AKG C414B XLII or Shure SM81 for Acoustic Guitar or ????

barryjohns · 8th October 2006, 08:01 PM

I am in the process of upgrading all of my recording gear from lower to mid level, to upper mid to high end. I just purchased a new AKG C414B XLII mic. It retails for 999.00 and I got it for 750.00 (Scratch and Dent, although only the case was dented, the mic is in perfect condition). I can get another one for the same price. I've got 2 Chinese Knock-off Oktava ML012's. I use the AKG for my vocals; it’s the new version, which us much better for vocals than previous versions. I've recorded my acoustic with it as well and like what I hear, but want to be able to use two mics on my Acoustic. I have used my Oktava's with good results, but they are knock-off's so I don't know what two decent mics will sound like.

Here's the deal. I want to be able to get great Acoustic Recordings. Would I be better of buying the second C414XLII to go with my existing one for 750.00 or buy two Shure SM81's for about the same price? I'd like to keep it based on new vice eBay for sake of discussion.

Please look at my gear below. I'd probably need to buy another UA Solo 610 for the new C414 as well.

If not the SM81's, any other recommendations.

Jim vanBergen · 8th October 2006, 08:25 PM

Neumann KM84s or 85s, the tone and character are stunning and BIG!

My $0.02

loaf · 8th October 2006, 11:05 PM

if the XL 11 is anything like the TL11 I'd avoid it for acoustic guitar. The sm81 is good, but really for strumming, no fancy stuff. If you can't get KM84's, gefell M300's are considered the closest, and if your budget is tight at4051's are good

loaf · 8th October 2006, 11:05 PM

if the XL 11 is anything like the TL11 I'd avoid it for acoustic guitar. The sm81 is good, but really for strumming, no fancy stuff. If you can't get KM84's, gefell M300's are considered the closest, and if your budget is tight at4051's are good

Confusionator · 8th October 2006, 11:52 PM

Put the XLII on the body and the SM81 on the neck. Very good combination, which can be slagged by the slutz here only in relation to much more expensive gear.

It's CERTAINLY a good enough combination for a major label release.

AmekGuy · 9th October 2006, 12:02 AM

Go with the SM81s. You can't go wrong with them and they also shine on live stereo recording applications.

barryjohns · 9th October 2006, 01:45 AM

Thanks for all the info. I am cancelling my order for the other AKG C414xlII. I just bought a used SM81 off Ebay for 225.00 that I will use in combination with the 414 I have now. Let me know if I've made a mistake.

Acoustic Cloud · 9th October 2006, 01:57 AM

I have the XLII, and I like it. I have used it on acoustic, and it sounds good. Chords dont blow apart, the brightness is classy, not cheap sounding. My first go to for acoustic isnt LDC anyway, but the XLII is nice on vox and ac. guitar.

Bottom line:

Dont sell it to chase other gear. You will like it down the line. Many have chased many rabbits, only to start over.

max cooper · 9th October 2006, 02:03 AM

I totally dig B-ULS on acoustic, but I wonder if anyone's used the Josephson C42 on acoustics?

Acoustic Cloud · 9th October 2006, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max cooper

I totally dig B-ULS on acoustic, but I wonder if anyone's used the Josephson C42 on acoustics?

See Max my man, I had a brand new BULS over 3 years ago, and didnt like it. I thought it had too much mids on acoustic. After many placements, I finally hooked up the Behringer B2, and said "Thats it!"

Now I wish i had it back. Ears are better tuned now, so I am letting mics sit here for a bit longer.

dbbubba · 9th October 2006, 07:08 AM

I use SM81s live and with a good enough ACSTC they will work OK in recording situations.
I'd go with a large consdenser if it was a solo ACSTC track or the ACTSC was doing anything other than strumming, rythm track stuff. The differences in 414s don't bother me that much. I'd prefer an older nickle body mic, but they all work.

My number one ACSTC mic is my KM84 and has been for almost sixteen years.
I also use it for solo fiddle, solo violin, mandolin, dobro, etc...

Interestingly enough enough my KM84 started life as a KM85i!
A KM85i is a Flash Gordon looking hand held Nuemann.
There was a KM85i at a studio I worked at and everyone said it was broken.
I aquired it and opened it up to discover that inside was shock-mounted KM84!!!!
The KM84 was in perfect condition because it had been inside the body of the KM85i.
The XLR connector fits the KM85i body, so the KM84 portion has the larger back piece of the KM85 wire-tied to the body.
The wires come out of the KM84 body and go up to the XLR.
It doesn't look too funky and it sounds gorgeous.
I was recording a studio player friend and he said, "It looks like that mic that Tina Turner uses in Mad Max Return to the ThunderDome!"

In the fine tradition of my other gear, it is a piece that someone else discarded and I repaired.
It is good that so few people know how to repair stuff!
"Yeah, that's no good anymore... give it to me, I'll throw it away for you."
Right!

Danny Brown

littledog · 9th October 2006, 07:15 AM

I just wonder why you are limiting yourself to just those two options.

You could also get a matched pair of Josephson C42's for around the same price, for instance, among many other options.

Djembe · 9th October 2006, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Interestingly enough enough my KM84 started life as a KM85i!
A KM85i is a Flash Gordon looking hand held Nuemann.
There was a KM85i at a studio I worked at and everyone said it was broken.
I aquired it and opened it up to discover that inside was shock-mounted KM84!!!!
The KM84 was in perfect condition because it had been inside the body of the KM85i.
The XLR connector fits the KM85i body, so the KM84 portion has the larger back piece of the KM85 wire-tied to the body.
The wires come out of the KM84 body and go up to the XLR

I don't understand. A KM84 and a KM85 are exactly the same microphone, but with a different capsule. How can an 84 be "inside" an 85?

dbbubba · 9th October 2006, 08:08 AM

Well, I'll be!
It says "KMS85i" so a KMS85i must be the hand held version.
The "S" must designate the handheld version.

If the mic I have IN MY HAND AT THIS VERY MOMENT has KMS85i stamped on the bottom ring of the body, I'd bet it was a KMS85i.

To clarify, it is a handheld mic with a larger body tube than a KM84 and has an approximately 3" long "head" with four sets of three round holes around it. The holes have a really fine wire mesh and the end of the head also has the same fine mesh. Inside the "head" behind the holes is a foam material like a pop filter.

The internal KM84 portion looks like a standard issue KM84 except the body tube is a littler longer and doesn't have the back ring that holds the XLR connector.
It also had rubber shockmount rings that held it in the body.
Those crumbled away and I removed the remnants with GoofOff.
Otherwise it is a KM84.
I used to have two '80s era, greenish, matched pair KM84s.

This mic is all brushed aluminum.

This is an early '70s era mic I believe.
The people at Gotham said that they never imported this particular model.
I have seen the mic in older Nuemann literature.

Because the KM84 poertion was housed in the larger body, it was like finding a N.O.S. mic! The diaphragm had no way to realy get contaminated.

Danny Brown

nicklas · 11th May 2008, 02:21 AM

i just built my first studio using all akg mics, and I only play acoustic and sing solo, i find ldc akg mics to be perfect for creating effects that other mics would miss in a second. i have recorded for a year or more on sole 414 xls , now i have some xliis in the mail, a pair of 480b's also comes in handy although recording with only tw of them you cant get great vocals while they are miced on the guitar. for the solo guitar players..akg ldc's provide a way to use only two mics and have a perfect image of singing/playing...bottom line

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8th October 2006, 08:01 PM	#1
barryjohns Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 2,307	AKG C414B XLII or Shure SM81 for Acoustic Guitar or ???? I am in the process of upgrading all of my recording gear from lower to mid level, to upper mid to high end. I just purchased a new AKG C414B XLII mic. It retails for 999.00 and I got it for 750.00 (Scratch and Dent, although only the case was dented, the mic is in perfect condition). I can get another one for the same price. I've got 2 Chinese Knock-off Oktava ML012's. I use the AKG for my vocals; it’s the new version, which us much better for vocals than previous versions. I've recorded my acoustic with it as well and like what I hear, but want to be able to use two mics on my Acoustic. I have used my Oktava's with good results, but they are knock-off's so I don't know what two decent mics will sound like. Here's the deal. I want to be able to get great Acoustic Recordings. Would I be better of buying the second C414XLII to go with my existing one for 750.00 or buy two Shure SM81's for about the same price? I'd like to keep it based on new vice eBay for sake of discussion. Please look at my gear below. I'd probably need to buy another UA Solo 610 for the new C414 as well. If not the SM81's, any other recommendations. __________________ My hope is we will be able to debate our passion, vice argue a subjective point. Oh, if you ever want to talk about Jesus, PM me

9th October 2006, 01:45 AM	#7
barryjohns Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 2,307	Thanks for all the info. I am cancelling my order for the other AKG C414xlII. I just bought a used SM81 off Ebay for 225.00 that I will use in combination with the 414 I have now. Let me know if I've made a mistake. __________________ My hope is we will be able to debate our passion, vice argue a subjective point. Oh, if you ever want to talk about Jesus, PM me

9th October 2006, 01:57 AM	#8
Acoustic Cloud Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: around the corner Posts: 1,968	I have the XLII, and I like it. I have used it on acoustic, and it sounds good. Chords dont blow apart, the brightness is classy, not cheap sounding. My first go to for acoustic isnt LDC anyway, but the XLII is nice on vox and ac. guitar. Bottom line: Dont sell it to chase other gear. You will like it down the line. Many have chased many rabbits, only to start over. __________________ If the Earth wasnt created, where'd all the dirt come from?

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8th October 2006, 08:25 PM	#2
Jim vanBergen Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New York Friggin' City Posts: 2,269	Neumann KM84s or 85s, the tone and character are stunning and BIG! My $0.02

8th October 2006, 11:05 PM	#3
loaf Gear maniac Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 234	if the XL 11 is anything like the TL11 I'd avoid it for acoustic guitar. The sm81 is good, but really for strumming, no fancy stuff. If you can't get KM84's, gefell M300's are considered the closest, and if your budget is tight at4051's are good

8th October 2006, 11:52 PM	#5
Confusionator Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 398	Put the XLII on the body and the SM81 on the neck. Very good combination, which can be slagged by the slutz here only in relation to much more expensive gear. It's CERTAINLY a good enough combination for a major label release.

9th October 2006, 12:02 AM	#6
AmekGuy Lives for gear Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 741	Go with the SM81s. You can't go wrong with them and they also shine on live stereo recording applications.

9th October 2006, 02:03 AM	#9
max cooper Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: tx Posts: 8,819	I totally dig B-ULS on acoustic, but I wonder if anyone's used the Josephson C42 on acoustics?

9th October 2006, 07:08 AM	#11
dbbubba Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,640	I use SM81s live and with a good enough ACSTC they will work OK in recording situations. I'd go with a large consdenser if it was a solo ACSTC track or the ACTSC was doing anything other than strumming, rythm track stuff. The differences in 414s don't bother me that much. I'd prefer an older nickle body mic, but they all work. My number one ACSTC mic is my KM84 and has been for almost sixteen years. I also use it for solo fiddle, solo violin, mandolin, dobro, etc... Interestingly enough enough my KM84 started life as a KM85i! A KM85i is a Flash Gordon looking hand held Nuemann. There was a KM85i at a studio I worked at and everyone said it was broken. I aquired it and opened it up to discover that inside was shock-mounted KM84!!!! The KM84 was in perfect condition because it had been inside the body of the KM85i. The XLR connector fits the KM85i body, so the KM84 portion has the larger back piece of the KM85 wire-tied to the body. The wires come out of the KM84 body and go up to the XLR. It doesn't look too funky and it sounds gorgeous. I was recording a studio player friend and he said, "It looks like that mic that Tina Turner uses in Mad Max Return to the ThunderDome!" In the fine tradition of my other gear, it is a piece that someone else discarded and I repaired. It is good that so few people know how to repair stuff! "Yeah, that's no good anymore... give it to me, I'll throw it away for you." Right! Danny Brown

9th October 2006, 07:15 AM	#12
littledog Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston area Posts: 872	I just wonder why you are limiting yourself to just those two options. You could also get a matched pair of Josephson C42's for around the same price, for instance, among many other options.

9th October 2006, 08:08 AM	#14
dbbubba Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,640	Well, I'll be! It says "KMS85i" so a KMS85i must be the hand held version. The "S" must designate the handheld version. If the mic I have IN MY HAND AT THIS VERY MOMENT has KMS85i stamped on the bottom ring of the body, I'd bet it was a KMS85i. To clarify, it is a handheld mic with a larger body tube than a KM84 and has an approximately 3" long "head" with four sets of three round holes around it. The holes have a really fine wire mesh and the end of the head also has the same fine mesh. Inside the "head" behind the holes is a foam material like a pop filter. The internal KM84 portion looks like a standard issue KM84 except the body tube is a littler longer and doesn't have the back ring that holds the XLR connector. It also had rubber shockmount rings that held it in the body. Those crumbled away and I removed the remnants with GoofOff. Otherwise it is a KM84. I used to have two '80s era, greenish, matched pair KM84s. This mic is all brushed aluminum. This is an early '70s era mic I believe. The people at Gotham said that they never imported this particular model. I have seen the mic in older Nuemann literature. Because the KM84 poertion was housed in the larger body, it was like finding a N.O.S. mic! The diaphragm had no way to realy get contaminated. Danny Brown

11th May 2008, 02:21 AM	#15
nicklas Gear interested Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3	i just built my first studio using all akg mics, and I only play acoustic and sing solo, i find ldc akg mics to be perfect for creating effects that other mics would miss in a second. i have recorded for a year or more on sole 414 xls , now i have some xliis in the mail, a pair of 480b's also comes in handy although recording with only tw of them you cant get great vocals while they are miced on the guitar. for the solo guitar players..akg ldc's provide a way to use only two mics and have a perfect image of singing/playing...bottom line