Yamaha Nuage Pricing
Old 6th August 2013
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Yamaha Nuage Pricing

Old 6th August 2013
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Recently I saw a video demonstrating the Nuage. Man, it's really amazing. The first controller the way I want (nuendo user). Major financial investment.
Old 8th August 2013
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Old 8th August 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugSlut View Post
These prices also includes (Norwegian sales tax) MVA 25%.

PlugSlut
I don't know anything about the tax situation in Norway (ouch!), but I figured the big-print prices included that.

I did note that on most of the pages they had something like:

33 745,- ink. mva.

26 996,- eks. mva.


Does this mean the lower price is without the tax?
Old 8th August 2013
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Yes,
ink. = incl.
eks.= excl.

Matti
Old 18th August 2013
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Yamaha Nuage Pricing revealed at NAB 2013

Old 19th August 2013
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Old 4th September 2013
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...anybody have any idea how/if remote controllable mic pres can be incorporated into the Nuage system without running additional cables to/from the control room(s)?

...like, if an AD8HR is connected to the 8A8D via AES/EBU, does a separate RS232C connection need to be ran from PC to AD8HR in order to control gain, phantom power, etc.?
Old 4th September 2013
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Nuage isn't cheap...
How come you don't care to learn how to use it

Matti
Old 5th September 2013
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Old 7th September 2013
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...anybody using the I/O boxes for recording?

What are you using for mic pres?
Old 15th September 2013
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AVID S6 not YAMAHA NUAGE

Such bad marketing.There is so much talking about Nuage and still nothing out there, instead AVID one more time took the lead and came down to the ground with the new AVID S6. I was waiting so bad for this thing called NUAGE, but sorry my friends, i'm switching to ProTools and AVID S6. Why?!?!?...because Yamaha and Steinberg are stupid enough to anounce a new product and more than a year after that product is still not out on the market.I'm a Cubase user since the first version, but this thing finally made me turn around and make the big change to ProTools, nothing to loose, more to gain in fact.I recently lost my Cubase USB dongle so guess what, i need to pay for a new Cubase package even i'm buying for more than 10 years all the Cubase upgrades. Hands down for AVID, f**k off Steinberg.

This is how you market a product http://www.avid.com/US/press-room/Avid-Unveils-S6
All the details, pricing...

And there it goes it works with CUBASE 6.5 and NUENDO 5.5
http://www.avid.com/US/products/avid-s6/tech-specs

I'm not trying to make a campaign for AVID but the truth is that AVID nailed down
http://www.avid.com/US/products/avid-s6
Old 15th September 2013
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LOL... nice troll there
Old 16th September 2013
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Troll or not, DjObllyo does have a point...

Avid has made quite a few mistakes lately, and some of their strategic decisions have hurt quite a few of their users.

I really thought Steinberg/Yamaha was gearing up for an attack designed to take away at least some of Avid's near monopoly in post houses and large music studios here in the US with Nuendo and Nuage, but it appears Steinberg/Yamaha dropped the ball on this one.

One small upside...since the S6 has been announced I have seen Nuage compared to it very favorably. So, Nuage is getting a lot of visibility in the market they might not otherwise have received.

One thing...Avid is stating a delivery date of December for the S6, but we all know that delivery dates have a bad habit of slipping.

So, if Steinberg/Yamaha can get some Nuage product out there soon they might still have a chance...

Oh...and don't forget Steven Slate's control surface offerings...
Old 16th September 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdenton View Post
Troll or not, DjObllyo does have a point...
Forgetting one major point which is the fact that it's a comparison between a $35K Nuendo system and a $120K Protools system...

Forgetting than Avid has also done a lot of mistakes lately and some hasty announcements...

Forgetting than Avid is doubling up the price of the D-Command ES with the S6 M10...

Forgetting than when you have no post on a forum and your really first one is to come in a concurrent company thread to blame them and their products to promote and advertise for the brand new product that is just announced and not even released, it not only looks suspicious as a troll well made, but it also look like a very desperate marketing method...

I'm just saying
Old 16th September 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spid View Post
Forgetting one major point which is the fact that it's a comparison between a $35K Nuendo system and a $120K Protools system...
Why is the Pro Tools system 120k? There are other options closer to the 16 fader Nuage at 35k.

S6 M10 16-5, 16 Faders, 5 Knobs per channel $33,995.00

S6 M40 16-5-D, 16 Faders, 5 Knobs per channel, 2 Display Modules $61,830.00

Plus facilities lease big purchases like new LFACs and Icons. You don't just plop down 50k-500k.

Three issues Nuage has here in the USA. One, I don't any post houses that use Nuendo. I've actually never seen Nuendo at any facility. Two, if you want to use it as a controller for PT 35k for a HUI controller is insane. Three, I know it's a Yamaha/Steinberg collaboration, but Steinberg is involved and they have a terrible history of dropping hardware and support at a moments notice. Us involved in the finances take that history into account.
Old 16th September 2013
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$35K Nuage is for a full 32 faders system with displays and including Nuendo station... $50K for a 48 faders solution...

For similar setup with avid, you need the S6 M40 32 faders with displays for $112K (or $90K for 5 knobs per channel) + the price of a Protools HDX station... total: at least $100K, probably $170K+ for a 48 faders solution. For $50K at Avid, you only have a S6 M10 24 faders (without Displays, without PT HDX station).

1) At this price, Yamaha/Steinberg propose a solution not only for post, but also for Music market that is completely abandoned by Avid now... and where DAW choice is less and less relevant these days.

2) If you buy Nuage it's firstly to use it with Nuendo/Cubase. It's just good to know there's a backup plan to use it with Protools too (even if it's just with a Native version of Protools to exchange some sessions).

3) Yamaha hardware history is actually really good. In one of the studios, I'm still using a $30K DM2000, and control Protools in HUI with it and guess what? it's still rock solid... and actually it's even more suitable for Protools 11 now than the Control 24 or Pro Control you could buy back in the day when the DM2000 was released.

BTW: It's not a Yamaha/Steinberg collaboration. Yamaha own Steinberg since 2006 and it's now just the result of this purchase, just like the S6 is not a Avid/Euphonix collaboration, it's the result of the purchase of Euphonix by Avid. In terms of future support, that's a whole new story...

Us involved in the finances, we could also take in count the health of each company, and it wouldn't look that good for Avid:



So to each his own...
Old 16th September 2013
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(see post #6 above) One 16 fader pack for Nuage is $12,000. The controller is $11,000. The 32 fader package is $40k. We are talking controllers here. Everyone who will lease the S6 already has HD/HDX so that price does not count.

Brought to you in a serious collaboration between Yamaha and the pro-audio specialists at Steinberg, the Nuage system solution opens a new era in audio post-production. It's for post production as they state. I can't see many $499 cubase users, who create music, plopping down $28k (16 faders)/ $40k (32 faders) for a controller. I was an 02r user for years. No way I would pay $28k (16 faders) for hui control where it's just the transport and fader moves. You have to use the mouse for everything else. No way it's better than the $9k C|24 for Pro Tools which is not a favorite of mine. Avid is still very much in the music market w/ Pro Tools being everywhere.

The chart is unimportant to this convo but Avid's been in trouble for years on paper but still create and support new products and still have a pretty big cash reserve. Even if they folded tomorrow someone would swoop in and keep their products and support going because of their large international customer base. Steinberg has been sold countless times and still here. Also, if we remove golf carts, 4 wheelers, motorcycles, rugby teams, industrial robots, RV's, powerboats, etc from Yamaha's bottom line, and just concentrated on pro audio, they would look similar to avid's bottom line w/ people turning to virtual instrument plugins and their digital mixers taking a serious nosedive in the studio and live markets.

For Nuendo users Nuage will probably be great whenever it comes to the market. But for Pro Tools facilities there are better options than HUI, or for HUI, at those prices.
Old 16th September 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by work2do View Post
(see post #6 above) One 16 fader pack for Nuage is $12,000. The controller is $11,000. The 32 fader package is $40k.
12x2+11=35, not 40.

Quote:
Originally Posted by work2do View Post
It's for post production as they state. I can't see many $499 cubase users, who create music, plopping down $28k (16 faders)/ $40k (32 faders) for a controller.
See math above. Also, you can get the 16 faders only for $12,000. No $28k purchase necessary.

Clearly a person who is willing to spend a lot of money on a controller for music is using the best tool available for him/her to do his work, in music. That could very well be Pro Tools, Logic, or - gasp - Cubase. And just because the best tool for the job happens to be cheap doesn't mean the budget isn't there for an expensive controller. This applies equally to the users of those apps.
Old 16th September 2013
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Nuage prices are MSRP announced during trade show, but even like that it's $35K for the controller, $40K for the whole system with software and I/O. And even at $40K (if you wish) it's still way less than $120K for the same setup with a S6 M40 32 faders with software and I/O. (or around $100K for the controller "only"). Count it as you like (MSRP or Street, with or without software and/or I/O), it's still 3 times more expensive.

Yamaha can target the post prod and still get the Music business where Avid left it. That's the whole point actually. There's still A LOT of people in the Music Industry that aren't hobbyist and still have PT HD3 with Control 24, Pro Control, or even D-Command that would need to upgrade their entire setup to use PT11 (HDX card, I/O, new surface control).

And a lot of these guys are definitely not ready to spend another $120K if they can spend almost three times less for a similar setup on a different software... all they will need is a native version of PT11 to exchange / convert their sessions if it's really required.

The DM2000 is not even remotely close of a 02R in terms of Protools control. And for Protools 11, the Control 24 or Pro Control just won't work at all... So yeah, technically, a DM2000 in HUI will still be way better than a Control 24 or Pro Control for PT11.

Music market is dying and the omnipresence of Protools in that market is not true anymore. I just got a producer friend of mine that called me last week because he's selling his PT HD3 rig... Why? He's only using Ableton Live with Prism Orpheus now and he'll just use a native version of PT11/10 if he needs it. This is just a example, but I have plenty of similar cases that I'm aware of.

Actually, most of the producers/musicians aren't using Protools HD anymore, there are using Logic, Cubase, Reason, Fruity Loops, Sonar, etc... Avid clearly knows that and that's the reason why they're just dropping the Music market now. But of course, you can live in the complete denial, it's fine by me...

BTW: Steinberg hasn't been sold countless times... but twice. Steinberg has been acquired by Pinnacle back in the days when Steinberg wanted to reach the Video and Post market. And then it has been acquired by Yamaha in 2004.
Old 16th September 2013
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
12x2+11=35, not 40.
See math above. Also, you can get the 16 faders only for $12,000. No $28k purchase necessary.

Clearly a person who is willing to spend a lot of money on a controller for music is using the best tool available for him/her to do his work, in music. That could very well be Pro Tools, Logic, or - gasp - Cubase. And just because the best tool for the job happens to be cheap doesn't mean the budget isn't there for an expensive controller. This applies equally to the users of those apps.
You are forgetting the price of the Dante card, and the I/O in post 6. I'm sure Nuage is best for Cubase/Nuendo but not for Pro Tools users. HUI at those prices is insane. There are better options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spid View Post
Actually, most of the producers/musicians aren't using Protools HD anymore, there are using Logic, Cubase, Reason, Fruity Loops, Sonar, etc... Avid clearly knows that and that's the reason why they're just dropping the Music market now. But of course, you can live in the complete denial, it's fine by me...
I would say 95% of every commercial album release, video game, and box office film goes through Pro Tools at some point. Even those where the music is created on fruity loops. You can use an ipad to make beats at home. But that ipad beat will go through Pro Tools at some point before it's hits the airwaves or movie theaters. Pro Tools has never been a widely used "production" software.

Quote:
Nuage prices are MSRP announced during trade show,
So was Avid.

Quote:
it's still 3 times more expensive.
Cheaper is relative to your market, your clients and what they come to you for, and your bottom line. It's cheaper to put in an SSL Matrix or a C|24 but that would kill our bookings. For example: Say our leases are up on our D-Controls 2nd quarter 2014. If we choose to go S6, the monthly nut is still in the same ballpark. If we put Nuages where there used to be Icons, our biz would fall off big time.

Quote:
Yamaha can target the post prod and still get the Music business where Avid left it.
You can only target the Post market that uses Nuendo which is tiny. There are very few Nuendo Post rooms and the PT users prolific in post are not going to pay that much for a HUI controller. Honestly how many of your Fruity Loops, Sonar, Reason cats are going to spend $28k on a controller? Nuage is not for them. Steinberg made those modular light pad controllers for that market. I'm sure the very well off commercial producer who uses cubase for production may grab one but that will not be the norm.

Quote:
There's still A LOT of people in the Music Industry that aren't hobbyist and still have PT HD3 with Control 24, Pro Control, or even D-Command that would need to upgrade their entire setup to use PT11 (HDX card, I/O, new surface control).
That's part of the business. If you never want to upgrade your studio go SSL analog console, Studer, and analog outboard or stay with the current setup that still works. Facilities don't chase upgrades and new tech like home studio folks. There are facilities still on PT 9 and booked 300 days a year. Some still on 8.
Old 16th September 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by work2do View Post
You are forgetting the price of the Dante card, and the I/O in post 6.
You need neither to run Nuage with Nuendo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by work2do View Post
I'm sure Nuage is best for Cubase/Nuendo but not for Pro Tools users. HUI at those prices is insane. There are better options.
Of course. I never said the opposite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by work2do View Post
Quote:
Yamaha can target the post prod and still get the Music business where Avid left it.
You can only target the Post market that uses Nuendo which is tiny. There are very few Nuendo Post rooms and the PT users prolific in post are not going to pay that much for a HUI controller. Honestly how many of your Fruity Loops, Sonar, Reason cats are going to spend $28k on a controller? Nuage is not for them. Steinberg made those modular light pad controllers for that market. I'm sure the very well off commercial producer who uses cubase for production may grab one but that will not be the norm.
I think the point was that some who are making money on music are not using PT and could - because they make money - spend some on a new controller. If they want tight integration with Cubase or Nuendo yet not spend $28k they can actually buy the fader section alone which is $12k. There's no way around that being the best option in such a case.

Now, if they're based on PT it's obviously a different matter.
Old 16th September 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
they can actually buy the fader section alone which is $12k. There's no way around that being the best option in such a case.
Ok. I see. How do you control plugins with just two knobs or do any editing? Is there transport control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Now, if they're based on PT it's obviously a different matter.
Exactly.
Old 16th September 2013
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by work2do View Post
Ok. I see. How do you control plugins with just two knobs
A: "Better"?
Q: "'Better' than what?"
A: Better than without any knobs / faders at all (?), which is the situation for a lot of people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by work2do View Post
or do any editing?
I'm willing to bet that plenty of people find it more beneficial to get faders than stuff for editing. I'm currently faster at plain old editing with my trackball and keyboard. If I bought either an s6 or the Nuage master section I'd for sure try to edit with those dedicated controls, but I actually highly doubt I'd be any faster using them. So for me personally those things would mostly be unused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by work2do View Post
Is there transport control?
Space bar. Numeric keypad.
Old 16th September 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by work2do View Post
I would say 95% of every commercial album release, video game, and box office film goes through Pro Tools at some point. Even those where the music is created on fruity loops. You can use an ipad to make beats at home. But that ipad beat will go through Pro Tools at some point before it's hits the airwaves or movie theaters. Pro Tools has never been a widely used "production" software.
And that's the point you don't get it... Music is created with something else than Protools, but now producers/musicians don't need to go through Protools at any point. So they don't absolutely _need_ to have Protools HD rig at any point. A simple PT Native could wildly be enough if they still have to convert their music to send it out. And for that, no need for a Protools HDX rig with an Avid Surface Control.

Quote:
Cheaper is relative to your market, your clients and what they come to you for, and your bottom line. It's cheaper to put in an SSL Matrix or a C|24 but that would kill our bookings. For example: Say our leases are up on our D-Controls 2nd quarter 2014. If we choose to go S6, the monthly nut is still in the same ballpark. If we put Nuages where there used to be Icons, our biz would fall off big time.
Again that's what _you_ don't get by coming here (like the other troll) on a Nuage thread to talk about Protools. What you don't get is that for Large Corporate Post Facilities it's not even a question of using Protools... but today in the Music Industry and even the small post guys (yeah, there's guys working on videos outside of L.A.), they can see in Nuage something Avid can't propose, starting by the price.

I know a lot of Music guys that can spend $25K, $30K or even $40K on a console/controller and don't give a damn about Protools anymore. And these guys are also doing some video/post now because everything has to be video these days of Youtube/Facebook.

Different customers for different market... We're not talking about Audio and Post for Hollywood where Protools is indeed the leader. We talked about a lot of people that represent a growing community in the Music Industry that just don't give a damn about Protools because they can easily live without. Actually, for these guys, using Protools is currently more a drag than any real benefit.

(And I'm saying that as a Protools user. I'm just not blind enough to not see the current reality in Music).

Quote:
That's part of the business. If you never want to upgrade your studio go SSL analog console, Studer, and analog outboard or stay with the current setup that still works. Facilities don't chase upgrades and new tech like home studio folks. There are facilities still on PT 9 and booked 300 days a year. Some still on 8.
That's my point... There's a lot of facilities that don't have HDX, that don't have PT11, that don't have AAX plugins, that don't have S6 surface control... and will probably never have because it just doesn't fit their market anymore.

But they surely want something to replace their old Analog console or Control 24/Pro Control because today you have to be able to switch projects several time in the day and analog recall is just too huge PITA for that.

And for these guys, Avid doesn't have any affordable and suitable solution anymore. The D-Command was one of them, but it's discontinued and won't be supported 5 years from now and the S6 M10 is twice the price and just doesn't fit the bill anymore.

That's why I say Yamaha can target the Post and get the Music market in the same time, the market Avid just left.
Old 16th September 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by work2do View Post
You are forgetting the price of the Dante card, and the I/O in post 6. I'm sure Nuage is best for Cubase/Nuendo but not for Pro Tools users. HUI at those prices is insane. There are better options.
Yes, so if you count the Dante Card, the Software and I/O, for the Avid setup you need to count the HDX/HDN card (with Software) and the I/O too...

BTW, I might be wrong on that one (Steinberg specialists will correct me), but the Dante card is to handle the I/O (just like the HD Native PCIe) and is not required for the Surface Control.

I recall I saw a video few months ago where they plug Nuage directly to the Mac Pro Ethernet port...
Old 16th September 2013
  #27
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Avid has moved in the right direction with S6 - you don't need to use Pro Tools
it works with any Eucon enable DAW
• Adobe Audition
• Apogee Maestro 1.9
• Apple Final Cut Pro 7
• Apple Logic Pro 9 and Express 9 and higher
• Apple SoundTrack Pro 3
• Cakewalk Sonar X1 Producer
• MAGIX Sequoia 11 or higher
• Merging Pyramix 8
• Metric Halo MIO Console
• MOTU Digital Performer 7
• Steinberg Cubase 6.5 • Steinberg Nuendo 5.5
Old 16th September 2013
  #28
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But S6 is three times the price of Nuage and won't provide as much integration to Cubase/Nuendo with Eucon 2 than Nuage can get.

Again, using S6 for Cubase/Nuendo would be completely silly... If it's just as a backup plan for a Protools user to import/convert Nuendo sessions, I'd understand, but for an every day work, that's just silly!
Old 17th September 2013
  #29
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the S6 is about 6 weeks of billing for me - money is not an issue for me.
Old 17th September 2013
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So why are you trolling about S6 on a Nuage thread?
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