George Massenburg at AES

[neve1073]

Did anyone else here attend that?
He's a really interesting, articulate and entertaining guy. His thoughts on the record industry were interesting. Not sure I share his optimism for surround though...

I felt kinda sorry for whoever was doing sound at his conference. Yeah, it was annoyingly incompetant; but, man, doing live sound at an aes convention must be terrifying.

[MWP]

My son attended the session and gave me an update last night. He said he got the impression that he was saying that he doesn't use plugins, not even his own,
because they were still inferior to the outboard gear. Is that the impression you got?

MWP

[dokushoka]

Originally Posted by MWP

My son attended the session and gave me an update last night. He said he got the impression that he was saying that he doesn't use plugins, not even his own,
because they were still inferior to the outboard gear. Is that the impression you got?

MWP

I've heard him say that he doesn't use plugins when he is doing anything where significant amounts of make up gain is required.

[neve1073]

I didn't stick around for the q and a, but during his talk he mentioned that "plugins are a total failiure..." hastening to add "with the exception of one or two." He jokingly referred to his own plugs. It wasn't clear exactly what he meant.

I took it to mean the total reliance on plug-ins to the exclusion of outboard--but i don't know for sure exactly what he meant.

[tINY]

I understood it as dissapointment in the quality of most of the plug ins.

He had a lot interesting things to say about the business.



-tINY

[Tetness]

When George walked by the Barefoot Sound booth, I cranked up one of his mixes from the Boogie Nights soundtrack and he was beaming. He boasted, "Hey, I did that! That's me!" I smiled and nodded at him as I cranked it up even more...and we bounced knuckles.

[cajonezzz]

first off: can the house sound guys not get it figured out any better than that? like, maybe walk the room for a sec to hear that it was ringing THE WHOLE TIME?

ok, as far as the comments from GM.

#1 for me was when the mod asked what he considers his biggest success and source of pride, and it was "being a good father" .

#2 was when he said that when that you compare your work to stuff that's our there ( and sucsessful) and the little voice inside says yours isn't as good--- it probably isn't.

#3 was when he said be willing to trust the little voice, and move on from a project. ( that was huge and pertinent for me right now in a couple projects i'm doing just for the paycheck)

Cool guy it seems, I'm kicking myself that I didn't have the stones to get up and ask him about the early EWF drum tracking.

GM, if your here, you wanna tell us how you tracked drums on the early EWF stuff?


It was definitely worth going to, but gosh--- between the crap sound at the Abbey road Historical, and the crappier sound at GM's..... it was a little rough.

[Haolemon]

Is there a recording or transcript of this anywhere? I'd love to know exactly what he was referring to about plug ins.

[dave-G]

Originally Posted by cajonezzz

#1 for me was when the mod asked what he considers his biggest success and source of pride, and it was "being a good father".

Same here. And that he moved away from his work-base to do it (I can relate).

Cool guy it seems, I'm kicking myself that I didn't have the stones to get up and ask him about the early EWF drum tracking.

GM, if your here, you wanna tell us how you tracked drums on the early EWF stuff?

I'm no GM, but I'm guessing the reply would go like this "blah blah blah Maurice's hair blah blah" .. (based on the replies I've heard when others have asked at other seminars/lectures)

It was definitely worth going to, but gosh--- between the crap sound at the Abbey road Historical, and the crappier sound at GM's..... it was a little rough.

It was nice of him to praise the sound crew at the beginning, but by the time the second hour of steady-state ringing passed, I think they should have been benched in favor of one of the attendees in the crowd.

btw: where did you and Mobb end up? I lost track of you guys
-dave

[audiogeek1]

Originally Posted by Haolemon

Is there a recording or transcript of this anywhere? I'd love to know exactly what he was referring to about plug ins.

The basic gist I got from him about plugins was that they pail in comparrison to the origonal versions. The Fairchild 670 plug is not a real 670 and is really nothing like it.
He did say that there were a few good plugins out there but the thing we need to do is listen. I was impressed by that. I think that is something a lot of people forget to do. They listen with their eyes. it says "whatever brand name" so it must be the bomb. Just a pet peeve of mine.

Hope that helps as far as the plug in thing goes. The rest you can just toss out if you like.

Mike

[cajonezzz]

Originally Posted by dave-G

btw: where did you and Mobb end up? I lost track of you guys
-dave

We went to your yummy Thai place, sat with Mike ( Wunder) and his wife - listened to some cool gear stories and learned alot ( even more went over my head) Nice folks. We saw you early on but lost track of you before dinner finished.

Mobb talked shop and i turned in early ( licking my wounds from the night before)

I'm glad AES only comes to our hood every other year.

I'm tired.

[Jules]

Originally Posted by Tetness

When George walked by the Barefoot Sound booth, I cranked up one of his mixes from the Boogie Nights soundtrack and he was beaming. He boasted, "Hey, I did that! That's me!" I smiled and nodded at him as I cranked it up even more...and we bounced knuckles.

I watched Elliot Schiener getting a demo of Toto played to him by DB on ADAM monitors...

I guess you monitor designer types lie in wait to ambush the engineer & producer super-stars with their own material as they pass by!!

[tunasafedolphin]

I agree with Craig, that was my number 1 as well.

That aside, I enjoyed his remarks on the state of the industry and what his thoughts were regarding it's downfall... Although I'm not sure about the Sony prediction. Maybe someone should've taken the bet?

-C

[Mike Derrick]

Originally Posted by tunasafedolphin

I agree with Craig, that was my number 1 as well.

That aside, I enjoyed his remarks on the state of the industry and what his thoughts were regarding it's downfall... Although I'm not sure about the Sony prediction. Maybe someone should've taken the bet?

-C

ok, I'm curious,...I wasn't there, what was the Sony prediction,...and how much was the bet??? some GM hardware perhaps....

[ulysses]

I thought by far the most notable moment in the EQ panel was when the moderator asked GM to define "phase shift." Massenburg just said "No."
At first I thought, "What a dick!" but then as the discussion continued the panel as a whole presented a more or less unified front with the opinion that phase shift (or lack thereof) in equalizers is a red herring, along the lines of "discrete" and "class A" and misses the point entirely.
I think the moderator, and many people in the audience, sat there going, "yeah, but what is it?" In that respect, I think the panel failed to meet the audience's genuine technical interest. This is the AES, not some prosumer recording mag. We're supposed to get into technical detail.

[Brad Blackwood]

Originally Posted by ulysses

I thought by far the most notable moment in the EQ panel was when the moderator asked GM to define "phase shift." Massenburg just said "No."
At first I thought, "What a dick!" but then as the discussion continued the panel as a whole presented a more or less unified front with the opinion that phase shift (or lack thereof) in equalizers is a red herring, along the lines of "discrete" and "class A" and misses the point entirely.
I think the moderator, and many people in the audience, sat there going, "yeah, but what is it?" In that respect, I think the panel failed to meet the audience's genuine technical interest. This is the AES, not some prosumer recording mag. We're supposed to get into technical detail.

I think GM's refusal to discuss the most basic aspects of recording are well founded - he shouldn't need to explain the most rudimentary things at AES, people can learn that stuff on their own time.

[Tetness]

Originally Posted by Jules

I watched Elliot Schiener getting a demo of Toto played to him by DB on ADAM monitors...

I guess you monitor designer types lie in wait to ambush the engineer & producer super-stars with their own material as they pass by!!

Gotta do something to spice things up

[neve1073]

Originally Posted by Mike Derrick

ok, I'm curious,...I wasn't there, what was the Sony prediction,...and how much was the bet??? some GM hardware perhaps....

he was willing to bet anyone in the audience $1000 that sony would be out of the music business within 3 (i think) years.

i think that was it.

[7om]

Originally Posted by neve1073

he was willing to bet anyone in the audience $1000 that sony would be out of the music business within 3 (i think) years.

i think that was it.

Yeah, I recall $1000 that they are out in 3 years as well. I was tempted to take him up on the offer except that I hope he is right.

[7om]

Originally Posted by MWP

My son attended the session and gave me an update last night. He said he got the impression that he was saying that he doesn't use plugins, not even his own,
because they were still inferior to the outboard gear. Is that the impression you got?

MWP

In the surround break-out sessions on Saturday, he brought up a Pro Tools session he is currently working on. Many tracks had one plug-in assigned. It looked like it might have been exlusively MDW EQ's.

[7om]

Originally Posted by neve1073

Not sure I share his optimism for surround though...

I didn't at first, but I was converted over the course of the show, particularly during the breakout sessions. Ronald Prent's mix was massive and not at all gimicky, which is something that I can't say for some of the early surround mixes I have heard.

I think the guys on the surround panel are beginning to articulate a "vocabulary" of very musical approaches to surround. While there have been snags in market acceptance, I believe it is only a matter of time, perhaps as much as several years. In the interim, I admire the committment of the guys on this panel to mix in surround until the rest of the world catches up.

[OHA]

Originally Posted by neve1073

he was willing to bet anyone in the audience $1000 that sony would be out of the music business within 3 (i think) years.

i think that was it.

Did he say why?

[dave-G]

Originally Posted by neve1073

he was willing to bet anyone in the audience $1000 that sony would be out of the music business within 3 (i think) years.

i think that was it.

Given the interesting distinction he was making between the music business and the record business, I think the bet was more specifically about the latter .. labels and such.

-dave

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by Haolemon

Is there a recording or transcript of this anywhere? I'd love to know exactly what he was referring to about plug ins.

Hey,

I think every single thing that happened at the AES was recorded and the CD's were sold.

Good luck finding it,
Pupo

[Jim Williams]

Was he still flogging that tired old song about "surround" being the future? He did a local AES event in LA a few years ago. They charged admission for it! He suggested to overcome the new paragrahm of MP-3 and bit reduced releases/broadcasting was to mix in surround. He suggested everyone dump their analog console, adapt to the new lower standards and use a Yamaha digital mixer, in surround. No mention on how that was to get into a boom box or Ipod.

Needless to say, he had over half the room scratching their heads wondering if George had lost it.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[barefoot]

Personally, I don 't worry about the whole mp3 quality reduction thing. It may be a challenge for the record companies to figure out how to make money. Nevertheless, I don't think it's a long-term issue for quality recording. Consumers will always choose convenience over quality. However, if they can get better quality with the same level of convenience, they'll undoubtedly go for it. When internet bandwidth and iPod capacity increase to the point where you can download music at CD quality or better just as fast as an mp3 and still hold the same number of songs, that will be the norm. And those days are very near.

I don't know what the future of surround is. But getting high quality audio back into the ears of consumers will just come naturally with increasing connection speeds and portable storage capacity.

Thomas

[Sui_City]

Originally Posted by barefoot

Personally, I don 't worry about the whole mp3 quality reduction thing. It may be a challenge for the record companies to figure out how to make money. Nevertheless, I don't think it's a long-term issue for quality recording. Consumers will always choose convenience over quality. However, if they can get better quality with the same level of convenience, they'll undoubtedly go for it. When internet bandwidth and iPod capacity increase to the point where you can download music at CD quality or better just as fast as an mp3 and still hold the same number of songs, that will be the norm. And those days are very near.

Thomas

Thomas,

it's even easier than that. With all the companies, Apple included, working on lossless compression algos, the problem of poor quality will indeed be a thing of the past.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Sui_City

Thomas,

it's even easier than that. With all the companies, Apple included, working on lossless compression algos, the problem of poor quality will indeed be a thing of the past.

And in the meantime, better sound relative to that format is still heard ... in any format.

[Sui_City]

Originally Posted by lucey

And in the meantime, better sound relative to that format is still heard ... in any format.

Sorry Lucey, could you elaborate?

[barefoot]

Originally Posted by Sui_City

it's even easier than that. With all the companies, Apple included, working on lossless compression algos, the problem of poor quality will indeed be a thing of the past.

Yes, that's another part of the equation. And plenty of lossless compression algorithms already exist. Although, from my understanding most work very close to the theoretical maximum compression ratio. But yeah, the capacity is coming from all directions.