Problems Wtih RMG tape?

Mike Caffrey · 2nd October 2006, 09:01 PM

I've been using EMTEC SM900 for years. I've got a failrly big supply and it often gets recycled after transferring to digitial.

I record to tape on almost all of my tracking sessions but overdubs and mixing is digital, so that tapes and the machine aren't worked as hard as they were 20 years ago.

I've never had problems with my tapes shedding.

Recently a cleint insisted on buying his own new reels and bought 2 reels of RMG SM900. The first thin I noticed is that the edges wern't perfectly smooth and when I rewound off of the new reel on to the playback reel, a whole chunk of tape ripped off of the edge of the last 6-8 inches as if it was stuck to the flange when it came from the factory. That's about 1/4 second of a second, so it's no big deal, but I've never seen that happen.

We did the session no problem. The next traking session I had, the client decided to go to tape at the last minute, so I through a reel of my tape on. Upon playback I was having problems with two channels. It was intermittent but getting progressively worse and the output was droppoing. It was on a distorted room mic and a tom track, but of which were fixable with a digital gian boost later.

Yesterday I took some time to realign and reseat cards looking for an eletronic problem or osme kind of massilve alignment drift (no more than a half dB).

When I inspected the heads and the rest of the tape path, I found a brown stripe running across the heads and the problem channels. A tape had shed there.

Now, I can't say that I've inspected every tape that's possibly responsible, but I've never had this problem before putting on that RMG tape. I'm 99% sure that's the one responsible for the shed.

Has anyone else had problems with shed straight out of the box?

Jay Kahrs · 2nd October 2006, 09:35 PM

The ONLY time I've ever run into the kinds of things you're seeing it was with GP9, when they had slitting problems and let a whole bunch of reels out...

The problems were mostly contained to tracks 1 & 24...MAD timecode dropouts, but there was some pretty scary shedding from the tape bouncing up & down on the path...

I was seeing randomly long slivers of tape...like 1/16" wide (if that!) by a few inches long...

Scary stuff.

I switched SM911 for the next record that came in and had zero problems...Quantegy offered to replace the reels but whuddabout the record that was on them???

Sounds like something might be wonky with the binding agent on the RMG? I haven't tried any of their tape yet.

Rick Sutton · 2nd October 2006, 10:17 PM

You might want to start a more rigorous cleaning schedule for your tape machine. you'll not only keep your machine clean but you'll be able to keep track of how tapes are running on your heads.

I always clean the tape path and demagnatize my tape machine at the end of each day that it is used, more often if required. That way you always start up with a clean machine.

And yes, I have seen tape shed on new, out of the box tape. Rare, but it can happen.
The first thing you check when a tape machine starts dropping level and/or high freq. is the heads.

I would also inspect the tape path very carefully in case you have a rough spot or bad head gap that could be causing this type of problem. If you suspect one tape, turn it over and run it to see if the problem shifts position on the heads or remains in the same spot.

Musiclab · 3rd October 2006, 12:22 AM

Did you clean the heads and the tape path? I would see how tapes you know are behaving after you've cleaned everything. If they're OK then move on to the suspect 900

shanew · 3rd October 2006, 02:08 AM

I used EMTEC 900 exclusively for my half inch printing for years.

I was deeply saddened when the formulation went away and horded as much of Nashville's remaining stock as I could find.

Imagine my joy when I heard that the formulation was going to be revived.

I bought the first case that came to Nashville and, after A/Bing against another formulation with the producer, we used the 900 to print his project.

I found it very difficult to get the machine alligned and thought I was noticing some shed. I chalked it up to various reasons and kept a close eye on cleaning the heads while we printed.

I thought everything was cool.

The next Monday, I received a call from mastering that they couldn't even allign their machine for playback because the heads were "gumming up."

Fortunately I had backed up the tape to Masterlink via my UA 2192 and they were able to master from that.

I've yet to hear back from the company about what they were able to find from the tape that I sent back to them, but I hope they resolve the problem and will give them the benefit of the doubt when they tell me that they do.

In the mean time, I advise those using the tape to keep a close eye on their heads and guides for shedding and make sure that you make a safety to a digital medium straight off of your playback head while you're recording.

Peace,
sdw

Mike Caffrey · 3rd October 2006, 07:24 AM

I've used my tapes since and had no shed.

I dont want to put the suspect ones back on the machine.

DigitalMahem · 12th October 2006, 09:37 PM

Hmmmmmmmm We haven't seen a bit of shedding yet and went through quite a bit of SM900, especially 1/2". It's always possible you got a bad roll. You might want to get the code off the tape box and let them know about it. They'll take care of it for you as RMG is very good about this sort of thing.

My experience is if there's any residue like that at a particular spot on the heads, it's because something is or was abrading the tape at that spot either on the heads or on a tape guide. All it takes is a small piece of dirt. I've never seen a roll of tape have shedding only over 1/50" somewhere within the body of the tape. I can see maybe the edges but not neatly within the body of the tape. Also, the abrading could have easily occurred in the past and the residue more or less stuck to the tape until your recent use, especially if the abrading happened on the last tape guide during a prior guide.

shanew · 12th October 2006, 09:48 PM

I heard from RMG today about my shedding problems.

They examined the reels I sent back and discovered that I had received some reels that were not supposed to have been released from the plant. The tape was diffective and they knew it, but somehow it made it out of the plant for resale.

They were very cool about it and are kicking in some extra tape for my troubles.

Peace,
sdw

mpr3 · 13th October 2006, 03:53 AM

Love the new SM900. GP9 is still very good, but the 900 is a bit umm fuller sounding? Words cannot properly describe the differences.

So far so good with 6 reels of SM900.

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2nd October 2006, 09:01 PM	#1
Mike Caffrey Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,593	Problems Wtih RMG tape? I've been using EMTEC SM900 for years. I've got a failrly big supply and it often gets recycled after transferring to digitial. I record to tape on almost all of my tracking sessions but overdubs and mixing is digital, so that tapes and the machine aren't worked as hard as they were 20 years ago. I've never had problems with my tapes shedding. Recently a cleint insisted on buying his own new reels and bought 2 reels of RMG SM900. The first thin I noticed is that the edges wern't perfectly smooth and when I rewound off of the new reel on to the playback reel, a whole chunk of tape ripped off of the edge of the last 6-8 inches as if it was stuck to the flange when it came from the factory. That's about 1/4 second of a second, so it's no big deal, but I've never seen that happen. We did the session no problem. The next traking session I had, the client decided to go to tape at the last minute, so I through a reel of my tape on. Upon playback I was having problems with two channels. It was intermittent but getting progressively worse and the output was droppoing. It was on a distorted room mic and a tom track, but of which were fixable with a digital gian boost later. Yesterday I took some time to realign and reseat cards looking for an eletronic problem or osme kind of massilve alignment drift (no more than a half dB). When I inspected the heads and the rest of the tape path, I found a brown stripe running across the heads and the problem channels. A tape had shed there. Now, I can't say that I've inspected every tape that's possibly responsible, but I've never had this problem before putting on that RMG tape. I'm 99% sure that's the one responsible for the shed. Has anyone else had problems with shed straight out of the box?

3rd October 2006, 12:22 AM	#4
Musiclab Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Elmont NY Posts: 3,202	Did you clean the heads and the tape path? I would see how tapes you know are behaving after you've cleaned everything. If they're OK then move on to the suspect 900 __________________ Lou Gimenez www.musiclabnyc.com

12th October 2006, 09:37 PM	#7
DigitalMahem Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 59	RMG Tape Hmmmmmmmm We haven't seen a bit of shedding yet and went through quite a bit of SM900, especially 1/2". It's always possible you got a bad roll. You might want to get the code off the tape box and let them know about it. They'll take care of it for you as RMG is very good about this sort of thing. My experience is if there's any residue like that at a particular spot on the heads, it's because something is or was abrading the tape at that spot either on the heads or on a tape guide. All it takes is a small piece of dirt. I've never seen a roll of tape have shedding only over 1/50" somewhere within the body of the tape. I can see maybe the edges but not neatly within the body of the tape. Also, the abrading could have easily occurred in the past and the residue more or less stuck to the tape until your recent use, especially if the abrading happened on the last tape guide during a prior guide.

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2nd October 2006, 10:17 PM	#3
Rick Sutton Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Atascadero, CA Posts: 1,843	You might want to start a more rigorous cleaning schedule for your tape machine. you'll not only keep your machine clean but you'll be able to keep track of how tapes are running on your heads. I always clean the tape path and demagnatize my tape machine at the end of each day that it is used, more often if required. That way you always start up with a clean machine. And yes, I have seen tape shed on new, out of the box tape. Rare, but it can happen. The first thing you check when a tape machine starts dropping level and/or high freq. is the heads. I would also inspect the tape path very carefully in case you have a rough spot or bad head gap that could be causing this type of problem. If you suspect one tape, turn it over and run it to see if the problem shifts position on the heads or remains in the same spot.

3rd October 2006, 02:08 AM	#5
shanew Gear Head Join Date: May 2003 Location: Nashville,TN Posts: 73	I used EMTEC 900 exclusively for my half inch printing for years. I was deeply saddened when the formulation went away and horded as much of Nashville's remaining stock as I could find. Imagine my joy when I heard that the formulation was going to be revived. I bought the first case that came to Nashville and, after A/Bing against another formulation with the producer, we used the 900 to print his project. I found it very difficult to get the machine alligned and thought I was noticing some shed. I chalked it up to various reasons and kept a close eye on cleaning the heads while we printed. I thought everything was cool. The next Monday, I received a call from mastering that they couldn't even allign their machine for playback because the heads were "gumming up." Fortunately I had backed up the tape to Masterlink via my UA 2192 and they were able to master from that. I've yet to hear back from the company about what they were able to find from the tape that I sent back to them, but I hope they resolve the problem and will give them the benefit of the doubt when they tell me that they do. In the mean time, I advise those using the tape to keep a close eye on their heads and guides for shedding and make sure that you make a safety to a digital medium straight off of your playback head while you're recording. Peace, sdw

3rd October 2006, 07:24 AM	#6
Mike Caffrey Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,593	I've used my tapes since and had no shed. I dont want to put the suspect ones back on the machine.

12th October 2006, 09:48 PM	#8
shanew Gear Head Join Date: May 2003 Location: Nashville,TN Posts: 73	I heard from RMG today about my shedding problems. They examined the reels I sent back and discovered that I had received some reels that were not supposed to have been released from the plant. The tape was diffective and they knew it, but somehow it made it out of the plant for resale. They were very cool about it and are kicking in some extra tape for my troubles. Peace, sdw

13th October 2006, 03:53 AM	#9
mpr3 Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Clemente, CA Posts: 333	Love the new SM900. GP9 is still very good, but the 900 is a bit umm fuller sounding? Words cannot properly describe the differences. So far so good with 6 reels of SM900.