Talent, Practice, and getting better

[Gavin]

I found an interesting article on the issue of how much of success and expertise comes from talent and how much comes from practice. The one thing that really stuck me, and it's not earth shattering but it certainly got me thinking about how I work.

Instead, the key to dramatic improvement in any field is -- that's right -- practice. But, it has to be what Ericsson calls "deliberate practice."

"A lot of people like to do things that they’re already good at, but what deliberate practice says is you need to find those things that you are weak at and that there’s room for improvement and that’s the activity you should focus on," Ericsson says.

Here's the original article.

The idea of course is that if you keep doing the same thing, even if you think you're practicing, you may not actually be learning all that much. I find myself often just playing in the same style and recording with the same structure. It's not just hours logged, I have to take the time to recognize and analyze weaknesses and then practice on them.

It's all too easy to practice what I already know how to do -- and that's probably not where I need improvement. Maybe I'm just stating the obvious but, at least for me, it's worth taking a step back and examining.

[toolskid]

10 practice what you don't know, not what you do

20 pause

30 go back and practice what you thought you knew and now realise you didn't

40 goto 10

[ArcCirDude]

If you're playing what you already know, you're not practicing, you're just playing. Musical masturbation....

[kevinc]

At the same time there is something to be said for really mastering what you do love to do and do well. I`m not really into the idea of practicing music I don`t get off on just to improve what I allready do well.

Jack of all trades master of none.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by ArcCirDude

If you're playing what you already know, you're not practicing, you're just playing. Musical masturbation....

I think there are different ways of 'improving', some of them are quite subtle.
To me, rhythm and phrasing are the most important aspect of playing and I find endless possibilities in 'details'. Say learn a B.B King guitar solo and be blown away by the incredibal attention to phrasing, push-pull and dynamics/tone that he delivers within a very narrow spectrum as far as scales and harmony are concerned.

Take drummers: so often you find young guys with amazing chops and tricks yet they are unable to REALLY master a simple backbeat. Often it's just that they take it for granted and actually don't pay enough attention to what's really going on.

At least here in Switzerland and Germany I often run into guys who consider say Charlie Watts to be a bad drummer yet they have NO idea how to command a groove as Mr. Watts so expertedly does. Again, it's within a very narrow framework and it's just a shame that so many musicians equal 'good' playing with complicated or sophisticated playing.

While it is surely good to learn new scales, practicing by simply running them up and down in consecutive steps will most likely result in doing just that on the bandstand. And there are enough people doing that, especially in the jazz field. It bores me to death and I'd rather hear Albert King milk one note for all its worth.

Naturally it's always good to learn new stuff but remember that music is art and not science.I often prefer somebody that does one thing really well to the jack-of-all-trades.

And there's also something to be said about just PLAYING music. I remember an interview with the late, great Curtis Mayfield when he made the analogy to making love. 'You don't practice making love, you just do it'.

[joaquin]

Originally Posted by ArcCirDude

If you're playing what you already know, you're not practicing, you're just playing. Musical masturbation....

I'm not sure if you are talking about technique, but...I practice exercises and scales at least an hour a day per instrument that I play just to keep in shape. It's also for me some sort of meditation. Now, I totally agree with expanding your musical horizons in any posible way.

[joaquin]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

....And there's also something to be said about just PLAYING music. I remember an interview with the late, great Curtis Mayfield when he made the analogy to making love. 'You don't practice making love, you just do it'.

but...the more you do it...the better you get at it

[Cornvalley]

I believe in starting your practice session with what you are familiar with and then adding the newness of something else to that. As in memory, having bridges to things already learned and assimilated is what helps progressive steps in advancing skill.
Great topic.

[ArcCirDude]

Ok... Let me elaborate. I have a 45 minute daily warmup that I've been doing for 20 years consisting of lip slurs, all the modes of the ascending melodic minor (jazz) scale (in all 12 keys) and a technical exercise from the lowest note on my instrument to the highest I can manage. I have to do this before I can begin to make music. Trumpet is a beast. That done, I will work on a new tune (learn the head/changes in all 12 keys) or a difficult part on a known tune. Something new. After that I'll take a break, come back and then PLAY. MAKE MUSIC! Without thinking. I'll play about 15 minutes of random thoughts... Purely spontanious.

Now, what I'm trying to say is that if you pick up axe and play the same BB King solo every day because you think it sounds so great, you are doing yourself a disservice. Self imposed stagnation. Learning the intricasies of a solo is indeed important and should be part of the learning of a solo. Emulation. But once you have learned it, move on! Who gives a flying sheep shit if you sound just like BB playing the solo? We already HAVE a BB... Learning others styles is of course part of the process of discovering yourself, so get on with it!

Anyhow, approach practice in an organized way. Write yourself a schedule of things you want to learn. Set realistic goals and by all means be patient! It takes as long as it takes.

[joaquin]

I think that my main goal as a musician is to discover my Music Persona, then Learn all the nesessary tools so this "Persona" is able to communicate seamlessly at all times. That usually requires many, many...many hours of practice. The more you do it the sooner you'll be able to talk. So it's usually at the younger years when someone has the Time to put in to that. Once you reach close enough to your Performance phisical limits, and are able to express your Ideas...then one usually needs a daily dosis of exercise to maintain those Hard earned chops.
now, this is all IMHO " usually " for there are always Unique Brilliant Individuals that don't do shite and Rock the House!

[waxnsteel]

Great theory













in a vacuum.

It's not what you know, or what you can do, it's who knows what you know, and what you can do, whether they like you, and/or whether they think they can sell it.

I believe in practice as a route to improvement, not to success in the industry. A baseball coach I had told me, "Work from your weaknesses, and your strengths will take care of themselves." I thought it was great advice. He only said it once, and it stuck with me.

If you want to improve, practice. If you wanna be famous, light yourself on fire, or grow an arm out of your ass.

[tgrokz]

the way i always saw it, was i was always naturally good at drums and percussion. i started teaching myself in the 4th grade. it didn't take me all to long to develop a solid rythm and style, and to be able to isolate my hands and feet. never took a lesson in my life, but i certinly did practice a lot. i started playing guitar about 2 years ago, and i still can't get the damn thing down. moving my hand up and down the frett board is very difficult for me. my friends say i have "dumb fingers". point im getting at is, i was naturally more inclined to play the drums and percussion, and with practice, i mastered them. i have been practicing guitar almsot every day for 2 years, and i still can't move my fingers and hand fast enough to play differient notes in a progression. im sure with more and more practice ill get better, but it took MUCH less time to pick up percussion than guitar. anyone can do or play anything with enough practice, but i think people just have natural inclinations to certain things.

[firby]

I could really ramble on about this subject as I am classically trained on serveral instruments. But I wont. (your welcome!). Here is the point that I want to make.


If you are practicing or playing alone or whatever please take some time and play with a click track. The one should be a different sound than the rest. I use a cowbell on one and stick clicks on the rest depending on the time signature.

Since the dawn of man there have been people who can't groove to a click. So many people ... that many people (including many here on gearslutz) believe that you cant groove to a click or you cant groove to a click and a song at the same time.

For shame you talentless dickwads. 15 minutes a day with a click track will forever change your abilities. This is not a only a drummer thing. Every musician should do it. It will change your life for the better and make you magnitudes better than you would be without it.

If you groove alot better when you are surrounded by great players then you already know the change that this can make.

And think about it this way. You now have a reason to go out and buy something shiny to program your click track on !

Keep Swingin.

[drockfresh]

Originally Posted by firby

I could really ramble on about this subject as I am classically trained on serveral instruments. But I wont. (your welcome!). Here is the point that I want to make.


If you are practicing or playing alone or whatever please take some time and play with a click track. The one should be a different sound than the rest. I use a cowbell on one and stick clicks on the rest depending on the time signature.

Since the dawn of man there have been people who can't groove to a click. So many people ... that many people (including many here on gearslutz) believe that you cant groove to a click or you cant groove to a click and a song at the same time.

For shame you talentless dickwads. 15 minutes a day with a click track will forever change your abilities. This is not a only a drummer thing. Every musician should do it. It will change your life for the better and make you magnitudes better than you would be without it.

If you groove alot better when you are surrounded by great players then you already know the change that this can make.

And think about it this way. You now have a reason to go out and buy something shiny to program your click track on !

Keep Swingin.

Great post. I totally agree and was just about to post about the essential use of the metronome when practicing... When I first started using one on everything I practice years back it improved my playing more than anything else.

[ArcCirDude]

Originally Posted by firby

If you are practicing or playing alone or whatever please take some time and play with a click track. The one should be a different sound than the rest. I use a cowbell on one and stick clicks on the rest depending on the time signature.

Since the dawn of man there have been people who can't groove to a click. So many people ... that many people (including many here on gearslutz) believe that you cant groove to a click or you cant groove to a click and a song at the same time.

For shame you talentless dickwads. 15 minutes a day with a click track will forever change your abilities. This is not a only a drummer thing. Every musician should do it. It will change your life for the better and make you magnitudes better than you would be without it.

If you groove alot better when you are surrounded by great players then you already know the change that this can make.

And think about it this way. You now have a reason to go out and buy something shiny to program your click track on !

Keep Swingin.

I wholeheartedly concur!

[Beauarts]

Absolutely. Scales are like weight lifting. It gives you the foundation to do other, more elaborate things. Even playing simple scales can be extremely productive if you concentrate on certain aspects, such as timing, fingering, phrasing, breathing, etc. when you're playing along with a metronome.

Originally Posted by joaquin

I'm not sure if you are talking about technique, but...I practice exercises and scales at least an hour a day per instrument that I play just to keep in shape. It's also for me some sort of meditation. Now, I totally agree with expanding your musical horizons in any posible way.

[toolskid]

Originally Posted by firby

The one should be a different sound than the rest. I use a cowbell on one and stick clicks on the rest depending on the time signature.

Id have to disagree with this (and point out that I cant make this french keyboard Im typing on produce an apostrophe!!!!!) , occasionally marking the one is useful (with some odd time pieces) but more often than not focuses you too strongly on the click instead of your groove. I meet a lot of drummers who are playing TO the click and within its paremeters per bar, but dont groove at all, rather than playing WITH the click and making it swing!!! ymmvbybw