Saviors of Surround... the surround iPod

[Tibbon]

I think I am coming to accept that most consumers will never have a decent surround setup installed in their homes. Either the rooms aren't right, or the systems or all wrong, etc. Hell, most people don't even have their stereos set up all that well for listening.

Now if the portable player world embraces the virtual surround/holophonic sound thing, then I could see it being used properly and surround music really taking off. There's so few variables. Hell if Apple did it (maybe just a simple convertor for 5.1 surround to virtual surround so that any SACD/DVD could be thrown over to the iPod and decoded as virtual surround in headphones), then we'd probably even know exactly what headphones they'd be listening through!

Headphones are probably the best listening environment we can ask most consumers to have properly set up anyway. They are always in the 'sweet spot' and external distractions are normally blocked out. For surround, we couldn't ask for any better.

So we are hedging on one of two things:

1) Special holophonic encoding or 5.1 mixes, with the purpose being that they are listened to on iPods, etc...

2) Just releasing surround mixes, and Apple or whoever having a decoder inside the system to make it surround in two speakers.

Of course both could happen without too much trouble. DSP chips for this type of thing wouldn't be large, and wouldn't be a big deal I imagine.

The only other easy to set up consumer thing is something like the Yamaha YSP-1 (which is basically a bar that you stick on the wall that has little speakers pointed around the room with the idea of bouncing surround off the walls. Works better than you'd imagine).

So surround music isn't dead or dying... it just needs a little technology boost to get it into people's ears. Otherwise at best we're doing surround- soundtracks for movies.

[Sizzleboy]

I don't get the whole surround thing for music. I like it for movies, and I've heard the Steely Dan album in surround, but it didn't really blow me away. I'm sure you could do some cool Floyd type quadro stuff with it, but that would be something to be taken in small doses. I like the image of a mix to be similar to having the band in front of me. I don't want to be on stage with them.

I think you have a sound idea of bringing surround to the masses, but I'm not sure if it would be accepted, or if it's even needed. Then again, if it's another excuse to remix and resell a record companies catalog, I'm sure they would be all over it.

[6strings]

My 2 cents:

1. People use iPods to listen to music on the go. A soundtrack to life, if you will. It's about the convenience, not the quality. So creating cool surround effects won't change people's listening habits.

2. Surround music isn't dead, but the audio-only surround format is. Expect artists to continue to release live video concerts in 5.1 surround, but not to release audio-only discs for much longer (do they even still release SACD, DVD-A? I know the box stores cleared their shelves of the those failing formats months ago).

[max cooper]

I think lots of people (men, really) like the idea of surround because it = more speakers.

As long as they hear sound and the sub is booming, they're happy.

Also, most people I see with iPods listen with earbuds, and I can't really get past the sound of 'em. Mostly clicking and hissing, to my ears.

People buy the latest iPod based not on the sound quality, but on how many songs it can hold. Not a single thing I read about the Zune mentioned sound quality; just functionality, sharing, etc.

The market isn't asking for anything in the sound dept. so I would doubt the mfgr's will expand things in that direction.

Brick and mortar CD stores (we used to call 'em record stores) are feeling the hit from downloading music more and more every day; I doubt they're gonna want more different formats.

[Tibbon]

Can you encode a surround mix as holophonic sound well? Does it sound odd to play over speakers? I remember George Massenburg at Berklee at one point was speaking about surround and there was a demo of this one product in the back that gave virtual surround in headphones of any 5.1 mix.

If it didn't totally screw up the sound for normal listening in stereo, you could always just encode it on such a unit, and then ship it as an alternate "virtual surround mix" on the CD, maybe even pre-encoded for MP3 in the data region of the disk. At least this way it would be encoded well (and at a high bitrrate). Ready for transfer to an mp3 player. Hopefully if they played it on a normal set of speakers (or in their car) it wouldn't sound too weird. If we put it in the data section of the disk, then there'd be no format problems. Preencoding means, again, no format problems as it's just the ears decoding the information.

The mp3 players aren't perfect, but they are ready to stay and many consumers will do much of their listening through them. Of course we could hold out for the consumers to all have "Listening rooms" in their houses, and sit in the perfect spot, and listen in an acoustical perfect room, but it won't happen. For now, many consumers are listening on iPods. Embrace it and it might do well for us.

I think that a lot of people would really really like or at least be impressed with a song that all of a sudden in their headphones was surround.

[Curtis Franklin]

I think your idea of preencoding mp3s on the data section of a CD is brilliant.

[John Suitcase]

I've thought for a while now that we all ought to be doing a separate mix for headphones, in mp3 format. Basically, do your normal mix per your usual monitoring routine, then throw on a pair of phones, and do a second mix, exclusively for that environment. You could do some weird surroundish stuff, some binaural stuff that would sound too wacky on speakers, adjust reverb levels to be better for the headphone (ie dead) environment, etc. I haven't messed with this idea too much yet, but I think it might have some traction as a value-added element on hybrid CDs, or even as a seperate iTunes download.

Headphones and speakers in a room are two very different beasts, as anyone who's ever tried to mix a record on phones has no doubt experienced.

5.1 works with movies. I really don't see it as a music format, except as it relates to a visual element. In reality mono is more relevant today, with ringtones, nightclubs, phone-on-hold, etc. I always laugh when I hear people say that mono is irrelevant. Most of the time, we're listening in mono. If you're not in or near the sweet-spot, you're hearing something more akin to mono than to stereo or 5.1.

[jayfrigo]

One word: automobile.

[6strings]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

One word: automobile.

Audio surround has been done (even promoted). Never took off.

I think the problem (in addition to format acceptance as mentioned above) is that not only is no one passenger in the required "sweet spot" for the surround experience, but back seat passengers will hear mostly ambient tracks in the rear speakers. But really, it's about consumer's lack of interest in audio-only surround formats.

My wish for the auto, is a memory stick interface to load tracks. However, due to copyrestrictions, the best we'll see in the near future is an iPod interface (which is becoming more available on a lot of newer car models).

[T.RayBullard]

2 ears- 2 speakers=stereo. all ive ever needed.

dfegad on surround. hell, the stereo stuff sounds like ass, why worry about new formats? time is needed to hone what is already on the table... as it is...well...

[joelpatterson]

What everyone said. Surround is a novelty. Keep it that way.