Any experience with modded Oktavas?

[Brad McGowan]

For anyone wondering, Michael's mods are way above and beyond a simple "Dorsey mod". He's doing things to these mics that high end mic manufacturers consider when releasing their $6000 microphones.

I have a modded 219 that Michael did. It was before he started offering the premium electronics mods. The work he did made a world of difference and really brought the mic to life. I can only imagine how nice it would sound had it received "the works" that he is now offering.

Brad

[redddog]

So Michael,

How much for a pair of MC-012 pencils? I'm looking for the works and a brief description of what to expect.

Thanks. I really like these all ready so I'd love to hear them after you did your thang.

Danny

[George Necola]

BTW, "If playing with your Schoeps" is what its called over there, make sure its just a bit...you may go blind, and you already have glasses....be careful!

damned:D big brother is watching me

rangadanga dingding dong..

now we all know that Oktava matches on paper! thumbsup

outta here

[MichaelJoly]

Originally Posted by redddog

So Michael,

How much for a pair of MC-012 pencils? I'm looking for the works and a brief description of what to expect.

Thanks. I really like these all ready so I'd love to hear them after you did your thang.

Danny

I really only stopped in here to provide some validation that Oktava does engage in a valid pair-matching process since I am in a position to know that.

I prefer to respect our host's preference that this forum not be used for commercial posting so I won't solicit business or provide pricing here or on any forum.

In fact, I don't offer a stand-alone service to perform the "Dorsey" mod on the '012 - for several reasons. First that modification originated with Scott Dorsey and I prefer not to profit from the execution of his ideas. (However, I refer this work to a colleague who is very good, reasonable and has worked out an arrangement with Scott) Second, it is a point of differentation for me that I do not generally work on the '012 body but concentrate mostly on Oktava LDC mics (exception follows). Now that I'm a Oktava dealer and offer several mics that use the circuit originally found in the '012 I do modify those mics with upgrades that are, in part, based on my Premium Electronics option for the MK-219/319 (which are distinct from the "Dorsey mods"). So I would modify an '012 body sold with an MK-101 mic. I would also modify that same circuit in the MK-105 LDC and MK-011 mid-sized diaphragm mic.

I'm probalby treading a little to close the non-commercial edge here so I'll get back to my bench

best, MJ

[jakromm]

These mics seem to sound great, but I am very uneasy about buying one on ebay. I just saw a 319 go for 100, is this typical or is it a chinese? Also the frequency range is 40hz-20khz, I am going to use it for piano recording, would it be a big deal that its not 20hz base? Since the piano lower notes go below 40. And should I get large diaphragm for recording piano in ortf or stick to the small pencils?

[SpiderM69]

Originally Posted by SpiderM69

That's what I'm wondering, too. I beleive my 219 came with the Russian manual, but the 319 didn't. Got em both at GC.

Michael, do the mod's produce as good a result with the Chinese knock-off's, or are they not worth the trouble to send in?

thought I'd make another attempt at getting this question answered....

[jebjerome]

Michael, do the mod's produce as good a result with the Chinese knock-off's, or are they not worth the trouble to send in?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I don't have the manual, got it at GC, feel like it's Chinese for some reason.

Thanks!

[insomnio]

Is the 219 more versatile than the 319?

I

[bogeyeater]

i have a 219 with a blown capsule - can this be resurrected/improved even?

[Acoustic Cloud]

I know that the differences in the 219 and 319 are almost nothing, after full mods. They use the same capsule, and I remember Michael telling me that the headbasket shape is the only thing that may make them slightly different sounding. But for the most part, they are really the same mic in the end result. (Remember both have the switches bypassed, for a better signal path in the electronics) The other cap Oktava uses is in the MK-105, that I had the privilege of testing last week. Im not sure which ones the tube mics use, I havent heard either of those, but its either/or.

Email Mike at his site about the 40hz thing, thats interesting. He doesnt hang on the forums much, as losers like ME!!! Also about the the Chinese mod . I would believe the chinese capsule may prevent it from sounding the same, but he may have access to capsules from Tula, I dont know. If anyone wants to get a hold of him a bit faster than on this thread, check out http://oktavamod.com

Chears!!!!

[MichaelJoly]

Hi Folks, I'll answer few questions all together here...

re: Russian vs Chinese mics -

There are two knock-off versions of the MK-319. One is exceptionally poor and is not worth upgrading. This mic is blue-grayish in color (not black) and has a 32mm Chinese capsule without the characteristic black, perforated HF resonator disc supplied on real Oktava MK-319 mics. These mics are easilly distinquished by the body color and capsule visiable through the headbasket.

A second copy of the MK-319 is actually an identical copy. I'll quote from my price list / FAQ so that my message is consistent: "Over the past 2 years I have seen a 40:1 ratio of Russian to this Chinese version. Most likely the mic you own is a Russian model. However, the quality control of the Chinese copies of the Oktava MK-319 is very good and quite consistent. But the Chinese capsules are missing some of that special lower-midrange magic that people have called "Neumann-esque". The proximity effect Q, amplitude and center frequency is not as sharp, pronounced and advantageously located in the frequency spectrum as with the original Russian-built mics. In a way, these copies are "flatter" but not as "flattering". They actually work pretty well for recording acoustic guitar when you want large diaphragm bigness but also want to avoid some of the boom of proximity effect.

Because my acoustical and electronic modifications occur outside the capsule physically and after the capsule electronically, they will work on the Chinese-manufactured mics. All of my modifications result in a mic that is more clear and present with better HF extension and lower transient smearing - whether it started life in Tula Russia or the People's Republic of China"

Re: Blown capsule - is the capsule diaphragm actually punctured? If not, the problem most likely lies elsewhere. I don't have a supply of replacement capsules or diaphragms and have not been able to get any yet.

re: 219 / 319 versatility -

Short answer - the modded 319 offers the most potential versatility, the 219 offers 2-3dB more lower midrange presence due to the headbasket shape and grille mesh difference.

Longer answer - I say "potential versatility" because I have more mod options for the 319 than the 219, two of them improve off-axis response smoothness for drum overhead or ambient room mic'ing. The Floating Dome and Flat top mods produce a headbasket that is unrestriced by vertical members to eliminate a source of internal headbasket reflections and refractions. For close mic'd applications where near-field energy predominates, the modded 219 and 319 are interchangable.

re: Used mic pricing -

Prices for used Oktava mics have been drifting upward over the past two years. In fact, it is not uncommon for a 219 to fetch more than a 319 because the buyer of a 219 avoids the Russian / Chinese origin ambiguity - all MK-219 mics were made in Tula, Russia. Prices vary based on whether or not the seller can prove Russian origin with Russian language manual or hard-shell plastic case. $105 for a used 219/319 in good shape is a very fair price at this point. When looking for a used mic its always nice to find one that has not been used in a smoking environment and has also lived in a fairly clean and dry environment. Good luck getting the seller to be honest with you.

re: lack of Russian language manual with Guitar Center mics-

This just means the former distributors created their own English language manual and shipped the mics with those. These manual do not include individual frequency response plots.

re: Spec'd frequency response.

The 20Hz - 20kHz specification is a game that is as old as Adam. Most LDC mics fall off before those limits. Mic selection is probably best made on an sonic basis rather than published frequency response specification. The 20Hz-20kHz spec tells us nothing about phase repsonse in the critical midrange or transient response in the time domain. Because frequency response irregularities occur as a result of the physics of LDC mics most manufacturers prefer to publish smoothed curves and broad text-based specs like "20Hz-20kHz". Having said all that, if you really need to capture C0 @ 16.35Hz of a Bosendorfer Imperial grand piano you should probably be looking at speciallized microphones.

[jakromm]

How would a pair of ADK sc-t compare to a pair of Oktava 012, modded and unmodded? I am debating selling my pair and buying the oktava's but I don't want to go through the trouble if its honestly not worth it.

Which do you think would record piano better, a pair of 012, or a pair of 319? Would you just use the 319 in ortf?

[MadGuitrst]

Originally Posted by George Necola

damned:D big brother is watching me

now we all know that Oktava matches on paper!

We also know that George types before he thinks and gives opinions about gear he has not listened to....... and is rather cratchety and plays with his Schoeps and likes to brag about it.

Apparently playing with one's Schoeps can make you go deaf as well as blind and cause you to lose your sensibilities too. Just kidding George, but really, you owe it to take a listen to these mics, especially now that you've offerend an opinion. I bet you'll love the way it records the sound of a foot in your mouth!

(excuse me.........I'm just in a playful mood )


Anyway Gerorge, when I read your comments, it was obviously you did not use OkatavaMod mics.

Anyway, I will say I have a modded MK319 and it hs quickly become a favorite.
It has a fantastic blend of clarity and character.

What it is: It is very open and detailed with very good depth and character.

What it is not: It is not spitty, grainy, eshy, or hashy. It is less prone to sibilence than just about condenser mic I've tried and FWIW, I am really anal about these points.

Now, I'm not going to compare it to a $4,000 mic that I don't own or use, but I can compare it to various mics within, oh.....say the $$100-$2,000 price range. In all, it's a terrific mic and I like it WAY better than anything anwhere near it's price point.

So, I sent a mic I paid $50 for (let's say they are worth $100 used), spent $150 on, and wound up with a fantastic mic for $200. So, in general, for $200 to $400 you can have an awesome mic.

Hey, Acoustic Cloud might be more anal than me (he is ). He raved about the MK319 and said he was going to sell one of his much pricier mics because his ears said the MK319 was killing it. So, since I've come to know that his thoughts/opinions have served me well, I sent mine to Michael. I'm glad I did. it was better than I expected and more than I really hoped for.

I'm not about to tell you it will kill your $$$$ mic for your given application or that you'll sell all of your mics after you get a modded Oktava. But I will say I understand Acoustic Cloud's decision and they are well worth a listen. I don't know one person who has had the mic modded that hasn't really dug the results.

My MK319 went from sitting in a box, because for the money I paid for it it wasn't worth selling, to a mic I now usually pull out first.

[George Necola]

We also know that George types before he thinks and gives opinions about gear he has not listened to....... and is rather cratchety and plays with his Schoeps and likes to brag about it.

Apparently playing with one's Schoeps can make you go deaf as well as blind and cause you to lose your sensibilities too. Just kidding George, but really, you owe it to take a listen to these mics, especially now that you've offerend an opinion. I bet you'll love the way it records the sound of a foot in your mouth!

(excuse me.........I'm just in a playful mood )


Anyway Gerorge, when I read your comments, it was obviously you did not use OkatavaMod mics.

argh.. now you killed the rest of my ego in one sentence

types before he thinks and gives opinion about gear he has not listenend to..

never used em? I have to disagree, because I tested 5 pairs.. really.. and matching FREQs-curves is not all about matching mices.. but.. I dont have to explain you this..

tutt tutt nono.. can't accept your kidding right now

I will my uncle in Italy, he has some friends.. if someone ever kisses you on the forehead you should be

enough said, that's really becomes dirty just because of an Oktava-discussion

cheers

[Acoustic Cloud]

Castanza, you said you was outta here 3 times?!?

Que mentira! Su tio en pais Italy es un menso tambien!!tutt tutt

[MadGuitrst]

George, you didn't test 5 pairs of these mics, just stop the silliness.
If your foot gets any further in your mouth you'll be kicking yourself in the arse.

I know, I know.........you meant the non-modded Oktavas.
Okay, okay.............

As for matched pairs: I woldn't pay any extra price for them but if I needed two of the same mics I would take a matched set for the same price.

Unless someone is going to come match every single space where I record every single instrument, every single time I record it in stereo, I'd consider paying the extra.

In the end, it all comes down to one thing: just listen and be honest with yourself.

Hey, I bought an MC012 used about 2 years after I bought my first one. I must have gotten lucky as they sound about the same to me. Both of them good.

BTW, it's: 'nuff said.......not: nough said..............damn summer help never gets it right!

[George Necola]

George, you didn't test 5 pairs of these mics, just stop the silliness.
If your foot gets any further in your mouth you'll be kicking yourself in the arse.

I know, I know.........you meant the non-modded Oktavas.
Okay, okay.............

just because I am pissed... :D

did you ever thought in your little world, that it's possible a shop would test maybe all pairs who are matched? or maybe a Tonmeister-Schule would test everthing they get in?

would you accept if the Jazzfestival-Montreux only accepts matched pairs and uses the cheapo Oktavas?

there are lotsa possibilites why humans test 5 sets of oktavas...

now I feel better:D

thanx.. out

[Acoustic Cloud]

Your not out yet Castanza, I stole your "Gilligan" hat before you bailed......

You'll be back. :D :D :D :D

[MadGuitrst]

Originally Posted by George Necola

would you accept if the Jazzfestival-Montreux only accepts matched pairs and uses the cheapo Oktavas?

Well, that question/statement is ambiguous and contradictory. If you are using the Jazzfestival-Montreux to point to a high standard in audio, say they use OKtavas, then either the Oktavas are good enough for use in high standard audio applications or Jazzfestival-Montreux is sonically inferior and also cheap.

Guitar Center made Oktavas cheap by using them as a loss leader to get people in the doors. I don't know the specifics of their contract(s) etc and won't pretend to know.

I also would never say that there weren't issues with QC or that their designs couldn't be improved upon. But obviously their microphones have a good foundation, namely good capsules.

For some time there has been discussions on how to make make them better through mods, mostly the MC/MK 012 and changing out a few components; never changing the capsules. Scott Dorsey was the first person I read about doing this.

There was talk about the MK219 when they were first surfacing, mostly due to the grill design and resonances, etc. When the MK319 was getting popular and GC blowing them out, issue seemed to arise about their compnenets too. Again, never their capsules.

Michael Joly didn't just pop out of nowhere. He's been visable as a valuable contributor to various forums for years, along similar lines as the very well respected Mr. Scott Dorsey. I've read many posts of his regarding grill designs and their effect on mics. In the Tape-Op group buy, his recommendation was taken by the group on which grill to request based on very specific information he freely provided, which he also did with the Oktavas. Now, he's taken these mics to a new level. It's tangible and a lot of the audio world has taken notice.

For those of us who were lucky enough to get MK319 mics cheaply and not sell them, we now have a chance to turn them into a great tool at at great price. For those that didn't, you now have an option to buy a great mic for a great price. I'm talking about OktavaMod's line of new mics. You get brand spanking new mics that have been QC's to the nth degree right here in the USA by someone you can actually contact.

The bottom line is that Oktava mics are no longer cheap, as in possessing a poor reputation, poor QC, poor sonics due to the frmer problems. They are regaining the respect they lost and are without a doubt better then ever, emerging from the ashes left behind by a megastore. In my view, nobody is more responsible than Michael Joly. Sure, the Sound Room looked them over, charged a premium for doing so, and the mics that they stamped their seal of approval on were accepted by the many (most?) of the audio Gods as possessing value sonically and monetarily. But OktavaMod actually performs physical and tangible sonic improvments, which also results in absolute QC measures. All for a fair price.

There are some other good mics for the money, some with different colors or excelling in different applications, but you won't get any better overall price/performance for what the OktavaMod mics do, specifially the MK219/319.

BTW, did I mention the OktavaMod MK319 plays really nice with EQ?

What more could you want from a mic?

But hey, if you'll feel better paying way more, just send 4x the selling price when you buy one of the mics.

BTW George, what are your mic preferences?

[George Necola]

I am a bit tired of this discussion and my ego is gone.. died in OkvtaBa war..:D

prefered mics depends on the pre/source I am using it with.

SM 57 UD III trough a chandler germanium on a Labogacab is absolute killer for guitarsound.

my AKG 414 ULS-b (silver version) is nice trough my audient ASP008 for distant kick micing or deathmetal vocals.

U47 ==> Neve V3 sounded nice as room for this particular drummer in this particular room..

really.. it's not the gear.. and you missed my point completly.. go and use your oktaBas, I REALLLY DONT CARE:D


still in this discussion.. but dont want totutt

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by MadGuitrst

.... (snip).... I have a modded MK319 and it hs quickly become a favorite.
It has a fantastic blend of clarity and character.

What it is: It is very open and detailed with very good depth and character. .....

(snip).... I can compare it to various mics within, oh.....say the $$100-$2,000 price range. In all, it's a terrific mic and I like it WAY better than anything anwhere near it's price point.......... (snip).....

I checked out a modded MK319 mic

I cannot compare it to the pre mod sound......

but it didn't sound fantastic, in my evaluations.

The $400 ($300 used) Shure KSM 32 wiped the floor with it. Absolutely blew it away.

FWIIW

[MadGuitrst]

Originally Posted by George Necola

I am a bit tired of this discussion and my ego is gone.. died in OkvtaBa war..:D

prefered mics depends on the pre/source I am using it with.

SM 57 UD III trough a chandler germanium on a Labogacab is absolute killer for guitarsound.

my AKG 414 ULS-b (silver version) is nice trough my audient ASP008 for distant kick micing or deathmetal vocals.

U47 ==> Neve V3 sounded nice as room for this particular drummer in this particular room..

really.. it's not the gear.. and you missed my point completly.. go and use your oktaBas, I REALLLY DONT CARE:D


still in this discussion.. but dont want totutt

George, I got your original point and I agreed with you, not that either of us is right or wrong. But I've always questions the valdity of matching and certainly been against paying any extra for matched pairs. But that's just me. Certainly for my uses I don't need to be concerned about it......I only have two pairs of mics, neither expensive.

Thanks for sharing on the mics and gear you use. It's always interesting to know about other people's experiences. BTW, is that a real/original U47 you have???

In all, for those pros owning U47, U67, etc, I could see why they'd not like a lot of other mics. I also know why people had negative thoughts on original and GC era Oktavas. Like I said, my MK319 sat in it's box. It sounded like a ribbon, not high end or presence. Still, it had it's useful moments and was good for harsh sounds (speaker cone) and sibilence, since it had none. I was just surprised that the mic opened up so much after the mod and still had no sibilence, eshiness.

Anyway George

Mixerguy, that's an interesting experience you had there and I don't doubt it for a second. On an given day for a particular application and particular sources, any mic of any quality could beat out somethign else. Hey, Shure SM47's have been chosen over a lot of other mics for a lot of recordings,

I've used the KSM27/32/44 and currently own a KSM137.
They're all fine mics IMO; I really like Shure in general, although ironically I usually don't like the SM57 in one of it's most used applications, micing guitar cab.

The KSM44 and KSM137 in particular I like. They are both very clean, clear and detailed. The KSM32 is a very solid all around mic; not exciting, but that can be just right sometimes. The KSM27 is a bargain but I just didn't find many places where it beat out other mics for me. Still, it's a well made mic and a good choice for a mic for someone just starting out (not saying it couldn't have a place for whoever, whenever).

In all, Shure has been a company making super solid, high quality mics for a long time. It's good to see an American comany continue to make it in the mic arena, although I'm sure it's not with their LD/MD condensers, which no one ever seems to kick up any dust about.

BTW, Mixerguy, what did you use the 32 and 319 on?

[Acoustic Cloud]

George,
The only reason you are still IN this discussion, is you popped in and said everything sucks, and got rattled when people called you on, well, the fact that you got absolutely everything wrong, and then some!

I have heard enough mics, as I am sure you have also. Probably alot more high end mics than me.... that however doesnt make you the Queen of England.

I cant stress enough the value the Oktava mods are, but thats just my opinion. The difference here is, I have used them. My opinion comes from actual experience, be it worthy or not.

Am I selling all my mics for only Oktavas?!? NO!! Of course not!

I can say this though, I dont think anyone has ever made a butterfly from a cockroach as well as Oktavamod has with these models,... ever before.

Was nice to read your gear setups and such though George!

[uncle duncan]

Originally Posted by mixerguy

I checked out a modded MK319 mic

I cannot compare it to the pre mod sound......

but it didn't sound fantastic, in my evaluations.

The $400 ($300 used) Shure KSM 32 wiped the floor with it. Absolutely blew it away.

FWIIW

For every application that the KSM 32 wins, there will be another one where the 319 wins. That's why it's a good idea to have more than one microphone. However, if a person's preference it to have a hyped high end on everything in the mix, then the 319 would probably not be a first choice. Funny thing about recording hyped high end - once it's on tape (or disc) it's hard to get rid of. But you can always add high end to a flat signal, at least with the 319, because it does take EQ well.

[George Necola]

BTW, is that a real/original U47 you have???

nope, just in a studio we rented (btw, that is my way to go.. you dont have to invent the wheel again with your own studio, just rent the existing ones).

what I dont like about stoneage-gear is the reliablity. we rented the studio 3 days and 2 times one of those 5 U47 they have broke (no sound). they have an inHouse tech who fixed it, but just think about your own studio (mostly without a tech handy).
sidenote: besides that the superb overheating Neve V3 runs hot as a devil.. so weekly maintenance is a must. the whole board needs recapping from time to time.

stop buying those vintage & overpriced stuff and invest in something like a soundelux..

we are way offtopic now.. I am very sorry, but I felt a bit pissed.

Probably alot more high end mics than me.... that however doesnt make you the Queen of England.

Crown missing.. right

again, it's not the gear it's the band/room/producer and you, the mixing/recordingguy. gear makes your life easier (except if you are completly ****ed with the 1001 knobs in your studio).

[Acoustic Cloud]

So basically george, you dont own any mics? Is that whay you are saying? Renting established studios is way cool, especially using their backline, but what mics do you own and listen to on a regular basis>?

You also said you were pissed (a bit) over what?!?! No one here made you angry, except for a bit of clowning that you had all the specs wrong, and you did!

If My "Gilligan Hat" quote mad ya mad, then Im sorry...but I wasnt wrong, you are back, as I said you would be . Playing with your "Schoeps" was a funny call on my part, no offense intended.

Hmmm, actually George, your starting to sound like a high maintenence woman with alot of emotional irregularities......dont go there man, TURN BACK!!

Im leaving this thread for good now........no seriously, I am... this time......no, really..

[George Necola]

ARGH

beam me up spoky please.. those men from outer space are willing to kill me

I dont own the old shit, those you will find in the studio you rent.

I own microphones, I own preamp.. everything is portable, goes to the session with me.. that's it..

Hmmm, actually George, your starting to sound like a high maintenence woman with alot of emotional irregularities......dont go there man, TURN BACK!!

ohoh.. you mean my girlfriend affects my mind-confidence? I will call my doctor..

[Acoustic Cloud]

Originally Posted by George Necola

ARGH

beam me up spoky please.. those men from outer space are willing to kill me

I dont own the old shit, those you will find in the studio you rent.

I own microphones, I own preamp.. everything is portable, goes to the session with me.. that's it..



ohoh.. you mean my girlfriend affects my mind-confidence? I will call my doctor..

Spoky???

Who the heck is that??

Sorry to make ya flip george, you seem like your gonna bust.
Lay low son, and relax......

Spoky is a funny new name though.....

[Michael_Joly]

New samples of female vocals recorded with OktavaMod Edition MK-102, MK-104, MK-105. Gefell M930 used for reference:
http://www.oktavamod.com/audio.html

Also a new U48 / OktavaMod Edition MK-319 Floating Dome PE test is available.

[thebjorno]

Originally Posted by George Necola

there are even people who lower the chassis of an Opel Corsa and let it sound like a tractor.

Ugh, my grandfather was an Opel and Buick mechanic...I have heard many a horror story about the Opel Corsa and how difficult it is to work on.