Apogee Ensemble: feedback/bug reporting (users only please)

[Schmacko]

In response to both a) the length of the 2 other popular Ensemble threads, and b) the digression of discussions within these 2 threads, a new thread dedicated to feedback/bug reporting by the users is necessary.

To focus this thread only on issues related to the use of the Ensemble by the users themselves, this will hopefully enable a more constructive and efficient communication between the developers and users. Users can report and compare issues, and developers can drop by to provide support or simply say "they're listening", or "working on it" <img src="http://www.gearslutz.com/board/images/smilies/thumb.gif">

So, in the event that an Apple developer would like to peruse comments by the users <img src="http://www.gearslutz.com/board/images/smilies/nu/icon5.gif">, or an Apogee employee stops by to provide support, that individual will not have to sift through pages of posts about mLan or venting frustrations (which I admit I'm guilty of) to address an actual user of the Ensemble interface.

"no news is not good news" - Schmacko Sept 15, 2006 <img src="http://www.gearslutz.com/board/images/smilies/winknudge.gif">

[Houndman]

I rarely post but as a registered Ensemble user and not an Apogee or Apple employee I thought I give my 2 cents...
Everything has worked great for me so far...even with a Beta driver not officailly supporting my setup. I use a Dual 1 gig G4 with 1.5 gig RAM, Digital Performer 4.61
and recording onto a Firewire Drive.
Recording of drums, voice, keyboards, virtual insruments and MIDI. I have done no timing tests but everything sounds good to my ears and the clients.
I also have anexternal 8 channel mic pre routed to the ensemble lightpipe inputs.
All is good there too.
Apogee employees have been marvelous to answer all of my questions as well.

[Schmacko]

good to hear, Houndman!

BTW - what model Mac are you using?

I've said it before - this interface is such a good package that it's worth it to endure the Beta phase... but not forever ;p


OK, so here's a couple feature requests for Apogee:

In the next release of Maestro, can you fix the situation where the OS X Finder temporarily suspends itself when Maestro's splash-screen comes up during lauch? It's super annoying, and makes it look like the Finder is crashing. And also, sometimes after launching Maestro for the first time after turning on the Ensemble, the software's clip indicators are illuminated. I assume this is from the hardware initialization, but if Maestro could clear all clips at launch it would save having to click clear all clips everytime.

Small suggestions

Thanks.

[Paul Lowden]

Hi, this is my first post, but I'm been lurking for a bit following the Ensemble threads. I think this is a good idea.

My major problem has been that the Ensemble occasionally - and it doesn't seem to be predictable - won't play back tunes recorded at 48K. Dead silence, although you can see the meters in Logic bouncing along as the SPL moves. It's usually possible to jump start it by loading a 44.1K tune, playing a few bars and then reloading the 48K song.

When I spoke to Leon (tech support) about it, he mentioned that there had been some reports of similar behaviour.

It was happening much less - almost not at all - with the 1.1.5 driver but it's returned now with 1.1.6. In addition, the Ensemble has completely muted itself - all lights off - on three or four occasions after start-up since I installed 1.1.6.

I'm using an intel iMac dedicated almost exclusively to Logic Pro. Other than a MOTU micro express for Midi and an external USB drive, there's no other external gear.

The last time I called Apogee, I learned that Leon is no longer there. That appears to be a real shame as the fellow I spoke to said he'd never heard of any of the issues I raised and suggested that it was either the computer (firewire problem) or a faulty Ensemble. I don't buy that at all as it works like a charm - lovely sound, really easy to use - almost all the time and there's never been any problems of any kind with songs recorded at 44.1K. I just don't think this is a hardware problem.

Anybody else experiencing problems like this?

None of this is really troubling 'cause most of the time everything works great and I'm very happy with all my hardware. But, I won't be sorry when the driver is finally out of beta.

Paul

EDIT (September 18, 2006): I repaired permissions - and there were quite a few to be repaired - and the problem seems to have disappeared. Oh, well.

[schmollywood]

Here's my problem with Ensemble right now:

I use SKYPE to record telephone conversations for a radio show every now and then.
This means selecting the interface (in this case the Ensemble) as the audio in- and output. Basically I use my studio microphone connected to the Ensemble as a Mic for SKYPE and send the audio from SKYPE (the person that I call) back into the audio Interface . The only problem is that so far this seems impossible with the current drivers . No audio is either getting in or out of SKYPE if the Ensemle is selected as in- and output. Before I used a MOTU 2403mkIII Interface and the same thing worked like a charm. I hope they will fix this issue soon.

Interesstingly even a software like AudioHijack does not let me Hijack any audio from the Ensemble so far. I can select Ensemble as the input source, but when I try to actually record audio (or hijack audio in this case) all I get is a very bad ongoing digital distortion. Try it for yourself. My routings in Maestro or Apples Audio Midi Setup do not affect any changes in this behaviour.

[mslemberger]

My ensemble has been working great untill recently since Apogee sent out that batch of updates. Im running it on a Dual Core 2gHz with 2gb RAM and using Nuendo as my DAW. After getting that update my DAW has been giving me messages that the sample rate cannot be set due to the sample clock being set to external sync. In Nuendo it is set to internal, the ensemble is set to internal, and the audiomidi setup is set to internal. I can still playback and everything so I dont know what the issue is.

Matt Lemberger

[GungaDin]

I've been experiencing a low white noise in the headphone monitors. It sounds like a soft hiss. I talked to Apogee support about this and while they said they had heard of this before. I just wanted to post it here, as well, and see how many other owners noticed this.

The noise is the same even with the monitor volume at zero and is the same in both jacks. You really notice it when you unplug the headphones and hear true[r] silence.

It is FAR from making the Ensemble unusable but does get in the way of critical listening for for noise reduction and noise floor.

Otherwise I've been liking the Ensemble QUITE A BIT. It sounds great (a huge step up from my Edirol FA-101 box), I love the software integration, and I like the way the preamps and instrument direct ins sound.

[GCL]

When I spoke with Leon last month he said noise in the headphones was a known issue (at least with some units) and that they're working on it.

[Marrone]

I also experience hiss in my genelecs 8040's even when the volume knob is totally down. I hope Apogee resolves this issue because that would make the ensemble working completly perfect for me.

[lark830]

i have the hiss also in my headphones at 44k. when i switch to 48k, noise level goes down. but, when i switch it to 96k, it's dead quiet! love the unit though.

[GCL]

Originally Posted by Marrone

I also experience hiss in my genelecs 8040's even when the volume knob is totally down. I hope Apogee resolves this issue because that would make the ensemble working completly perfect for me.

Right, in addition to the headphone hiss, the amount hiss in the Ensemble coming out of the main outs going to my speakers (Genelec 1037Bs) sounds like the unit is turned way up. This happens even at very low volume or when totally off. Very disconcerting to hear this much hiss. Hope they resolve this too, otherwise I also love most everything else about the unit. Switching to 96K has no effect on the main outs hiss though.

[flwehr]

Originally Posted by GCL

Right, in addition to the headphone hiss, the amount hiss in the Ensemble coming out of the main outs going to my speakers (Genelec 1037Bs) sounds like the unit is turned way up. This happens even at very low volume or when totally off. Very disconcerting to hear this much hiss. Hope they resolve this too, otherwise I also love most everything else about the unit. Switching to 96K has no effect on the main outs hiss though.

This must be a problem with certain units. One of the first things I did when I hooked mine up was crank the volume all the way through my HR824s with no signal. It is absolutely dead quiet - both main and headphone outs, cannot even tell if it power is on. Hope there is an fix for you guys - that would bug me as well.

On a related note, has anyone figured out whether it is possible in Maestro to route the same signal to more than one set of outputs? I have tried using the output matrix, because I want to run outputs 3-4 to a headphone amp. AFAICT it will not route the same stereo pair to 1/2 and 3/4.

[GCL]

Originally Posted by flwehr

This must be a problem with certain units. One of the first things I did when I hooked mine up was crank the volume all the way through my HR824s with no signal. It is absolutely dead quiet - both main and headphone outs, cannot even tell if it power is on. Hope there is an fix for you guys - that would bug me as well.

How long have you had your unit? Can you PM your serial number? Thanks

[Drumhum]

My penny worth.....

I have an ensemble with a MacPro 266GHz, 2GB Ram, 2 extra sata int drives. I also have a focusrite liquidmix.

As Apogee warns, the focusrite LM and Ensemble don't get on too well if on the same bus - often one works but not the other. I could cure this by switching the ensemble/LM off/on and generally playing about with them. once both are working its pretty stable. I did notice some issues when using more than about 8 (stereo) LM plugins. I assumed this was down to squeezing too much data down one f/w bus.

I bought a Siig 2-port firewire 400 card and things are much better. I can run all LM plugs (ie 32 mono's) now without trouble and things just seem to work better, without the fighting between devices as mentioned before. I also note in the LM manual that Focusrite recommend having the LM on its own, separate f/w buss anyway, as it is pretty bandwidth heavy (potentially 32 mono audio tracks going in and 32 audio tracks going out - thats 64 mono audio tracks!).

Sometimes I can loose the Ensemble audio o/p but I find quiting the application I'm using and switching the Ensemble off for 30seconds and back on sorts things out. I have found that a 30 second wait is ~essential~. Once the Ensemble is working it never stops. I find it only fails when launching new software, or perhaps switching to new settings but the issue is hardly noticable since buying the f/w card.

I find the Ensemble works better on the Apple port rather than the siig but that might be just "in my head" and not really true ;-)

I have submitted one tech query to Apogee regarding Maestro but I never had a reply :-(
I was wondering about the check-option called "Disable Loop Sync". I thought I'd read in the manual this must be checked if using multiple Ensemble units or external master clocks - but leave unchecked if you just have the one Ensemble (like me). I cannot un-check this option either in Maestro or Logic - it just remains checked. Can anyone shed light on this?

I was also asking for documentation for maestro. There seems no info on how to use the Output routing page and I find the routing matrix confusing (help!). why are there two mixers A and B? I'm a bit confused about this side.

Even with a few "issues" I don't regret buying it. In fact its the best thing I've ever bought for my computer/music - I love it!

[GungaDin]

Originally Posted by flwehr

One of the first things I did when I hooked mine up was crank the volume all the way through my HR824s with no signal. It is absolutely dead quiet - both main and headphone outs, cannot even tell if it power is on.

The noise seems to have nothing to do with the volume settings on the Ensemble itself. I.E., the hiss in the main and headphone outs is apparent and the same with the Ensemble volume all the way off or on.

I have the Mackie HR824s as well and just tried turning the input sensitivity on the speakers all the way up and NOW I can hear the same hiss through the mains and headphones. If you don't mind flwehr, would you give this a try as well? Also, you don't hear any hiss in the headphones?

I also just tried switching sample rates. The hiss grew quieter at 96k but did not disappear completely.

thanks to all,
Andy

[GCL]

Does anyone know if the Ensemble will work with Mac OS 10.4.8?

Apogee -- no word from you guys on this? Maybe I missed a post by them.

[Schmacko]

Yes. Although I can't recall if I read it here or on the Apple forums, but I think one user reported having to re-install the Ensemble driver after updating.

[flwehr]

Originally Posted by GCL

Does anyone know if the Ensemble will work with Mac OS 10.4.8?

Apogee -- no word from you guys on this? Maybe I missed a post by them.

No problem here. Did not have to reinstall anything.

[cowgs]

Hello all
My first post regarding Ensemble. I finally bought one after reading everything I could find on Ensemble since it's first preview earlier this year. Understanding that the second generation firewire driver was still in beta, I was nonetheless confident that Ensemble would function reliably.
Well, running under the new beta driver, I'm experiencing lots of time where Logic Pro 7.2x and/or just Coreaudio (such as when using iTunes) is losing connectivity with Ensemble (even though audio is coming into Ensemble as is being shown by Maestro). Ensemble is showing up in the AMS program, in the Systems Preferences Sound window, Maestro, and/or in the Logic Pro control panel. But, Ensemble will suddenly decide to not output audio. A few times, if I shutdown Maestro, then iTunes will output audio through Ensemble.
The other rather troubling aspect of Ensemble is the snap-crackle-pop dance the box goes through with power-up. I had no idea those crackles would be so varied and long lasting -- maybe five seconds or so. Wow, I've been using various firewire audio products from MOTU, as well as MLAN ones from Yamaha, for a number of years and I've never encountered such instability and pops out of a box.
Hope Apogee gets Ensemble working better soon or I may need to stick with Protools HD.
Cheers,
Craig

[GCL]

Originally Posted by cowgs

The other rather troubling aspect of Ensemble is the snap-crackle-pop dance the box goes through with power-up.

Yes, this is super-annoying. It's just tough to always have to power up your Mac first, then the Ensemble, then your speakers. MOTU gear never had these issues. Still love it though, can't wait for Apogee/Apple to fix all this stuff, if they can (I have some doubts at this point).

[henrybob]

Or some decent up-to-date information, at least .

[cowgs]

It's really hard to tell for certain if there's a notiicable improvement in sound quality coming out of my Mackie 824s using the Ensemble. Previously, I was running a MOTU Traveler (bullet proof stable -- no pops or dropping off line) and a digidesign 96i/o with Protools. Now with the Ensemble, I really do think I'm hearing the mix more clearly and it seems more open.

[chanigelgor]

hi..

i'm running my ensemble with a 2ghz macbook, 2 gig of ram, logic pro 7.2.3, mac os 10.4.8.

weirdest problem for me is with maestro... none of the audio in any of the maestro mixer hits the main output channel.. i've done exactly what apogee have told me, and still nothing.. incredibly annoying, as it means i have to use the "software monitoring" option in logic, with the buffer set super low, which causes all sorts of problems.

just today, channel 4, when set at either mic or line input, is creating it's own random noise.. first noticed it when the input meter was flashing on the ensemble for input 4. very strange. nothing even plugged into the unit, and it was still doing it.

anyone experienced anything like this?

have to say, logic has been super buggy as well... not sure if it is because of the ensemble, but some functions are taking a ridiculously long time to happen : lots of spinning beachball of death happening.

going to get my laptop looked at also.. it falls into the batch of "random shutdown" macbooks.. possible dodgy heat sink and logic board.. maybe that will sort some of this out.. or perhaps a working firewire audio driver?

[Drumhum]

chanigelgor,

I've experienced some random noise but only with a mic input and it seemed to come from one mic: akg 414. I just assumed the issue was with the mic as I had an Earthworks mic on ch2 that was fine. I noticed that the 414 settled down to normal after a little while. I've never had a problem with the mic before so now I'm wondering, from what you've said, if it is in fact an ensemble issue (with phantom power?).

I used the 414 the other day and all was well then.

I too have problems with Maestro. I just don't get it at all. I've not spent a lot of time working on it but I'm pretty experienced and can usually just get on with such things. I don't get why there is two mixers, A and B. There are other confusing aspects too! Is there no documentation for this software anywhere? If anyone wants to give a basic explanation as to what you can do with maestro and how, I'm all ears!

having said all this I'm very happy with my ensemble and would still recommend it to anyone with similar needs to mine.

[sourcekode]

I don't get why there is two mixers, A and B. There are other confusing aspects too! Is there no documentation for this software anywhere? If anyone wants to give a basic explanation as to what you can do with maestro and how, I'm all ears!

yes please... i would really like to understand this better myself.

[STILL]

Sounds like I'm gonna wait on this thing, this is not encouraging reading...

[ALL*MYTEE]

I don't love the "snap, crackle, pop" mentioned above and sometimes the knobs do little wierd things when you try to turn them down (like you need to turn them down twice), but all in all I've been very happy with mine.

Once in a while it will crash my other programs when I boot it up (with computer already on) but I may not be doing that properly, I'm not really a manual reader.

I love the way it interfaces with Logic. Maestro is very easy to use as well. Been very happy with my purchase.

YMMV

[chanigelgor]

drumhum..

the noise and meter activity on channel 4 of the ensemble was occuring with NOTHING plugged into the unit (other than my monitors).. very strange..

and i agree.. i can not get maestro to work at all. i've worked with DAW's for over 7 years, and am not ashamed to say that i'm not a novice when it comes to audio software..

but i can not get the thing to work.. none of the audio from any of the channels will hit the main output channel.. and i've followed apogee's tech support on this to the book..

all i can hope for is the final driver to resolve these issues, if not, i'll be selling the unit and looking for another option.. disappointing, as i think potentially the ensemble could be a fantastic unit.. when it works.

i just want to get back to making music and stop thinking about this rubbish!

[Drumhum]

chanigelgor,

"the noise and meter activity on channel 4 of the ensemble was occuring with NOTHING plugged into the unit (other than my monitors)"

Well that makes me feel a bit better actually! - sort of. I only had the problem with my 414 mic plugged in and I suspect it was indeed a mic issue and not the ensemble. I still have the hassle of a bad mic though and you still have your problem :-(

I do wonder if you have a "bad" ensemble. I suggest you consider getting it replaced by your dealer.

re maestro...
I have no reason to think my maestro doesn't work. I just find it confusing. I've just tried routing an input direct to an output, all worked fine. I used an electric mandolin to Hi-Z i/p 1 and it sounded fine through my studio monitors, with no delay etc. Just as it should.

Why is each channel labeled as "Track 1", "track 2" etc. Ok I'm splitting hairs here but "track" and "channel" are two different things.

Can anyone tell me why there is a mixer A ~and~ a mixer B?

What is "loop sync"?

Why would I want to disable it (as in check the box next to "disable loop sync")?

The manual says check "disable loop sync" if you are using an external master clock. I am using nothing like this and only have one Ensemble. Why can't I uncheck the option? It just stays checked no matter how much I click on it!

I know I've asked before but if anyone is reading this and knows of any documentation for the Maestro software, please tell me where I can get it. Yes, I could blindly play with it for a couple of hours to get to know it, but I'm one of those odd folk who likes to read manuals too!

(it would be really great to get a response form Apogee here - especially considering my similar requests to their tech support were completely ignored)

[Schmacko]

It's been a while since the last update, but now this first release candidate seems to make a big jump forward. Some of the release notes:

- firmware update to correct pops and clicks
- up to 192k sample rate support
- improved latency
- external FW HD's supported

- new Apogee update utility for firmware/driver updates (must be connected to the internet for future updates <img src="http://www.gearslutz.com/board/images/smilies/errrr.gif">