys, now the Nuendo guys.

Wonder who will be next?

These are the most idiotic threads ever and
they seem to get much attention.
Why?
Justification.

If you want Nuendo, buy Nuendo.
If you want PT, by PT.

Don't buy whatever is cheaper and then
just tell yourself over and over that it is the same
OR better. If you buy what you wanted in the
fist place no justification is ever required.
All a thread like this proves is that you should have bought PT.

"mine is bigger than yours" serves no purpose in a forum like this. Maybe someday Nuendo will takeover. There is no doubt something will some day.

If your really a proponent for Nuendo post tips, tricks and as much praise as you can. That will convert people.

My opinion.

David

[AdamONE]

How 'bout we just let this thread go...I think what needed to be said has been said.

[Auxillary]

I think everyone of you needs to check out samplitude.

[Bang]

Originally posted by dpasch
First the 2" guys, now the Nuendo guys.

Wonder who will be next?

These are the most idiotic threads ever and
they seem to get much attention.
Why?
Justification.

If you want Nuendo, buy Nuendo.
If you want PT, by PT.

Don't buy whatever is cheaper and then
just tell yourself over and over that it is the same
OR better. If you buy what you wanted in the
fist place no justification is ever required.
All a thread like this proves is that you should have bought PT.

"mine is bigger than yours" serves no purpose in a forum like this. Maybe someday Nuendo will takeover. There is no doubt something will some day.

If your really a proponent for Nuendo post tips, tricks and as much praise as you can. That will convert people.

My opinion.

David

I'm not a Nuendo guy or a PT guy or a 2 inch guy and I'm not trying to justify anything. I simply mixed two tunes in two different DAWs and said to myself "cool". And then I posted them to see if anyone else would find it at all interesting. Some have some haven't. Great. Next day.
Steve
www.blacklinerock.com

[JBRecording]

a true test between the sonics of PT and the sonics of nuendo would be to take the exact same song into both programs, set each fader to the exact same level, use the exact same plugins with the same configurations, and then bounce. I'd also think a better comparison would be with a losless compression such as WAV or AIF, so instead of an entire song in MP3, maybe 30sec or a minute in AIF/WAV...

but oveall everything sounded awesome man.

[Auxillary]

A true test would be giving the same mix to 2 people equally talented in their software, using common effects to each. Then seeing what comes out. Who cares about sonics if you are not efficient using your software?

[studjo]

A true test would be:
one song - into both DAW's - mixed the same way (same filter, comp, levels) everything the same - everything the same - every damn thing the same - than bounce to cd and than listen.

Nothing else would be a comparison between 2 platfroms.

I wonder how many of those nuendo users are traking a whole band at once. Say a funk band with 10 people recorded at the same time - 24 tracks (headphones for everyone - the whole shebang)

Is it easy to do? Just curious - I have to buy a new DAWgrudge

Jo

[AdamONE]

I think there are different kinds of tests. One would be the "real", "true" test. That would be a direct comparison of exactly the same song, mix, etc. The other test is just a casual comparison of products produced on either platform. The "true" test basically gives you the difference in frequency response, summing etc. But aside from that, I think the issue is moot, because when I mix on different systems, I take different approaches anyway to adapt to that platform.

A real systems test for me would be to have a good room with good monitoring, and to mix the same song on each platform the best I can, and then compare. I have to trust my ears and go with what I respond to best. Not just quality, but creativity, efficiency, etc.

Also, to reinforce a point that has already been made...Both are extremely capable of giving an excellent product; in the right hands of course.

Studjo,
As far as Nuendo goes...I use it all the time as well as PT. I find that I like Nuendo better in some aspects, and PT better in others. I have been able to track live bands with it successfully recording 24 tracks at once. And have done mixes with up to 100 tracks without wigging out. The problem is that you will need to run your headphone mixes through your outboard gear. You cannot monitor inputs "live" through Nuendo, there is too much latency, especially if recording 24 tracks. You can PM me if you want to get into some specifics about Nuendo.

Adam

[Runned]

Thanks for the post Bang, I found it quiet interesting. Plus you guys sound really good.

I think its nice that there is and alternative to having to buy a HD rig. It does cost a ton more than Nuendo. I would like to here the same song mixed with, the HD system using TDM plugins, and Digi 002 using the RTAS plugins, and the Nuendo using the VST.

And every other gear be the same.

Thanks enjoyed the tunes.

[5down1up]

listened first , looked second !

my vote goes for no.1 .

hard to compare , no.2 is louder , anyway i like no.1 better on my super PC speakers .

vocal performance is great , music is kinda average imho .
but what do i know

[Tibbon]

Here's how to compare the mix busses PROPERLY imho....

Just send out to PT and Nuenda at the same time from a mult on each of the buss outs on your console (post fader). Use the same set of convertors, somehow splitting the lightpipe. I guess you could also just record the files, and bring them into each program (all mixing/processing actually aready done on the console)

Leave all the faders from the busses at 0, and just lower the master enough (-20 on each?) so you aren't hitting red. Have all the processing et al done beforehand, then bounce or print into each program at the same time. Export the bounce (all fades/processing were done on the console, not digitally), and then do a double blind test for the resulting wav files.

In addition, someone run them back into PT, and see if when you invert them... well is there anything... or was it all the same?

[jlotto]

Originally posted by Auxillary
I think everyone of you needs to check out samplitude.

[Phil Buckle]

Where is the bass player?
Monitoring or room problems are not taken into account by either software packages.

[Tibbon]

Originally posted by dpasch
First the 2" guys, now the Nuendo guys.

Wonder who will be next?

These are the most idiotic threads ever and
they seem to get much attention.
Why?
Justification.

If you want Nuendo, buy Nuendo.
If you want PT, by PT.

Don't buy whatever is cheaper and then
just tell yourself over and over that it is the same
OR better. If you buy what you wanted in the
fist place no justification is ever required.
All a thread like this proves is that you should have bought PT.

"mine is bigger than yours" serves no purpose in a forum like this. Maybe someday Nuendo will takeover. There is no doubt something will some day.

If your really a proponent for Nuendo post tips, tricks and as much praise as you can. That will convert people.

My opinion.

David

My 9" is better than your 2"... or so your wife says :) j/k

[Tibbon]

Originally posted by JBRecording
a true test between the sonics of PT and the sonics of nuendo would be to take the exact same song into both programs, set each fader to the exact same level, use the exact same plugins with the same configurations, and then bounce. I'd also think a better comparison would be with a losless compression such as WAV or AIF, so instead of an entire song in MP3, maybe 30sec or a minute in AIF/WAV...

but oveall everything sounded awesome man.

Nah, he should post in MP3, it will give us a good preview of what the average listener will hear it in..

[RKrizman]

Originally posted by GearHunter
[b]When we did the shootout, we used a stereo wav file of a 16-bit 44.1 stero mix (believe it or not). We imported the file in to a PT session, put the faders on zero and played it, no plug ins. It went out the digital out of the 192 in to the first two channels of a Yamaha DM2000, again, set to "unity".

We then imported the exact same file in to a Nuendo session, averything else the same, and it was like somone cleaned your ears out. Immediately we noticed more detail, better frequency, and more three-dimenensionality.

Protools will spit back the same digits you put into it, as, I assume will Nuendo. It's digital recording 101. If these platforms couldn't do that it would be easy to prove and a well known fact. In your scenario it doesn't matter if its 48 bits or floating 32. You're not doing any math, just reading numbers off a hard drive.

You can think what you like, but if I were you I wouldn't make any important decisions based on your test.

-R

[5down1up]

waz the prob @ tibbon ...

we have that place to discuss stuff like that .
if it makes sense or not ... let the others decide

[Bang]

Whoa fellas... I posted this exactly ONE YEAR AGO!! Look at the year, 2003!! RUN isn't even the same file that was in the original comparison, its a completely new mix. Most of the gear I worked on is long gone and new stuff has replaced it since then. I'll do a new comparison if you'd like with the same song same tracks.. in retrospect that was a crappy test.
Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com

[GPl]

That's the problem with old posts....they can come back and bite ya in the ass. Funny How a concept, albeit silly, can be carried on a year later like it was the latest news.

So are you still using Nuendo? lol

[chriscavell]

Originally posted by Bang
Whoa fellas... I posted this exactly ONE YEAR AGO!! Look at the year, 2003!! RUN isn't even the same file that was in the original comparison, its a completely new mix. Most of the gear I worked on is long gone and new stuff has replaced it since then. I'll do a new comparison if you'd like with the same song same tracks.. in retrospect that was a crappy test.
Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com

No kidding...that was a comparison of mix and monitoring environments...not the software by itself.

[Henchman]

Originally posted by Tibbon
Here's how to compare the mix busses PROPERLY imho....

Just send out to PT and Nuenda at the same time from a mult on each of the buss outs on your console (post fader). Use the same set of convertors, somehow splitting the lightpipe. I guess you could also just record the files, and bring them into each program (all mixing/processing actually aready done on the console)

Leave all the faders from the busses at 0, and just lower the master enough (-20 on each?) so you aren't hitting red. Have all the processing et al done beforehand, then bounce or print into each program at the same time. Export the bounce (all fades/processing were done on the console, not digitally), and then do a double blind test for the resulting wav files.

In addition, someone run them back into PT, and see if when you invert them... well is there anything... or was it all the same?

useless test.

One of the problems with PT's is thatthe in and out of each plug-in is 24 bit. So if you ahev a couple of plug-ins on one channel, then each time it goes in and out, it gets dithered down to 24 bit again.

And as much as tey try and convince people that 48 bit fixed is better, I still find it's easier to overload the stereo bus in PT's. Ans at the end of th day, Nuendo does just sound better.
Even on a single track.
One of our dialogue mixers was pre-mixing a show. He started in PT's, and then took it home to work on in Nuendo. The sound quality and difference in depth was astoundign.

You can either choose to believe it or not. I really don't care.

[Tibbon]

Ok, so the plugin bus seems to be the problem. Why not insert one specific plugin that is exactly the same on each channel (even just a simple Gain/Trim plugin) set to the same things in addition?

I mean, some mixers (such as the Otari I work on) have a pretty good bus in general, but their aux sends aren't that great. Doesn't mean that the board doesn't cut it.

Like someone said before, if Nuendo vs Protools is what determines if your music and product is of quality or not... then perhaps something isn't right to begin with. Great stuff could be great whether in an old Sony JH-24, old Sony digital 48track, Adats, Protools III, Protools HD, Nuendo, or Logic. Will it sound the same? Probably not, but if it's good, then it's good.

[Henchman]

Originally posted by Tibbon


I mean, some mixers (such as the Otari I work on) have a pretty good bus in general, but their aux sends aren't that great. Doesn't mean that the board doesn't cut it.

No. But you'd be pretty unhappy if you knew that by inserting a compressor on a channel the sound of that channel would be degraded because of some weird circuitry in the insert enable switch . And if you knew that in advance, would you have bought the console?

Probably not.

[Tibbon]

That's the reason why the console has a switch to bypass the EQs :) I know EQ circuitry isn't always what i want my signal going through.

And it has VCAs, which also affect the sound. And the Aux system could have a little less crosstalk, but it's still a nice board (Great pres, decent automation for the price, pretty good all around) and i'm glad i got it.

And believe me, i think i get more noise/distortion when i insert your average piece of analogue gear, or insert the EQ path on my board than i get 'noise' or distortion from PT when i insert a 1-band EQ (which i've never noticed kill the sound, maybe my ears just suck).

Hell, most of the time i transfer from 2" tape anymore, so i guess for pure noise alone, it's obvious that i'm willing to accept some.

[blackcatdigi]

Originally posted by Henchman
Ans at the end of th day, Nuendo does just sound better.
Even on a single track.

This would imply an error in playback.

So, you're saying that a single track, no processing, no summing, just sounds better in Nuendo?