Test your ears!

[Schaap]

Dear MasterGearslutzers,

Would you be so kind to help me with this semi-scientific test. Most of you
are trained to use your hearing and some even seems to have ‘golden ears’.
We have made the two wav-audiofiles(16 bit, 44.1 kHz) so identical as we think we could achieve.

It is absolutely evident for unbiased opinion that you first listen to the two files and make up your mind(please do so!) before you investigate the two audiofiles. If the files are too large for you, it is convenient to load the two files in your audiosequencer and e.g. loop a small part. Then toggle the files with alt. muting the other.


The question is: Do you hear a difference between the two audiofiles? And if you do, which audiofile do you prefer, A or B?

http://www.peterfernay.nl/testfiles.htm


We appreciate your feedback in this forum and thank you for your time.

The music is from Jethro Tull. It is a part of the intro of track called The Whistler’ from the album ‘Songs from the Wood’.


Regards,

Henk Schaap,
Netherlands

[chester]

hi,

for me there is no difference they sound excactly the same.

[Nordenstam]

Sorry if this comes across as offensive, but you've just wasted two of my minutes on this bogus test.

Originally Posted by Schaap

We have made the two wav-audiofiles(16 bit, 44.1 kHz) so identical as we think we could achieve.

As identical as we could achieve.. IMHO, that's not a big feat. Copying computer files are guaranteed to give the same results, less some extremely serious error should arrise and then the machine would warn that the copy command failed.

The files looks identical, they sum to zero when polarity is reversed in one file and when checked in a hex editor, the data chunk is identical in the beginning and ends of the files. Didn't check the middle though.


They're identical - so why shouldn't they sound different?

Of course they do! Things always sounds different from each second to the next. The human touch. If "A sounds better" according to enough "golden ears", A will sound better to most readers of this forum. That doesn't mean there IS a difference.

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by Lupo

Sorry if this comes across as offensive, but you've just wasted two of my minutes on this bogus test.

Hah! If you truly had Golden Ears, you would hear that there are enormous differences beween the two tracks!

The bloom, vibrancy and "authentic-ness", is a skillion times better on "B."

You're welcome,


DC

[Ged Leitch]

Originally Posted by dcollins

Hah! If you truly had Golden Ears, you would hear that there are enormous differences beween the two tracks!

The bloom, vibrancy and "authentic-ness", is a skillion times better on "B."

You're welcome,


DC

and the 2nd one sounds more analog!

[djui5]

Originally Posted by dcollins

Hah! If you truly had Golden Ears, you would hear that there are enormous differences beween the two tracks!

The bloom, vibrancy and "authentic-ness", is a skillion times better on "B."

You're welcome,


DC

The top end is a dead giveaway. Not everyone can hear it though.

[tvck]

Originally Posted by Schaap

Dear MasterGearslutzers,


The question is: Do you hear a difference between the two audiofiles? And if you do, which audiofile do you prefer, A or B?


We appreciate your feedback in this forum and thank you for your time.




Regards,

Henk Schaap,
Netherlands

Would you mind telling me what these files are supposed to represent, regarding possible differences? i.e. what is the test for?

[MASSIVE Master]

[djui5]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

A was mastered by you?

[Larrchild]

The high end on A makes my cats (and me) run around the room, angrily.

B sounds pretty creamy, like it found a Sontec or something.

[stevep]

Lupo .The files looks identical, they sum to zero when polarity is reversed in one file and when checked in a hex editor, the data chunk is identical in the beginning and ends of the files. Didn't check the middle though.


They're identical - so why shouldn't they sound different?

Sound the same to me

[stevep]

I like the drums in # 3








.

[Schaap]

Thanks for the replies, really appreciate it! I hope it continues, the more the better!
Again, it is a listeningtest, so trust your ears and give your opinion please based on what you hear.

I cannot give you details yet, because it maybe could bias you.tutt
We posted this on several other forums and platforms, all related in a way to audio.

Thanks for your time


Henk

[Schaap]

Oh, If you can listen to the files with your monitors in your controlroom that would be great.

Henk

[blaugruen7]

B is louder

[Schaap]

Got some feedback that the files are too 'busy' to evaluate properly. Maybe you should concentrate on a part of it and/or listen to e.g. percussion(bells, xylophone) or the bass etc.

Henk

[Schaap]

Sorry to bother you again.
I posted some extra small pieces of the intro about 2.5 sec., file C and D.
You can loop these files and toggle between the two, hopefully in your controlroom.


Thanks again.

Henk

[Nordenstam]

Henk, can you do me a favour? Please tell me which of these sentences looks best to you!

Henk, can you do me a favour? Please tell me which of these sentences looks best to you!

...

Oh, try this one too! Please do not be biased by checking for any similarity with the other sentence, just read with an open mind and tell me which sentence looks best to you.

Oh, try this one too! Please do not be biased by checking for any similarity with the other sentence, just read with an open mind and tell me which sentence looks best to you.

....

We posted this on several other forums and platforms, all related in a way to audio.

You did what??

Why do you spam the net by posting identical files, wasting peoples time? What's the agenda?

If you're set on proving that identical files may sound different you're like a century too late. It's a known fact that the minds ability to shape sound psychologically is very strong.



Can't belive I replied to this! I need a life.

[Schaap]

We have added a flute and harp recording of STSdigital . Labeled as E and F on the link. Maybe this is a better file for comparision. Anyway it is a very nice recording.

www.peterfernay.nl/testfiles.htm


Henk

[limeni]

Track B sound more warm. Think you cut hi end freq. or you are using limiter

[just.sounds]

Hi
Just did the test.
loaded 2 files in PT
First I a/b them for half a minute but could not find any obvious differences.

then i inverted one out of curiosity. complete silence.

recorded the silence and amplified it 120dB still nothing

so this should be very very the same.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by just.sounds

Hi
then i inverted one out of curiosity. complete silence.
.

Almost.. The "difference" is something around -123 dBFS...
Something makes me prefer #2, this may not hold up to double-blind, though. Seems a touch smoother. Dunno...
Apart from that, quite a nice recording.

D.

[Tom H]

Listened to the flute and harp on headphones: E seemed to have a little more air in the flute... will check in the studio later.

Both sounded nice to my ears so far by the way, nothing wrong with the recording

So what is this about; converters?

[Schaap]

Wow , this is the only forum with some negative feedback. There is nothing fishy about it or that you’re being fooled or whatever. All I ask is an honest opinion.

The A vs B and C vs D test is intended as a listening test, but also as a way to see how you do the listening test.
We did this test earlier with producers/mixers and technicians/engineers what resulted in a surprise. Enfin, long story but it seemed that all tech’s/eng. did the reverse phase test first, although we explicit asked to listen only, and most of them did not even listen to the files, but had ´strong opinions´ without listening. Some gave negative feedback.

If you have the courage to listen one more time to e.g. the E and F files on your monitors in your mastering or control room, please post your experiences.
I prefer to listen at it around 80 dB. Eventually it can be in your interest too.

You can easily transport the files with e.g. USB-stick to your audioprogram. There are no virus, spyware etc. in it. No need to do the phase reverse test, you know.

Thanks again.

Henk

[Schaap]

Originally Posted by d_fu

Almost.. The "difference" is something around -123 dBFS...

Very interesting. What program did you use ?


Henk

[Nerdyrocker]

Not saying it is right but the transients seem a lot sharper on the first files of every pair. It sounds like there is some slight compression/limiting going on in the second files. I do mean slight. The second files were smoother. Could be analog. Who knows. They both sound great.

Originally Posted by Schaap

The A vs B and C vs D test is intended as a listening test, but also as a way to see how you do the listening test.
We did this test earlier with producers/mixers and technicians/engineers what resulted in a surprise. Enfin, long story but it seemed that all tech’s/eng. did the reverse phase test first, although we explicit asked to listen only, and most of them did not even listen to the files, but had ´strong opinions´ without listening. Some gave negative feedback.

This phase flipping test was the farthest from the first though in my mind. The first thing I wanted to do was listen. Does that mean I am a bad engineer because I trust my ears before my gear?

[Schaap]

Originally Posted by Nerdyrocker

This phase flipping test was the farthest from the first though in my mind. The first thing I wanted to do was listen. Does that mean I am a bad engineer because I trust my ears before my gear?

No, we just picked the wrong guys.


Henk

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by Schaap

Very interesting. What program did you use ?
Henk

Samplitude. Placed the two objects onto two tracks, phase reversed one, and during playback, the output channels in my RME card's Totalmix displayed a constant signal around -123.4 dB FS (which means there can't be any compression or similar effect). Didn't bother to analyze this signal any further (i.e. bounce/normalize). I only tried tracks E and F.

BTW, I did listen first, and had the impression F/2 sounded more pleasing. But then they did seem so similar that I wanted to know how much of a difference there actually was. It obviously isn't something very obvious...
The difference seems more audible on my speakers than with headphones for some reason.

Daniel

[tvck]

Originally Posted by Lupo

Why do you spam the net by posting identical files, wasting peoples time? What's the agenda?

If you're set on proving that identical files may sound different you're like a century too late. It's a known fact that the minds ability to shape sound psychologically is very strong.

Right.

I also tested the first two files and the data is numerically identical. IOW, it's impossible that they give a different sound on the same system.

EDIT: My mistake, they are not 'identical' they just null out = no possible audible difference


So Henk, why are you wasting people's time here? What's your reason?

[tvck]

...

I can only imagine that you are trying to demonstrate that humans can think they
hear things which don't exist, right?