Poll: tracking bands live vs. one at a time overdubs

[dangeorge6]

I'm really curious as to how everyone approaches recording bands. Do you guys initially record bands together or start with the drums and build from there? Some combination of the two? Do you use different approaches depending on the situation? What approach would you say is used by the big guns?

[AlexLakis]

The only answer is "different approaches for different situations."

I think the "big guns" would lean more towards "tracking all at once" because they have access to better rooms and better talent.

[Jim Williams]

Everybody plays, always. That's what overdubbing was invented for, to replace tracks that need help. Even if the tracks are throw-away, the interaction of the BAND is what the BAND is. A solo act is a solo act, a band is a BAND!

Understand?

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[cortisol]

Generally speaking I find that it's better for a band to track all at once, do any necessary overdubs and then track vocals separate if possible.

When you track together then the musicians react to one another and their knowledge of each others playing usually creates the right push and pull within a performance - could be a change in backbeat feel ora slight change of tempo or rubato or anticipations.

I find that some songs suit a mechanical approach. So, the one instrument at a time and to a click has it's place too! Maybe there is too much reliance by audio engineers on beat detective and quantisation. I think it's ok to correct small lapses in concentration here and there maybe to give a nice down beat or tighten up accented riffs in a song not relying on a click IMO.

If musos don't practice with a click then it's better to give them a scenario that they are comfortable with to get the best performance out of them.

Peace,
cortisol

[seaneldon]

if a band insists on recording separately, i still make everyone play at the same time and take DI signals of all electric instruments. if anything they play is good, i can keep it and reamp it later.

[Mixocalypse]

I think it depends on the project and its budget.

Also tracking live you get a good feel/groove going. But again the bands has to be up for it and have the ability to do it.

But usually a mix of live/overdubs happen like was said above.

[dale116dot7]

I've had great results getting the whole band to play together - just trying to get them to play a bit quieter than they're used to so I can get a good lead vocal without a lot of leakage and mud. I give them headphones so it can sound loud to them but it's reasonable in the room. Careful mic placement can keep the drums out of the vocal and vocal out of the drums.

In the case of a singer-songwriter who wants backing, I get them to get a rhythm section together (at least bass, drums, with the singer-songwriter doing guitar), and get leads, drums, bass, and rhythm guitar in one take. I'll take two or three good takes, pick the best, cut any vocal mistakes from one take to the other, then get all of the other stuff as an overdub - lead guitar, keys, etc. I really avoid doing one track at a time with click because most people I record don't do nearly as well that way.

[dangeorge6]

thanks for the replies. For those of you who record the band all at once, do you feed the drummer a click?

Without the click it seems like editing, midi, and adding loops would be a lot more difficult. I also got Melodyne Uno recently and it seems like it goes haywire if the correct tempo isn't determined in pro tools. Erg, maybe i should have bought the Antares stuff

[quincyg]

If the band is not all ringers, i like to track bass,drums, maybe keys or guitar and a scratch voc. i usually go back and tighten up that rhythm section and then track the everyone else and let them be a little imperfect. has worked well for me. i would never do that with something like a jazz band though.

[Kenny Gioia]

They always play together.

Then we replace everything.

[dbbubba]

For a band that really plays well together it is great to track as much as possible live.
Any bass and drummer who have rehearsed enough to be tight should lock together well enough to get a "take" in most cases.

I have tracked drums (going for a complete take) bass and the better or primary GTR player at once. If they need a guide vocal I'd always cut it in an iso booth.

You can always deal with a D.I. bass and re-amp it.
Then again, if the bass player has a signature sound that is integral to the sound of the band I'd want to try to capture it live.

Most of the people that I work with these days have years and years of studio experience and can work in about any way that is needed.

I have done a lot of work both ways, but my prefered method is to build a MIDI version with a scratch MIDI drum part that carries the groove. I then OD temp GTRs and bass parts with some KYBDs and a decent guide vocal.
I will then have a session drummer track to these guide tracks. The guys I prefer to use don't listen to the MIDI drums while tracking, but they do get an idea of the groove from the track that is built usinf them as a groove.
After all of the real drum parts are complete I will then OD every instrument using to the real drums to build on.
After everything I need or might need is recorded I will start editing and arranging what I have. I might find I need additional ODs here and there at this stage, too.

When I have the luxury of time, I will have the GTR player double every part and possibly do four passes at some things. Four passes is rare with me however. By having more than enough parts I can choose where I want doubled parts and build the arrangement better. I rarely double KYBD parts.

Don't kid yourself about "great producers" having "great bands" to record.
I mixed about one hundred, famous, major-label bands live for radio between 1988 and 1992. Very few played significantly better than the local cats I recorded on a daily basis. The famous guys were just based out of L.A. or N.Y. and had better management. They might have had better "entertainment value." They might have had better songs. Mostly they played about the same. Many VERY famous bands played like S H I T live on stage. The producers appiled some serious magic. That magic involved different drummers and players from time to time. The biggest factor was that they had months to work on the songs!

Danny Brown

[jhg]

Everybody plays, always. That's what overdubbing was invented for, to replace tracks that need help. Even if the tracks are throw-away, the interaction of the BAND is what the BAND is. A solo act is a solo act, a band is a BAND!

Yessssss!

Without the click it seems like editing, midi, and adding loops would be a lot more difficult.

This is tough. Of course, talent, project, budget, expected product, on and on, come into play. I've found the less experienced/solid drummers, bassists, guitarists who actually need the click have a hell of a time playing with it - insert "the click was slowing down/speeding up, and I couldn't hear __ because of it" excuse here. I played to a metronome for years, know its benefits, but it can be way better to get a good performance w/o click than less than stellar, although more easily overdubable(sp?) take with click.

Almost any way you look at it, you gotta get an ensemble recording of the cast to get started...

Regards,

jhg

[dbbubba]

Let me add this to my comments on my practices and experiments:

If the band and particularly the drummer is green I never tried to make them play to a click. It just never turns out right and the drummer ends up getting frustrated (even if he doesn't admit it) and the takes are less than if they played it live w/o a click.

I have even listened to older tracks I did with my once partner in a studio who played drums for a few touring rock acts and I have noticed that he wasn't as good at playing with a click as I thought. I now hear little adjustments that I'd repair with beat detection these days.

On the otherhand, I recorded about two hundred and sixty production music cuts where we over-dubbed the drummer last! We used a guy name Dan Wojchieowski who is a stellar player and cuts tracks for everyone in this area. This guy could imparrt groove over MIDI tracks!

One of the bands that I recorded the very most played so well live that I just set them up in the studio and went for it. I even recorded them once set up diagonally across the room like they played live (w/o any baffles) and tracked a bunch of demos for the label. these tracks just slam so hard! Then again, they were a great live group. I did this same thing for the vocalists next band which had the drummer that now plays in the Goo Goo Dolls (I forget his name) and those tracks slammed, too!

[Chris Parsons]

Most of the time, Drums, Bass, and Rhy. Guitar live. Then overdub everything else. The reason: We've got one drum room and two iso rooms, then we can have live amps and not worry about re-amping later.

[David Brown]

I try to get bands to play together but I am continually surprized when they don't want to. Everyone knows how much you can manipulate audio these days and when they all do show up for a tracking session, only the drummer is giving 100%.
It seems only jazz and black Gospel insist on playing it down with everyone in the room. I think the music suffers but who cares.

David Brown

[studjo]

I allways have everyone play at once - after the fact I correct the bass and overdub whatever is needed.

Jo

[Drumsound]

I mostly track the band as a unit with scratch vocals and amps isolated. Then we fix minor mistakes and continue on to vocals and ear candy. After the songs are finished (or the tape is full) we mix.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[djui5]

I do it both ways. Depends on the band and the session.