NEW TRICK ON GTRS SOUNDS GOOD BUT????

[djui5]

Mono just isn't for clubs. If you've ever noticed, when your radio isn't in perfect tune to a station it switches to mono. When walking through a store with sattelite radio on your hearing things in mono mostly. When listening to your music videos from the other room, your hearing mono. When listening to your cd in the shower, it's mono.

It maybe be playing stereo, but if your not mono capable, it's going to sound like crap unless your sitting in the sweet spot. 99% of people listening to music aren't in the sweet post unless they have headphones on.

There are ways to make a very wide mix that folds well to mono, but I'm not telling that secret. Gotta have some kinda edge these days...well that and I smell good...hahaha

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by initialsBB

I think another point is not so much the end listener's setup but what happens in between with various production stages that you don't have any control over. For example in my day job I'm often given 4 channel audio splits of movie trailers -- that's 4 mono tracks, music, dialog, fx, & v/o. You never know if a song might end up in a movie or commercial which in turn gets put online or on a dvd, travelling through all sorts of hands along the way. There was a thread here a while back where someone linked to the Talledega Nights trailer online which had been posted without any sfx!

Yep.. another great point!

[Absolute]

Almost all Van Halen starting with F.U.C.K is 1 guitar track duped and delayed and no one cares what it sounds like in mono.

On the club point--who goes to a club to listen for wide dance mixes? Again..no one cares. Mono sounds lke crap peroid. When people listen to music--its for the music. They are well aware that they are on less than perfect systems while listening on their alarm clock or in traffic

I say for quality Pop and Rock. Home stereo system is the key system. How many tmes have you heard modern Pop tunes sound weak on Home Stereo's? I say--all the time..many are pitifully weak because people mixed them for a boombox sound. They cant hold up to say ..an old Elton John album. And Elton sounds just fine in the bathroom too. So I say...make the mix shine on a good Home system and trust that people listen to the SONG elsewhere......not the mix.

All of that hyperfanatic spew I just puked out aside ...just make sure its not total phased crap in public.

go ahead kill me for that crazy rant..haha

[dbbubba]

No one and let me repeat that NO ONE other than us engineer types listens to music while sitting between two (or more) speakers!

For a second I thought that people do sit in front of their TVs and home theatre rigs, but for a year I made sure that people were happy with their multi-thousand dollar home theaters and VERY few of those had properly implemented monitoring (speakers.) the esthetics of home decor always prevailed.

The only place that people do sit with even close to properly positioned speakers is with their computer and that is pretty sad, ain't it? Those plastic enclosures sound really great! Right!

You have to learn to make mixes that work in ALL playback situations.

DB

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by ulysses

Even better is two separate performances of the same guitar part.

Gad, I thought nobody was gonna say it. It fixes all the problems.

[Blast9]

Yep, epsecially with vocalign: I should know... they did it to me!

[ToddS]

Originally Posted by ulysses

Even better is two separate performances of the same guitar part.

I was going to say the same thing...a little off topic here but why is it that there is so much less of this? I rarely get asked to do a second performance when playing on a session. Are players getting that bad that engineers get a good take and assume that's it? I'm certain no one feels the gear takes away the benefits of multiple guitar tracks...

[Blast9]

I think in a lot of cases producers are sick of the obvious hard-panned double track thing... Having said that, there's something to be said for mixing the 2nd gtr much lower and low passing it so its not obviously there, but fills the space nicely.

Brendan O'Brien used that trick on some tracks on the King's X album Dogman, which is very dry and in your face. They wanted more of the 3-piece sound, but it isn't just 1 guitar on any song.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by ulysses

Even better is two separate performances of the same guitar part.

Originally Posted by max cooper

Gad, I thought nobody was gonna say it. It fixes all the problems.

Didn't I already say that....

Originally Posted by Me

Given the choice between one track with 20 or so ms of delay and two separate tracks from two separate takes I would choose the latter… not that you always get that choice…. Or I would choose to record in stereo ala Bruce S. and let the natural Haas effect of the stereo track work in the mix… again not that you always get that choice when mixing someone else's tracks.

(just kidding)

[Jason Poulin]

Originally Posted by djui5

CHICKEN!!

Stop playing it safe. If it sounds better, why would you turn it off? DO WHAT SOUNDS RIGHT.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with doing this in Pro-Tools, if you have HD. If not, you need to compensate for the delay manually. That delay might be helping you though...haha.

Billy's "trick" works nice too.

Plug in delay is sometimes a charm and what the track exactly needs! Funny how that works.


Jason

[theblue1]

We used to route a signal through two channels on analog boards in order to run two sets of EQ... sometimes but not always separating them in panning... you sometimes get some subtle phase and/or comb filter effects. It also can give you a chance to tinker with FX sends, stereoscape, etc.

[dbbubba]

I thought that the double track thing was kinda' obvious and assumed that was what we were reffering to. Treating the DBL. It also keeps the phase thing from being such problem. It is a different sound, but I believe that it wins out over the artificial doubling of a part about 95% of the time. I just think that doubling with a device sounds cheap and plastic unless it is a effect you want for a small section of a cut.

When I track GTR parts I assume that the player is rehearsed enough that he can play the part twice. Maybe I'm lucky to be able to work with decent players, but there have been a few guys over the years that were a bit fumble-fingered... lot's of punching in!

When I track rock, pop/rock or certian more modern C&W GTRs I make the player double
EVERY part except the lead. As soon as we get a complete take of the entire cut or section I imiedeately open a new track and track in again. I may not always use the DBL but it's there if I need it. It might turn out that a KYBD part will make rthe DBL un-neccesary or I might use the DBL only in the choruses, but I have the option.

With tracks played to a click (which they should be 99% of the time) you can always steal a part from later in the song if really neccesary. If you don't tell anyone, these parts generally work fine as long as the changes are the same.

I won't go into huge detail, but there are LOT'S of ways to DBL a GTR part.

Danny Brown