Fisher Space Expander?

[Shandy]

While rooting through the studio basement this morning I came across a Fisher SpaceXpander (an old spring reverb unit from the 60's), completely intact. Okay, it wasn't shiny & new, but all the parts are there and it passes a dry signal.

However, the reverb signal itself is SUPER low, barely there in fact. I'm assuming it needs new tubes (I get a sickly pale orange glow from all three of them) and capacitors. Two questions for those of you in The Know:

a. Any thoughts or impressions from any of you who have used this piece before?

b. I'm pretty good with the soldering iron, but this is pre-PCB stuff, and tube equipment can get scary. Anyone in particular you think I should send this to for repair/overhaul?

[dbbubba]

They were pretty cool pieces in their day and I have even seen reference to them being used in "demo" grade studios back in the '60s and early '70s.

I'd plug it in and see what you get.

It isn't going to sound too "modern" but it might have a use.
They are pretty sproingy, but fun!

I have a Panasonic solid state equivelent, but I haven't used it since I got it last year.
It looks kinda' "retro" sitting under one of my computer monitors.

Danny Brown

[yeloocproducer]

I have one that is acting the same way and need it fixed but haven't gotten around to it. I can tell you one thing though... this is reportedly THE king tubby spring reverb. The one he used for all of his dub recordings. Nuff said.

[max cooper]

Get it fixed! I wanna hear it! It's a K-10, right?

Need the schematics?

here ya go:

http://www.triodeel.com/k10.gif

Legend has it that the K10 reverb was used in car audio. I know it shows up in Hammond organs too.

Did anyone know that Fisher was founded by Avery Fisher (yep, of Avery Fisher Hall fame).

The military set Fisher up with a factory to make radios during the war and after the war, he just kinda stayed there.

Fisher is credited in large part with creating what we consider hifi playback.

[yeloocproducer]

Yeah it's a K-10... there's some dub forum on the net where you can read all about it. You're right, it was developed as some sort of reverb unit for car stereo systems back in the sixties... so if your tracks weren't verbed enough already, you could big pimp and put this thing on for your cruising enjoyment.

Listening to "I'm Your Puppet" (Bobby and James Purify) through a K-10 space-expander in a 60's Chevy in east LA... can you imagine? I wonder what it sounded like when you hit a bump in the road with your cut coils/ lowered car...

[Shandy]

Yep, this is the King Tubby 'verb. No, not modern by any standards, but I love to collect old/odd gear like this, and I eventually find a use for everything. You should see my freakshow of a mic locker.

Max, I heard about the car audio application... I can't imagine the racket you'd get after hitting a pothole, but I guess it would make the drive more exiting. The owner's manual is all about how it's to be used in conjunction with your home hi-fi... I'd be ripped if someone put some crappy aftermarket reverb on my final mixes. And I definitely intend on getting it fixed, but I'm having some trouble finding someone to do it.

Yelo, I've been to the dub forum, and it does have some info, but for the most part there's a lot of bickering about who's truly "dub" and ads for online casinos. I did find the schematic there though, which has been pretty handy.

Anyone know a good old-school analog repair guy on the East coast/US?

[Ghede]

I made a Spacexpander into an effect box. I use it as a send effect on snare, guitar, whatever..ala King Tubby. I built a box for it with mono i/o. The input goes to an M-Audio Audio Buddy for gain to the amp. It needs amplification on top of the K-10 amp. Then put slits in the knobs of the Audio Buddy for gain control thru the holes in the box. I damped one of the springs with a bit of Auralex for maximum Boing. I mounted an electrical outlet box inside to plug the amp and AB into. Then a switch, power indicator light, and the "Reverb amount" pot to the outside. I've used it on Dub and even Rockabilly songs. Check out "Slow Movin' Girl" here if you like.

Here is a pic.

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by Shandy

I'd be ripped if someone put some crappy aftermarket reverb on my final mixes.

Uh... you should hear what they're doing to them anyway.

Ghede, damn nice vibe on that track! I listened in mono and it was super cool!

Everyone who skipped that link, go back and listen to it.

And nice job boxing up that 'verb.

[yeloocproducer]

Ghede-

You wanna do mine? You could start a little biz here... I'm not kidding.

DC

[joeq]

here is mine

I have the tank suspended over the basement stairs away from heavy footsteps and woofers.

It is gritty and a bit noisy, but it's also a sound that is not "covered" by any digital box or plug that I own, so worth the effort of hooking it up. Every now and then it is JUST the thing.

At one time, long ago, I had an EQ and a compressor in front of it and an expander after it. Now I usually want it to ping.

[Ghede]

Thank you for the kind words Max...Yelo, I would consider doing another, I do have another Audio buddy sitting around. email me, we'll talk. ghedesound at gmail dot cm.
Steve B.
Another view

[Shandy]

Ghede, if you have the time, I wouldn't mind getting in line for a little SpaceXpander repair. I really like the enclosure you built for it, too. For mine I'm picturing something in dark hardwood.

I also noticed that in the user's manual, they say to mount the springs vertically, which I suppose makes sense, but I've yet to see a guitar amp where the springs aren't sitting horizontal.

Hmm.

[yeloocproducer]

Yeah, b/c the cleanest possible signal path, ICs and caps always result in the best music.

Go get a King Tubby record and smoke out buddy.

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

It always amazes me what old boxes I used and hated are now desired and collected. Go figure.

I think this is one of the most fun things about the gear end of music production. It actually crops up in the general production techniques end too.

There's a similar phenomenon in fashion as well. It's something like taking the most embarrasing things about the past and embracing them.

[Jim Williams]

I can see that with the new generation "discovering" these older pieces.

For me it's more of a "been there, done that" situation. I don't want to buy bellbottoms or get a afro either...

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[joeq]

Originally Posted by yeloocproducer

Ghede-

You wanna do mine? You could start a little biz here... I'm not kidding.

DC

forget the fancy metal chassis! I can come over to your place with a couple of screw eyes and some twine! cheap!

[pan60]

very cool!

[KingDaddyO]

Originally Posted by Shandy

Anyone know a good old-school analog repair guy on the East coast/US?

Yep - Prototypes, on Howard Ave in Kensington MD (240) 223-0020. A real old school repair shop. Tiny hole in the wall place, with mounds of equipment everywhere, the smell of flux, warm transformers, and burnt silicon wafting in the air. Mmmm ... better than Xmas.

There's also Joe Rodgers-Professional Audio Services (301) 230-3106, on Ridgeway Ave in Rockville MD.

I've used them both and was pleased with their services.

[Captn']

Fellows I'm an old '70's radio DJ top 40 days. I have been looking for one of these fisher units for years. I've recently gotten back in the biz after years of doing other things.

Do any of you have a unit for sale? And if so what do you want for it. Does it work or will I need to find parts to make it work.

Please advise.
Thanks,
Captn'

[randyindhs]

My friend... nothing could be more ludicrous... any slight movement of a K-10 makes a shattering-echo sound like being in a sewer... the K-10 has been known to blow many a tweeter and midrange (and hurt a few ears) from being dropped while volume levels are close to (or higher than 100db).

Originally Posted by max cooper

Get it fixed! I wanna hear it! It's a K-10, right?

Need the schematics?

here ya go:

http://www.triodeel.com/k10.gif

Legend has it that the K10 reverb was used in car audio. I know it shows up in Hammond organs too.

Did anyone know that Fisher was founded by Avery Fisher (yep, of Avery Fisher Hall fame).

The military set Fisher up with a factory to make radios during the war and after the war, he just kinda stayed there.

Fisher is credited in large part with creating what we consider hifi playback.

[mxeryus]

Fisher Space Expander Reverb Unit (Vintage)

One for sale for U$550

Third hit on google, by the way!

[YetiHunter]

$550?

I got one that comes with the original box. and maybe the cardboard that held
the accusonic springs.

Just missing a pot and an rca cable or two.

mmmm....

I'll trade it for a dw. fearn eq.

[Keystone]

$26 so far

Hammond Fisher dynamic Space Expander Reverb & tank - eBay (item 360186081297 end time Sep-09-09 02:02:27 PDT)

[Keystone]

$100 so far with original box

Fisher Space Expander K10 Tube Spring Reverb unit - eBay (item 170378519036 end time Sep-08-09 18:54:20 PDT)

[Roman]

I bought it on ebay. I am in New Zealand. Should be here soon.
I am looking at my ramsa wr8616 mixer which I am yet to cable up. Just got it.
And I am planning my patching etc.
Is the fisher spacexpander mono or stereo?
If the output is mono I can use one of the various mono inputs on the ramsa. If it's stereo I will have to use a stereo return.
I have to plan my cabling to get the maximum flexibility from the ramsa.
But I am also curious about the ouput from this fisher spring reverb.
I suspect that even though it has left and right outputs that they are actually both the same mono mix.
If a spring reverb was stereo I assume there would be two springs each with it's own individual output. If they vibrate separately then the output should be different at each output creating a stereo sound.
Roman.
PS, I seem to remember reading somewhere that even the 2 inputs actually get mixed to a mono signal befoe the springs.

[Bassmankr]

Instead of hanging that unit with twine try using a thin bungee cord or heavy rubber bands to cut down mechanical noise further.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Shandy

While rooting through the studio basement this morning I came across a Fisher SpaceXpander (an old spring reverb unit from the 60's), completely intact. Okay, it wasn't shiny & new, but all the parts are there and it passes a dry signal.

However, the reverb signal itself is SUPER low, barely there in fact. I'm assuming it needs new tubes (I get a sickly pale orange glow from all three of them) and capacitors. Two questions for those of you in The Know:

a. Any thoughts or impressions from any of you who have used this piece before?

b. I'm pretty good with the soldering iron, but this is pre-PCB stuff, and tube equipment can get scary. Anyone in particular you think I should send this to for repair/overhaul?

My neighbor across the street when I was a kid had one in his component rig. I didn't think it added anything of value. I'd been really interested in hearing it, because one of my old neighbors had had a reverb unit added on to the 45 RPM player in his car and I thoughtthat was amazingly cool (but it all sounded bad... I just thought a phono with a reverb in a car was pretty cool... the car reverb units were sold to make your car sound like a concert hall. [The phonos were not made to play while moving; they were a lovers' lane accessory.] They didn't. And, of course, neither did the more expensive home units that followed from a few component makers).

Anyhow, I didn't think the reverb was a good add-on for a stereo once I'd had a chance to experience and contemplate it -- but it might be a fun unit to keep around the studio.

[Roman]

I have my spacexpander now. I have to buy a 240V to 110V step down transformer.
Do I need to give it just a mono input and output on my patch bay. Or is it stereo?
I am fairly sure it's mono in and mono out.
I think the stereo ins and outs are for music to be blended with the reverb.
I will be using it strictly as a reverb send effect from my mixer though.
Roman.

[Justin Q]

I also run mine mono. It looks like you can run it stereo in/out but there is only one reverb send/return so it probably gets summed. My unit has significant hiss and I'm wondering if recapping will help this. Of course I've never recapped anything and wouldn't know where to start (like taking it apart).

[Justin Q]

So i got my buddy (an electrical engineer that works for the navy) to recap my unit. He also put in new connectors and a power cable (which is now grounded to the chasis). Unfortunately it has the same hiss. Any other ideas?