API Lunchbox Vs. OSA vs. Brent Averill

[Umlaaat]

I had a conversation with Nathan at Atlas about picking up a lunchbox. The 6 slot API is a bit cheaper than the 8 slot OSA, but Nathan advised me aganist the API because it outputs a half volt vs. the OSA that outputs 6 (or something like that). So having a box full of mono gamas would cause the API to short or cause a fire or etc...

I'm wondering if anybody has had a bad experience with the API boxes and the amount of power it can distribute. I'm looking to invest some $ in the lunchbox format but want something thats going to last and not burn my place down.

Is there a difference in sound as well? I remember reading something about if theres a greater output than the units sound better...

[gramps]

i can't comment on the api issue but i've been using the osa for several years and wouldn't think of giving them up.

g

[gm5k]

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

I had a conversation with Nathan at Atlas about picking up a lunchbox. The 6 slot API is a bit cheaper than the 8 slot OSA, but Nathan advised me aganist the API because it outputs a half volt vs. the OSA that outputs 6 (or something like that). So having a box full of mono gamas would cause the API to short or cause a fire or etc...

I'm wondering if anybody has had a bad experience with the API boxes and the amount of power it can distribute. I'm looking to invest some $ in the lunchbox format but want something thats going to last and not burn my place down.

Is there a difference in sound as well? I remember reading something about if theres a greater output than the units sound better...

i guess you have to think about what youre going to want to power here. 6 API 512's?...3 Gamas and 3 Elixirs? depending on what youre gonna use, it probably is important to look into these kind of power issues that could possibly happen.

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

The 6 slot API is a bit cheaper than the 8 slot OSA, but Nathan advised me aganist the API because it outputs a half volt vs. the OSA that outputs 6 (or something like that).

To be exact I said the smaller API lunchbox has a .5-.75 amp Power Supply, not "volts". The OSA PSU is 3 amps (not "6").

[Umlaaat]

So no ones had any problems with the API racks not being able to supply power?

Anyone have both OSA and API and can tell any kind of a difference?

[ray dsr]

i'll start by saying i LOVE my OSA pres. i have 4 right now and more are on the way.
but, i did have a problem with the OSA rack. of course, OSA made good on the return and Dale and Nathan are both great people.

i now own the brent 11-space and an api 6 space lunchbox. they both work great. no problems so far (i've been using them both for three years).

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

I had a conversation with Nathan at Atlas about picking up a lunchbox. The 6 slot API is a bit cheaper than the 8 slot OSA, but Nathan advised me aganist the API because it outputs a half volt vs. the OSA that outputs 6 (or something like that). So having a box full of mono gamas would cause the API to short or cause a fire or etc...

I'm wondering if anybody has had a bad experience with the API boxes and the amount of power it can distribute. I'm looking to invest some $ in the lunchbox format but want something thats going to last and not burn my place down.

I think it's great when sales people tell you that your house is going to burn down if you don't buy their product... pure genius!

As long as you are buying products that are certified by the VPR alliance, you have nothing to worry about...

http://apiaudio.com/nw_670.html

And if you are worried about the Gama preamps, call Peter at Shadow Hills... He's a really great guy and will tell you if there are any issues with his product and the API. I can't see them making gear for the 500 series racks, and not make it fully compatible with the most popular lunchbox on the market.

[uncle duncan]

The info I've seen for my 6 space API lunchbox says the power supply is 360ma. The standard voltage for 500 pres is around 50ma. So you can fill the API box with api, osa, or A-designs pres with no problem. The problem arises when you put in something like a Buzz Elixir, which draws 150ma. 2 of those and your power supply is maxed out, leaving you with 4 empty slots. The 11 space OSA box with the beefed up power supply is going to let you fill the thing with Elixirs with no problem. So it's not about favoring one company over another. It's about the size of the power supply.
FYI, there is a DIY company called Eisen Audio that can set you up with 500 series kits. Or pre-build for you. He made me a 'neve'ish' pre that just kills for vocals. I like it better than the A-designs stuff, the cost is the same, and, best of all, it only draws around 50ma.

[Steamy Williams]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

As long as you are buying products that are certified by the VPR alliance, you have nothing to worry about...

http://apiaudio.com/nw_670.html

I'd like to know which products are currently endorsed, and whether there are any products that have been refused certification.

[Nerdyrocker]

So what about the Averill power supply for the 11 rack system? Could it potentially power 11 Elixers?


Gracias!

[beechstudio]

Keep in mind.....some manufactures will not honor a warranty on a module that goes bad in a rack other than their own. That's what I've heard at least.......

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I think it's great when sales people tell you that your house is going to burn down if you don't buy their product... pure genius!

Misquoted again. That's not what I said.

Let's use some common sense here, there are some proper guidelines for using gear.

FACT: As someone mentioned above, the smaller API rack (which I own one of) has a 360 mA PSU.

FACT: The Shadow Hills preamp draws approx 100 mA, the Buzz Audio Elixir draws 150 mA.

FACT: Filling the smaller API rack with 6 Gamas, or 6 Elixirs will result in a draw of 600 - 900 mA of draw, which is approx 2-3x's more than the power supply in the smaller API lunchbox is intended to handle. Units like the OSAs, APIs preamps, and BAE preamps all draw around 50-60 mA.

Conclusion: There will be problems with the higher draw preamps. Whether it manifests itself in a much shorter lifespan of the preamps or PSU, or the preamps just don't work because they don't get enough juice, or the supply starts to get overly hot after a long session (or leaving it on indefinitely as many people do), and a few other scenarios.

I wouldn't do this in my smaller API rack, so I would not recommend someone else to do this. Now, I am not generalizing this problem to API's larger rack, or Brent Averill's racks. From what I understand API is intending to increase the size of the PSU in the 6 module lunchbox to 1 amp in the future, but this doesn't change the cautionary rules for the one with the current 360 mA design. If someone wants to take this as a bias, be my guest to do the opposite of what I've advised. If anyone has any questions or comments for me, please email me directly, thanks.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Steamy Williams

I'd like to know which products are currently endorsed, and whether there are any products that have been refused certification.

It hasn't ben announced yet...

The only one's that I am positive are either approved or will be approved in the near future is A Designs & Avedis Audio. I think Daking & Speck are also onboard, but I can't confirm any of the other manufacturers.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

To be exact I said the smaller API lunchbox has a .5-.75 amp Power Supply, not "volts". The OSA PSU is 3 amps (not "6").

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

FACT: As someone mentioned above, the smaller API rack (which I own one of) has a 360 mA PSU.

FACT: The Shadow Hills preamp draws approx 100 mA, the Buzz Audio Elixir draws 150 mA.

FACT: Filling the smaller API rack with 6 Gamas, or 6 Elixirs will result in a draw of 600 - 900 mA of draw, which is approx 2-3x's more than the power supply in the smaller API lunchbox is intended to handle. Units like the OSAs, APIs preamps, and BAE preamps all draw around 50-60 mA.

Well, I think the first thing you need to determine is the exact amperage of the API 5006B, as you have said two different things (360ma & .5-.75amps)....

I agree that the Buzz draws an extreme amount of current. Yet from his website:

Each elixir module draws 150mA of current from the frame power supply in which it is fitted and this is generally higher than most modules available from API* and other manufacturers. At this time, it is recommended that only two modules are fitted into the API* Lunchbox frame along with other modules. The API* V500 rack with LP200 external supply will easily power 10 modules. The older API* 10 space rack with internal power supply is not suitable for the elixir modules.

If that is the case then obviously the 5006B is capable of more than 360ma. Buzz says there will be no problems running a rack full of 512's or other pre's, EQ's or compressors along with a pair of their Elixirs.

Umlaaat:

Contact Peter Reardon if you are concerned about the Gama's in regards to working with the API 5006B. I'm sure 2x Gama's along with various A Designs, Avedis, and API modules won't be a problem. But, you should speak with him regardless.

[Tim Farrant]

That information Tony has quoted has been provided to me from the API technical department. I suspect that the Lunchbox can do a little more than 360mA, but officially, that is the rating. I have not seen the power supply in the Lunchbox, but I assume it uses IC 3 terminal regulators which, when properly heatsunk, can do 1 amp. The limitation may be the transformer or the size of the heatsinks.

I'll try and get a more definitive answer from API and post it here. I do know API are changing the Lunchbox supply so it can deliver 150mA per slot.

And yes, Buzz Audio is part of the VPR Alliance.

Tim.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Tim Farrant

Buzz Audio is part of the VPR Alliance.

Tim.

Congrats!

[chriscoleman]

Originally Posted by Tim Farrant

And yes, Buzz Audio is part of the VPR Alliance.

Tim.

Is this retroactive, meaning that all 500-series Buzz products released prior to the VPR alliance have been ok'd by API?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by chriscoleman

Is this retroactive, meaning that all 500-series Buzz products released prior to the VPR alliance have been ok'd by API?

Only if API has been sent a module of the product in question and tested it for use in their products.

[C/G]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Contact Peter Reardon if you are concerned about the Gama's in regards to working with the API 5006B. I'm sure 2x Gama's along with various A Designs, Avedis, and API modules won't be a problem. But, you should speak with him regardless.

I asked Peter about this because I have two mono Gama's in an Averill box, and I want to add two Shadow Hills Nova pre/eq when they come available and he said it will work no problem (with the Averill lunch box anyway).

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by chriscoleman

Is this retroactive, meaning that all 500-series Buzz products released prior to the VPR alliance have been ok'd by API?

The unit being referred to is the Buzz Audio Elixir preamp. API received an early SN of the unit for their evaluation, and the design has not changed. So that means that since they approved their Elixir in hand, all Elixirs are approved.

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by beechstudio

Keep in mind.....some manufactures will not honor a warranty on a module that goes bad in a rack other than their own. That's what I've heard at least.......

I always wonder how they'll know what it was in. Do they have a dog that can smell competitors' racks?

[Tim Farrant]

Originally Posted by Nerdyrocker

So what about the Averill power supply for the 11 rack system? Could it potentially power 11 Elixers?

As far as I understand, yes it should.

[Umlaaat]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

Misquoted again. That's not what I said.

that is what you said.

[pan60]

happy with my OSA rack as well as the OSA pre's.
i would not hesitate recommending the OSA rack or pre's to a friend.
Nathan has been good to me.

[dudleys100]

Another vote for OSA, I have been using them for almost 4 years. I have had 6 API modules in the rack throughout its life along with All of the offerings from OSA, and it has performed very well.

Keep in mind my rack is 4 years old, and I must say I have seen the racks and supplies they are sending out now and they look even nicer than mine, they just keep improving thier products, it feels solid as a rock.

The other thing I like about the OSA racks is that the rack mount version holds an extra pre and it is black so it is easier to color code compared to figuring out what matches with blue

[3rdeyeKnight]

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

that is what you said.

Are you investigating? Or instagating?